So let's talk about Rome then...

[AsparustheSaiyan]

So Rome used to be somewhat of a powerhouse back in R&F and Vanilla with legion rushes, Magnus and the ease at which they can expand made them a dominant force in single and multiplayer.

However, thanks to the new strategic resource requirement Rome seems to have been knocked off their pedestal so to speak. Legion rushes are not so easy to pull of now.

I wanted to ask the community what you all think of them now.

 

[DWilson]

What I like about Rome is how they make my early infrastructure obsession much less limiting, enabling me to more rapidly build cities without sacrificing much in the process. This leads to a snowballing effect, as the added immediate strength progressively allows me to achieve everything slightly earlier and more easily.

Legions are cool, but for me they have always been secondary for Rome.

Additionally, the Toa nerf has given back some of the Legion's relative strength (as it previously completely outclassed the Legion in essentially every way, whereas now it only narrowly beats it- which is more roughly balanced, if still not great). The iron requirement isn't fun, but it's manageable, and does again yield a quite powerful unit for the cost.

 

[Kwami]

What I like about Rome is how they make my early infrastructure obsession much less limiting, enabling me to more rapidly build cities without sacrificing much in the process. This leads to a snowballing effect, as the added immediate strength progressively allows me to achieve everything slightly earlier and more easily.

Legions are cool, but for me they have always been secondary for Rome.

Additionally, the Toa nerf has given back some of the Legion's relative strength (as it previously completely outclassed the Legion in essentially every way). The iron requirement isn't fun, but it's manageable, and does again yield a quite powerful unit for the cost.

The Toa still outclasses the Legion in almost every way. It has 1 more Strength after considering the -5 debuff, it builds a better fort, and it doesn't require Iron. The only downside to the Toa is that it's harder to unlock.

 

[Socrates99]

Rome's free roads and monuments alone make them pretty strong with or without the legion so it's hard to consider them as weakened much. Personally I like the new resource system. Curbs rushes a bit and makes "strategics" actually feel strategic. If anything it might have bumped Rome down from one of the top civs to just a "pretty strong" civ. S tier to A tier imo.

 

[DWilson]

The Toa still outclasses the Legion in almost every way. It has 1 more Strength after considering the -5 debuff, it builds a better fort, and it doesn't require Iron. The only downside to the Toa is that it's harder to unlock.

Edited my original comment for clarity.

 

[BarbarianHunter]

I actually like Rome more now than I did previously. Production and gold, is production and gold (it doesn't matter where you get it). I generally buy more monuments than not, and if I don't have to buy a monument then I can bank the gold for a later time and buy a encampment stable building, a horse unit or heavy chariot. I generally don't much care for melee class units due to ZOC issues so the strategics for a legion rush is no big deal. The courser upgrade makes horses competitive over the long run with legions as well. I generally find myself prone to long wars in the early game, so knocking out a horse every other turn until a critical mass can be reached is no big deal. I also much prefer the classical republic legacy card to the oligarchy legacy. The insta-monument with each city (using the +50% settler card) gets me more culture for Pingala's 1st 2 promotions (Conosseur), which gets me more culture for the 3rd promotion (Researcher). The roads give horses a great movement rate over otherwise treacherous terrain. All a great synergy! For my playstyle at least.

I went from not understanding what all the hype was around Rome to it being one of my favorite civs.

 

[Brutus2]

1. Free Monuments - put Pingala in Rome, build or capture a few cities and you get governments, policies, envoys and wonders unlocked super fast. Use the production / gold you would have spent on monuments to build / buy / upgrade units (or whatever) instead.

2. Free Roads - allows traders to be used for building roads to other civs in preparation for invasion rather than being tied up making internal roads. Also, moving workers around the empire is much easier and extends the reach of trade routes.

3. Legion- great at taking cities but also can pillage AND repair. Send 4-5 Legion, pillage every improvement, capture city, repair everything in one turn, move on to next city.

 

[AsparustheSaiyan]

I actually like Rome more now than I did previously. Production and gold, is production and gold (it doesn't matter where you get it). I generally buy more monuments than not, and if I don't have to buy a monument then I can bank the gold for a later time and buy a encampment stable building, a horse unit or heavy chariot. I generally don't much care for melee class units due to ZOC issues so the strategics for a legion rush is no big deal. The courser upgrade makes horses competitive over the long run with legions as well. I generally find myself prone to long wars in the early game, so knocking out a horse every other turn until a critical mass can be reached is no big deal. I also much prefer the classical republic legacy card to the oligarchy legacy. The insta-monument with each city (using the +50% settler card) gets me more culture for Pingala's 1st 2 promotions (Conosseur), which gets me more culture for the 3rd promotion (Researcher). The roads give horses a great movement rate over otherwise treacherous terrain. All a great synergy! For my playstyle at least.

I went from not understanding what all the hype was around Rome to it being one of my favorite civs.

I didn't even consider pingala with Rome! Considering pingalas buff that can actually synergize well with Rome pretty well... I will have to try this. I don't think it will make them S tier but maybe top of the A tier if it's as good as I'm thinking it is.

 

[whacker]

If you want to legion rush promote magnus to black market(4 iron/legion). All you need is a source of iron, prebuild a settler when you discover it in case you have none in your capital, then beeline for iron working. The great thing about legions is that they have 1 chop each, which allows Rome to chop legions with legions.

I think legions are at least as good as toa, because:
1. 110(legion) vs 120 production, but the chop is worh 1/3 builder, which is around 20 production in the early game. That actually makes the legion significantly cheaper.
2. The toa -5 KS trait does not work against range attacks that are more than one tile away and it does not apply against cities.
3. Chopping is the best way to make an early game rush work, yet the maori want to keep their woods for the production bonus and can not harvest stone/deer.
4. As mentioned before by Brutus2 and Kwami, legions can repair pillaged tiles and the tech path is better.

Toa`s are obviously better if you have no iron available at all

 

[BarbarianHunter]

I don't know about using legions to chop and repair. A single charge builder can repair an entire city. A 4-move cav unit is already arriving at the next city while a 2-move legion is repairing or chopping. Then the legion has to get to the next city.

 

[Kwami]

The Toa also has a build charge and can chop, right? But, the Maori don't want to chop, so maybe that doesn't matter much.

 

[BarbarianHunter]

Another possibility for Rome is using two Legions charges to build forts for the ballistics boost. You could skip light cavalry, get to feudalism quick, hit the stirrups boost upgrade to knights, and conquer.

Normally you would have to research siege tactics on the bottom of the tree, but with Legions I think you can be line ballistics. That's of course if the Roman forts count for the ballistics boost.

 

[Jaybe]

Another possibility for Rome is using two Legions charges to build forts for the ballistics boost. You could skip light cavalry, get to feudalism quick, hit the stirrups boost upgrade to knights, and conquer.

Normally you would have to research siege tactics on the bottom of the tree, but with Legions I think you can be line ballistics. That's of course if the Roman forts count for the ballistics boost.

They do not. The eureka requires using military-engineers to build the forts.

 

[Phoenix1595]

To me, Rome has always been the all-around solid Civ that was good for players to start out with in order to learn game mechanics. Even with the new resource requirements, that has not changed— Rome still shows players the ropes on resource management.

If you think about, iron is one of the better resources to learn the new mechanics with, as iron is much more prevalent than later resources. Plus, it does not take long to accumulate enough iron between build times/gold accumulation to build a legion force. Remember, Rome’s legions weren’t built in a day...

 

[OmegaDestroyer]

I never felt it was the Legions that made Rome shine so much as the free roads and buildings. It allows for incredible expansion and remains useful the entire game.

 

[Kmart_Elvis]

I never felt it was the Legions that made Rome shine so much as the free roads and buildings. It allows for incredible expansion and remains useful the entire game.

There's a reason why Trajan (free monuments) won Best Leader Ability on the elimination thread we had here. Yes, Legion rushes are nice but not much different in play from Alexander, Cyrus, or doing any other classical era rush. What sets Rome apart and makes them Roman are the monuments and roads. They fly through the civics tree and can get their cities up and running fast. Baths also give them versatility on where to settle. You don't have to worry about terrain types or adjaencies as much as other civs which are more dependent on them. Just settle like crazy, no matter the map.

 

[Sostratus]

1. Free Monuments - put Pingala in Rome, build or capture a few cities and you get governments, policies, envoys and wonders unlocked super fast. Use the production / gold you would have spent on monuments to build / buy / upgrade units (or whatever) instead.

People underestimate the power of free. Civ5's 4 city tradition meta was based on two things: National college rush & tradition gave you free things. Rome basically has one of the best tradition policies for all their cities!

If you want to legion rush promote magnus to black market(4 iron/legion).

I think black marketeer is super overlooked. It's amazing. One iron mine means 2 turn legions if you're iron gated. You really can't outproduce that limit. And then you can capture more iron mines to solve your problem. And the legion's higher base strength helps your city defense ratings.

Also, low key, the Bath is super strong because it means you can get boosts to normal cities and you can get awkward spots (like that one tile off the oasis uber petra site, or something) up and running super fast with the half build cost. So flexible to be able to build one tile off the water source.

 

[Jkchart]

Rome is fantastic.

Free roads = easier transport.

Free trading posts = easier trade range extension.

Extra gold from trading posts = extra gold!

Free monuments? FREE MONUMENTS! Extra culture and loyalty without extra work.

Legion is a great unique unit.

Bath is a huge improvement over the aqueduct and always worth building (AND CHEAP).

Rome is great!!!

 

[Bibor]

The power of Rome's free monuments and free roads become apparent when you start a game with another civ after getting used to Rome. The fast land-grab, early civics and the ability to reinforce the front line quickly requires only proper unit building management, and takes the burden off half the early game logistics, especially if you start in mountaneous/hilly terrain. The bath is also quite interesting.
As others have said, Rome has no gimmicks, but will always be a solid choice. Legions are just a bonus.

 

[Tabarnak]

Early bonuses>Late bonuses(or must build X to activate Y)

Rome is one of them.