Small Observations General Thread (things not worth separate threads)

[AriochIV]

I'm not sure why you guys think this is such a problem. Although borders can expand past the 3-tile limit in Civ6, you can't manually buy tiles past this limit and so this is not a valid way to secure an important resource. Civ7 will have Towns which you can specialize, which seem ideally suited to securing a resource.

The devs have said that the goal of Civ7 is not to cover every tile on the map with your cities, so there might be unclaimed tiles in between your cities, and this shouldn't be a problem.

 

[stealth_nsk]

I'm not sure why you guys think this is such a problem. Although borders can expand past the 3-tile limit in Civ6, you can't manually buy tiles past this limit and so this is not a valid way to secure an important resource. Civ7 will have Towns which you can specialize, which seem ideally suited to securing a resource.

Yes, towns are possible solution

 

[Evolena]

Do we know if resources also gives bonus yields to the tile they are in now that they also are assigned through resource management? As in, does a plain with a horse has more yields than a plain without one?

That seems to be the case in the Antiquity Stream. For example, a flat Grassland floodplain is 1 food, but with Cotton there is also 1 gold (not counting the +1 happiness as that one seems to come from appeal), or a rough plains is 1 production, but also 1 science with Gypsum.

 

[queenpea]

I'm not sure why you guys think this is such a problem. Although borders can expand past the 3-tile limit in Civ6, you can't manually buy tiles past this limit and so this is not a valid way to secure an important resource. Civ7 will have Towns which you can specialize, which seem ideally suited to securing a resource.

The devs have said that the goal of Civ7 is not to cover every tile on the map with your cities, so there might be unclaimed tiles in between your cities, and this shouldn't be a problem.

It may not be a huge problem, but it’s certainly a small observation.

In my Civ VI games I always have tiles between my cities which are in my empire but are unworkable as they are outside of the 3 tile limit. IF the same can be true in VII, and all improvements are made by cities as rural districts, then that is a significant change.

Also, it means that improvements like the Great Wall cannot be built outside of the three tile limit.

 

[Elhoim]

At very least, it is the same as civ 6, whether that makes you relieved or more worried.

Hopefully we can get a 4 tile mod like we just did with 6.

 

[AriochIV]

It may not be a huge problem, but it’s certainly a small observation.

In my Civ VI games I always have tiles between my cities which are in my empire but are unworkable as they are outside of the 3 tile limit. IF the same can be true in VII, and all improvements are made by cities as rural districts, then that is a significant change.

Also, it means that improvements like the Great Wall cannot be built outside of the three tile limit.

But how does that change gameplay? These extra tiles are only claimed very late in the game; the only benefit is that they may claim strategic or luxury resources; you don't get any yields from them. Building improvements like the Great Wall outside the 3-tile limit doesn't benefit you, since the only real value of the Great Wall is the tile yields.

One nice thing about Civ7 is that the buildings and unique improvements don't overwrite the tiles yields of normal improvements, so you can place them without worrying about the lost opportunity cost, which was a major problem with unique improvements like the Great Wall in Civ6 and earlier.

 

[stealth_nsk]

But how does that change gameplay? These extra tiles are only claimed very late in the game; the only benefit is that they may claim strategic or luxury resources; you don't get any yields from them. Building improvements like the Great Wall outside the 3-tile limit doesn't benefit you, since the only real value of the Great Wall is the tile yields.

One nice thing about Civ7 is that the buildings and unique improvements don't overwrite the tiles yields of normal improvements, so you can place them without worrying about the lost opportunity cost, which was a major problem with unique improvements like the Great Wall in Civ6 and earlier.

Actually in Civ6 you could get them quite early. Once you see a resource you can't reach, you can just buy available tiles from nearest city and it starts grabbing the most valuable tiles outside its reach.

 

[AriochIV]

Actually in Civ6 you could get them quite early. Once you see a resource you can't reach, you can just buy available tiles from nearest city and it starts grabbing the most valuable tiles outside its reach.

That's not my experience, but regardless: if that resource is important, are you really going to trust that the RNG claims that tile before some other civ plops a city there?

 

[stealth_nsk]

That's not my experience, but regardless: if that resource is important, are you really going to trust that the RNG claims that tile before some other civ plops a city there?

If this tile is in between your cities, that's not the problem. Any newly settled city will be blown away by low loyalty fairly quickly.

 

[queenpea]

But how does that change gameplay? These extra tiles are only claimed very late in the game; the only benefit is that they may claim strategic or luxury resources; you don't get any yields from them. Building improvements like the Great Wall outside the 3-tile limit doesn't benefit you, since the only real value of the Great Wall is the tile yields.

One nice thing about Civ7 is that the buildings and unique improvements don't overwrite the tiles yields of normal improvements, so you can place them without worrying about the lost opportunity cost, which was a major problem with unique improvements like the Great Wall in Civ6 and earlier.

It affects my ability to build a great big beautiful Great Wall and to gaze upon it with a smug sense of accomplishment.

On a more serious note, with the Great Wall, which has a defensive bonus, it means that you can no longer benefit from this bonus outside of the three tile limit. Also, slight nerf to its adjacency bonus if the wall must find an end point in the three tile limit.

 

[AriochIV]

What this discussion hasn't mentioned yet is specialists: how do they work? If they're strong enough, we might prefer them to rural districts anyway, and so having lots of overlap may be less of a problem (the cities being fed by towns "working the land" further away)

You can place population as specialists in an urban district instead of creating a new rural district. Whether this will make sense will depend on the yields and bonuses you have.

 

[AriochIV]

Are we capped as to how many specialists per urban districts? What their yields are? In the past generating great people was a major attraction for specialists, but that's gone now...

Specialists add 2 Science and 2 Culture and cost 2 Food and 2 Happiness. Some civs and leaders will get bonuses (Confucius gets extra Science). There can only be 1 specialist per urban tile.

 

[Josephias]

There can only be 1 specialist per tile.

Afaik (might be wrong, but), this specialist cap is only applicable in Antiquity age. We expect options to grow “taller” (i.e. more specialists per tile) as ages evolve.

 

[AriochIV]

Rules may change in later Ages, but that's wide open speculation at this point.

 

[Krikkit1]

Only one type of specialist, and that it doesn't increase population working density is kind of a disappointment. And... boring? Seems like a big step back from Civ6, which itself made them less important than in 5 or 4. This desire to put everything on the map definitely harms the more abstract aspects of economic management.

I think that specialist output May (at least in later ages) depend on what tile you are putting them on.
And the possibility of increasing the number of specialists on a tile.

I could easily see a Factory allowing 20-30 “specialists” to be put on it. Where each one only has production output (and that production output is increased by adjacent or other buildings)

 

[Evolena]

I think the specialist output enhances the buildings adjacency?

 

[Krikkit1]

Well, maybe. I'd rather it depended on buildings than terrain - surely the whole point of urbanism is to render the natural environment irrelevant? I'd certainly be disappointed if the modern era didn't come with a stark increase in population density. Now I think about it, maybe it would even be better more "realistic" (that horrible word) of modern districts and the associated urban sprawl was purely a modern era thing.

Specialists are put in building tiles. so the "terrain" would be what buildings are there.

 

[Krikkit1]

Well, maybe. I'd rather it depended on buildings than terrain - surely the whole point of urbanism is to render the natural environment irrelevant? I'd certainly be disappointed if the modern era didn't come with a stark increase in population density. Now I think about it, maybe it would even be better more "realistic" (that horrible word) of modern districts and the associated urban sprawl was purely a modern era thing.

I think the specialist output enhances the buildings adjacency?

Specialists are put in building tiles. so the "terrain" would be what buildings are there.

And so far no evidence that specialists enhance/interact with buildings. Although they probably should... and hopefully later versions will.
(I could see it starting in Era 2... specialists don't give the generic 2 sci 2 culture, but output depending on the buildings of the tile they are assigned to.

 

[Evolena]

Antiquity Stream, 1h02'40 and at the end of the explanation "yeah they boost your adjacencies"

 

[sTAPler27]

This might well be the way to go, although the option of abandoning the 'homeland' for the colony seems a bit like 'doubling down' on the Civ Switching mechanic. That might be something to add in a DLC - along with making several Modern Age Civs available as Post Colonial Civs - like perhaps this being an option for America, Canada, Australia, Brazil, Philippines - all the Civs that have been controversial in the past because of their 'short histories' would fit naturally into this.

The rest of it, if they haven't already contemplated this, would I think fit right in to the declared basics of the middle Age: Exploration, with the attendant, and somewhat dangerous, colony-planting and Trade exploitation.

I'd prefer those lost colonies to become their own independent people. But the ability to move the seat of your government wouldn't be the most farfetched, look at Brazil