MilesBeyond
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2011
- Messages
- 446
This is something I've been wondering recently - how much do people, on average, use espionage? Is it commonly overlooked? Or an integral part of the game?
So, How Much Do You Use Espionage? Take 2
- Thread starter MilesBeyond
- Start date
Lennier
Emperor
Although the espionage system in BTS is better than any previous version of Civ, I usually just do counter-espionage. Sometimes I do a few revolts. Rarely do I have enough EPs to steal techs unless I'm in a winning position anyways.
AW Arcaeca
Deus Vult
The most I usually do anything remotely related to espionage is building courthouses and, if other people seem keen on using it against me, place a spy in each city for counter-espionage. But that's the extent of my care; it's not an integral part of the game to me.
TheMulattoMaker
Dictator of RF
I voted for "defensive", but I'd actually place myself somewhere between that and aggressive. I'll generally have a dedicated EP city by mid-game- usually my first GSpy builds SY there, after that I settle GSpies in the city- but mostly I use passive espionage. Only time I run a lot of active missions is if it'll help me win a war much more quickly.
Sanguivorant
Submitter
I use espionage in perhaps 30% of my games. Usually, I can complete a game without training one spy.
I usually build spies if I notice a lot of espionage activity happening to me. Just one improvement destroyed is not too bad, but if it is happening frequently, I begin to focus on my espionage. I use it as a result of reaction, not necessarily because it is within my plan.
I mostly use espionage defensively, ensuring that major points in my empire have some sort of "spy border checks", especially between mountain passes.
The main aggressive use of a spy is the city revolt, which lowers city defences.
In a city with 100% defence, causing a city revolt reduces the siege from ten turns to simply one turn. The trick is that the assault has to succeed the first time, though.
I usually build spies if I notice a lot of espionage activity happening to me. Just one improvement destroyed is not too bad, but if it is happening frequently, I begin to focus on my espionage. I use it as a result of reaction, not necessarily because it is within my plan.
I mostly use espionage defensively, ensuring that major points in my empire have some sort of "spy border checks", especially between mountain passes.
The main aggressive use of a spy is the city revolt, which lowers city defences.
In a city with 100% defence, causing a city revolt reduces the siege from ten turns to simply one turn. The trick is that the assault has to succeed the first time, though.
Drakarska
Epic Dadness
Passive - aggressive here as well. About the only time I'll go agg is when I need harass an enemy city just before a siege, or if I'm targeting a specialist city.
Robert FIN
Emperor
I'm usually knda passive but in the late game some guys like SB are getting pretty dangerous if I try to build the spaceshuttle.. Then I train spies for my border cities for defence. I should be more aggressive with espionage. Revolts are super-powerful IMO 
! (Voted for defensive.)
! (Voted for defensive.)I voted aggressive, though this is certainly not true of every game, sometimes I don't use spies at all.
One great improvement to the epionage system is the advanced espionage feature included in mods like AND:RoM, allowing spies to gain experiene for successful missions and choose among various useful promotions. This makes active espionage a lot more interesting and fun.
One great improvement to the epionage system is the advanced espionage feature included in mods like AND:RoM, allowing spies to gain experiene for successful missions and choose among various useful promotions. This makes active espionage a lot more interesting and fun.
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2008
- Messages
- 27,995
EP is probably the most broken catch-up mechanic available if you capture a lot of land.
Flood a city in culture, try to get the religion bonus, maybe even move the palace if not relying on bureaucracy. Drop that cost down and suddenly "teching" is a joke. My greatest comeback ever involved spies. I got pottery/writing in a peace deal at 1000 AD (yes ad) on immortal, and still won the game. Much of the interim was abusing a city gifted to a solid tech AI (Victoria) flooded with culture and near my capitol. The theft rate was obnoxious.
Flood a city in culture, try to get the religion bonus, maybe even move the palace if not relying on bureaucracy. Drop that cost down and suddenly "teching" is a joke. My greatest comeback ever involved spies. I got pottery/writing in a peace deal at 1000 AD (yes ad) on immortal, and still won the game. Much of the interim was abusing a city gifted to a solid tech AI (Victoria) flooded with culture and near my capitol. The theft rate was obnoxious.
@TheMeInTeam, If you use espionage, you shalt be in nationalism. A lot cheaper esp when inflation kicks in, and gets hefty boost - plus you can keep drafting and teching. Once you have constitution, slavery and enough land the espionage is very solid (even more after communism).
AdamCrock
Polish Pirate
Spies are great for sieges, not only they tear down walls but thay can also get You city revolt ! ^^
Rusty Edge
Deity
I guess I got into spying from playing mods. History in the Making for example, added a cunning trait which gave spying benefits. This made Mao a menace. He would take out my strategic resources, steal my techs, etc. War without war.
I now tend to use spying as a way of handicapping myself, diverting resources from research (I prefer the game at tech parity. Wars are more interesting, and tech races can be exciting. ), protecting myself from sabotage. It also gives me some awareness that I might have if I were spreading a religion.
Sometimes I use spies as a siege substitute with a mounted invasion. That's the most fun.
I now tend to use spying as a way of handicapping myself, diverting resources from research (I prefer the game at tech parity. Wars are more interesting, and tech races can be exciting. ), protecting myself from sabotage. It also gives me some awareness that I might have if I were spreading a religion.
Sometimes I use spies as a siege substitute with a mounted invasion. That's the most fun.
plastiqe
Grinch
From the outset, I pick one neighbour and set all espionage against them. By the time I'm ready to build spies I'll have enough EP's to start stealing techs or droping city defenses. If I'm planning to keep the civ around for a while I'll do spread cultures and set up a really good target city.
Great Wall, if I can get it, is fantastic for an early Great Spy. Late game espionage is awesome for a large empire. Nationalism + 3 spy buildings + specialists are easy to set up in any city. Castles not so much since they obsolete so quickly; but sometimes they're worth it, like if I have a couple islands and stone.
I do play K-Mod though which changes a couple things. Culture is different and aggressive and protective get cheaper jails and intelligence agencies to name a few. I think if I could get through an entire game using espionage "Passively" it would be time to move up a difficulty level.
Great Wall, if I can get it, is fantastic for an early Great Spy. Late game espionage is awesome for a large empire. Nationalism + 3 spy buildings + specialists are easy to set up in any city. Castles not so much since they obsolete so quickly; but sometimes they're worth it, like if I have a couple islands and stone.
I do play K-Mod though which changes a couple things. Culture is different and aggressive and protective get cheaper jails and intelligence agencies to name a few. I think if I could get through an entire game using espionage "Passively" it would be time to move up a difficulty level.
plasmacannon
Emperor
Passively - Demographics are great to have on other Civs, but that's as far as my interest goes.
That pretty much sums up most (like 95%) of my games.
Occasionally, I do the other stuff, but so far that's been a rare addition.
I'm not into dropping research to gain spy points.
That pretty much sums up most (like 95%) of my games.
Occasionally, I do the other stuff, but so far that's been a rare addition.
I'm not into dropping research to gain spy points.
lindsay40k
Emperor
I don't think averages apply to this. My modal espionage is to just produce enough that I'm not a soft target for thieving, and maybe drop a spy here and there for counter. I sometimes produce more so as to incite revolts. And I enjoy a full espionage economy from time to time.
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