So, PieDiePie said the n-word.

[danjuno]

I'm not giving him a free pass, I'm saying his behavior is more likely to be realistically ascribed to juvenility as to being an actual brown-shirt.

 

[Ryika]

I don't recall a last per se. Google PieDiePie and Disney.

The whole thing about PewDiePie and Disney is built on a total of four videos.

- 2 videos where he cut in Nazi footage randomly for comedic effect based on the absurdity of it being there
- 1 video where he reacted to being called out for that kind of humor as an actual Nazi by several media outlets by pretending to watch Nazi footage as a brownshirt and enjoying it (which is where the above screenshot is from), a video that then ironically was later used as "evidence" by several outlets to again make him seem like a genuine Nazi after the WSJ had showed it to attack him because of his edgy humor
- 1 video where he got some people to hold up a "Death to all jews"-sign to find out whether these people will do anything for money, or if they have moral boundaries - a stunt that was distasteful, sure (and not that effective, because their English was so bad that these guys likely didn't even understand what they had written on that sign), but hardly a case of him using Antisemitic rhetoric in a serious manner either, especially given that his reaction to them holding up the sign was him being shocked that they actually did it, not him celebrating the message.

I conclude that if that's all the evidence you have, then in my opinion your backtracking was unnecessary, as I don't see the "long history of anti-Jewish statements" that you thought you had found. Every case from the Disney thing was just a form of edgy humor, no actual evidence of Antisemitism.

 

[Akka]

Meh. I'm too lazy and haven't enough vested interest to look into it in detail, but I'm pretty sure I made worse edgy jokes than him when I was his age (and, to be honest, I still enjoy them today, it's just that context is not the same when you're about forty than when you were about twenty, so there is much less occasions to be "edgy" that don't become "the dumb idiot who didn't grew up").
I'm not even speaking of two of my friends who enjoyed making nazi and racist jokes (especially because they were both Arabs), like yelling "HEIL HITLER" while doing the nazi salute.
Juvenile sounds decidedly much more probable. And the fact we need to analyze all that in such depth is another element that makes me think that political correctness has gone too far a long time ago.

 

[Oerdin]

The whole thing about PewDiePie and Disney is built on a total of four videos.

- 2 videos where he cut in Nazi footage randomly for comedic effect based on the absurdity of it being there
- 1 video where he reacted to being called out for that kind of humor as an actual Nazi by several media outlets by pretending to watch Nazi footage as a brownshirt and enjoying it (which is where the above screenshot is from), a video that then ironically was later used as "evidence" by several outlets to again make him seem like a genuine Nazi after the WSJ had showed it to attack him because of his edgy humor
- 1 video where he got some people to hold up a "Death to all jews"-sign to find out whether these people will do anything for money, or if they have moral boundaries - a stunt that was distasteful, sure (and not that effective, because their English was so bad that these guys likely didn't even understand what they had written on that sign), but hardly a case of him using Antisemitic rhetoric in a serious manner either, especially given that his reaction to them holding up the sign was him being shocked that they actually did it, not him celebrating the message.

I conclude that if that's all the evidence you have, then in my opinion your backtracking was unnecessary, as I don't see the "long history of anti-Jewish statements" that you thought you had found. Every case from the Disney thing was just a form of edgy humor, no actual evidence of Antisemitism.

Having done a quick Google search for myself this does indeed appear to be the case. The original claims made against him are looking more and more like hysterical nonsense to me.

Unfortunately, hysterical nonsense is pretty much what you usually get out of these self aggrandizing SJWs these days.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

I am only here to say the obvious: that the premise of this thread is ridiculous. In a ridiculous world, it may have a place and role, may pay its dues to advancing culture, somehow.
But it is still so mother-boning ridiculous. Come on, how can you see that ridiculousness and not be like "Okay, F that."
(If you don't see it, please say so, at best trying to explain why you don't see it, so that I can explain in length my superiority, appreciate it)

Some whatever dude who literally only cares about casually entertaining people on a very random, cynic, relate able and many other adverbs level said a racially charged word to express his disgust of someones behavior.
Bohooo... have you ever been among people, in a space where they feel relatively safe? They are so objectionable in so many ways so many times, if you hold standards of public dency. Because public decency and with it political correctness is not about any substance or nuance or shade or the human condition or anything like that. It is a rigid set of rules to uphold a fight by proxy fighting it. Proxy fighting means banning any behavior associated with the enemies of the fight. And this is good versus evil.
But this is also the real world. And what distinguishes youtubers from normal entertainers is that they are supposed to be "real": Sure, they aren't. Pewdiecake said so himself, actually. Many times. But that is the assumption... so if he talks like your friend may talk out of a whim, it is naturally a different thing than when Jimmy Kimmel says it.

Anyway, political correctness is useful.
But of course always also so stupid.
If you struggle with that contradiction, you struggle with even knowing what you are discussing.

 

[Zkribbler]

Anyway, political correctness is useful.
But of course always also so stupid.
If you struggle with that contradiction, you struggle with even knowing what you are discussing.

So.things that are useful are stupid. Got it!.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Well welcome my challenged fellow. Welcome to the human condition 101. Make yourself restful. But don't relax! (another contradiction!) Since while you need a clear mind, you will also need your wits, most apparently.

Yes, being stupid and useful matches quit right in public culture. Indeed, one may call it a perfect paring.
How that can be? How is such a thing is even possible in this quit perfect (sarcasm, another of those weird thingies being about contradiction of sth) world?
My explanation will be extensive - and will seem very very patronizing. That is so, because it truly is a childish thing to have to discuss, so relax on your pride for a bit. It will only be in the way.

And as already hinted, I would be lying if I said this was a good question. It is not. So not. But I will answer comprehensibly, nevertheless. But that will, in the beginning, make this seem all the more patronizing. Since the puzzles times you know. But not fully, not in a way that you would have known to put them together. This, I will teach,

See, even in a small group of people, culture often does not rest on reason, but feelings. Which quit naturally is the case, since actually arguing everything is not only extremely resource-extensive and wasteful (look what they did to Sociology or Philosophy, it is a big shame, really), it also, in principle, misses the point, since the point is in the end always about the feels - human literally only care about them, ultimately. And those feelings express themselves in judgement. While those judgement assume the role of reason.

However, not reason, only judgement carries social weight!
As a consequence, not argument, but feels determine social dynamics. And this goes for a group where everyone can talk to everyone. Imagine a group where no one talks to anyone but everyone talks about someone.
This is public culture.

As a rule of thumb, public culture is the worst of personal culture times 10, minus 90% of the good parts pf personal culture. It really is a worst case scenario of culture.
Humans are not made for that crap.

Now imagine this irrational beast of a dynamic of judgement meeting reason.
Harmony! Yeah now, are you freaking brain-damaged? Of course not. This is like a child which had a stake smashed into his head is now supposed to be the wise learder of the world.
The child is as dumb as a peace of wood. Or bread. Or... It is very very dumb. But we can stil whisper into its ears. Make it useful. But it never will be wise.

There is so much more to say and explain. But I think you are, in spite of your intellectual flaws, which we of course all have, to some degree, able to reason. So I think this should be enough for you to start doing so.
Good lucK!

Moderator Action: To no one's great surprise, insulting someone's intelligence because they disagree with you is not allowed. ~ Arakhor
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[yung.carl.jung]

(look what they did to Sociology or Philosophy, it is a big shame, really)

I have an entire folder of smug Michel Foucault reaction images ready to unleash onto you.. Better be careful how you talk about postmodernism around these parts, kiddo

 

[Terxpahseyton]

I am so so ready for that.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

(giggling intensifies)



"who does this guy think he is? his head isn't even half as shiny as mine.."



"jean paul, you got something to say about this?"

 

[aelf]

Well of course there are. It would be really weird if I were the only one. But all that's by the by really. The most interesting part was your identification of this as a "gang badge". If you meant that in any sort of literal sense then I'd suggest you need to take a step back and reassess how accurate your worldview is, and how paranoid you might be.

I think the bit where you do yourself no credit as always is misdiagnosing a comparison as "identification".

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Foucault is entertainingly cocky, and I actually have seen the debate the first image is from (did not find it very interesting, more like theorists discussing the minutia of formulating theories, and I hate hate hate concerning myself with language in Sociology, since I have come to despise their usage of it as an utterly pretentious replacement of math in natural science to seem so much sciency as possible - that really touches the root issue of grand sociology, IMO - their desperate effort to be like a natural science, pathetic and counter-productive)

However, and I need to be very very careful now as I have learned, I am disappointed in your to your intelligence entirely unrelated.. not ability, but circumstantial readiness to provide amusing pictures.
Me a bald dude not liking baldness jokes may have something to do with it (since that smiley is hardly addressing the content of your post as such but is casting judgement on it, which carries a judgement on yourself, I hope I will be forgiven for using it, since it was a standard option --which hopefully is not worthy of 1+ points, though I worry voicing this worry at least may be... just send me to the camp already)

Moderator Action: PDMA is never acceptable. ~ Arakhor
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Manfred Belheim]

I think the bit where you do yourself no credit as always is misdiagnosing a comparison as "identification".

Okay. Well this is "like" talking to an idiot. I mean obviously I'm not saying that's my opinion of what's happening, and it would be disingenuous to claim that I was. But it is definitely very "like" that.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

Lol, this is probably all you need to know on the subject:

 

[Zkribbler]

The whole thing about PewDiePie and Disney is built on a total of four videos.

Or as stated in Wikipedia:

A few weeks later, The Wall Street Journal reported on the incident, while also adding that since August 2016, PewDiePie has included anti-Semitic jokes or Nazi imagery in nine separate videos.[106]

The moral of Kurt Vonnegut Jr's novel is "You are what you pretend to be." For a man who is nearly 30 to claim his repeated anti-Jewish statements are merely "jokes" is not credible. Jokes are supposed to be funny.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

Foucault is entertainingly cocky, and I actually have seen the debate the first image is from (did not find it very interesting, more like theorists discussing the minutia of formulating theories, and I hate hate hate concerning myself with language in Sociology, since I have come to despise their usage of it as an utterly pretentious replacement of math in natural science to seem so much sciency as possible - that really touches the root issue of grand sociology, IMO - their desperate effort to be like a natural science, pathetic and counter-productive)

However, and I need to be very very careful now as I have learned, I am disappointed in your to your intelligence entirely unrelated.. not ability, but circumstantial readiness to provide amusing pictures.
Me a bald dude not liking baldness jokes may have something to do with it (since that smiley is hardly addressing the content of your post as such but is casting judgement on it, which carries a judgement on yourself, I hope I will be forgiven for using it, since it was a standard option --which hopefully is not worthy of 1+ points, though I worry voicing this worry at least may be... just send me to the camp already)

I thought the debate was terrible, but for different reasons. I do not at all see how sociology is trying to be like a natural science, but maybe that debate is for another day?

I am sure Slavoj Zizek would gladly send you to a Kulak as soon as he installs power. (I don't mind your choice of smileys at all, infact I must admit I am rather fond of your extremely self-aware style of writing, feels like I'm in your head when I'm reading your post)

Lol, this is probably all you need to know on the subject:

Paul Joseph Watson really needs to S t F u. Not only does he sound like a chipmunk, he's also easily one of the most idiotic YouTube commentators of our times. Truly a sophist, just without any of the eloquency. His opinion pieces on art are by far the worst, really showing just how dense, misinformed and simplistic he is.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

. His opinion pieces on art are by far the worst, really showing just how dense, misinformed and simplistic he is.

Just say it. His opinions on art are racist. But what about his opinions on racism? I call that an art...

 

[aelf]

Okay. Well this is "like" talking to an idiot. I mean obviously I'm not saying that's my opinion of what's happening, and it would be disingenuous to claim that I was. But it is definitely very "like" that.

Any idiot can make unsupported assertions like that, so, yes, I agree that "this" is like talking to an idiot.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

Just say it. His opinions on art are racist. But what about his opinions on racism? I call that an art...

I respect you very much as a poster, but that's a really poor answer. I don't think PJW is being racist at all in most of his videos and I never said so. Rather, he is the ultimate philistine, always completely uninformed and reductionist whenever he talks about a topic. Never did I call him a racist my man

He's some useful idiot making opinion pieces for pathetic alt-righties and self-declared national socialist life-action roleplayers in their late teens or early twenties. If you fall for him I really couldn't care less, it's your loss.

I mean he stylises himself like a character from fight club ffs. He worked for/with Alex Jones.

 

[Ryika]

Or as stated in Wikipedia:

Yeah, looks like I missed some of the early Nazi Imagery videos:

"Mr. Kjellberg’s use of Nazi material dates back to at least Aug. 7, when he began a video with a swastika and other Nazi imagery. Wearing a “Make America Great Again” hat from President Donald Trump’s campaign, Mr. Kjellberg used a photo of Hitler as a segue between clips.

Mr. Kjellberg says the material is portrayed in jest. He showed a clip from a Hitler speech in a Sept. 24 video criticizing a YouTube policy, posted swastikas drawn by his fans on Oct. 15 and watched a Hitler video in a brown military uniform to conclude a Dec. 8 video. He also played the Nazi Party anthem before bowing to a swastika in a mock resurrection ritual on Jan. 14, and included a very brief Nazi salute with a Hitler voice-over saying “Sieg Heil” and the text “Nazi Confirmed” near the beginning of a Feb. 5 video.

In the Jan. 11 video, in which the two men are unfurling the “Death to All Jews” sign, Mr. Kjellberg paid people to do bizarre things via the website Fiverr, which helps freelancers secure part-time work. After he shows himself hiring the men to make the sign, he watches them unfurling the sign while they laugh and dance. Mr. Kjellberg appears to express shock and apologizes, saying “I didn’t think they would actually do it.” He doesn’t explain why he still included the clip in the video, which wasn’t broadcast live. The Indian men, apologized in a video saying “we really don’t know what the message meant when making the video.”

Mr. Kjellberg defended himself from criticism in a Jan. 17 video, saying “I think there’s a difference between a joke and actual like... death to all Jews. If I made a video saying”—Mr. Kjellberg then quickly cuts to a close-up of his face illuminated brightly—“Hey guys, PewDiePie here. Death to all Jews, I want you to say after me: Death to all Jews. And, you know, Hitler was right. I really opened my eyes to white power. And I think it is time we did something about this.” The video then zooms back out and he adds: “That is how they’re essentially reporting this, as if that’s what I was saying.”

Jonathan Vick, an associate director of the Anti-Defamation League, criticized Mr. Kjellberg’s apologies. “Just putting it out there brings it more and more into the mainstream,” he said."

Of course the timeline of events that I laid out is still correct. Also note that aside from the "Death to All Jews"-sign from his experiment none of that is even antisemitic rhetoric, or well, I guess you could argue that the "Hitler did nothing wrong" also implies antisemitism, but even that is a widely circulated internet meme that is clearly being used ironically. Aside from those two, it's all using Nazi Imagery completely out of context for comedic effect.

The moral of Kurt Vonnegut Jr's novel is "You are what you pretend to be." For a man who is nearly 30 to claim his repeated anti-Jewish statements are merely "jokes" is not credible. Jokes are supposed to be funny.

What's funny is subjective. I found those videos to be pretty funny. Most people in his audience did find them funny, or at least didn't object to them, because those videos had very high like-to-dislike-ratios.

You're of course free to think of him as an Anti-Semite based on the jokes he makes, but I find that evidence to be pretty weak. By that standard, so many full-time comedians are all sorts of hateful people based on material that is clearly ironic, self-deprecating, intentionally absurd, or just designed to offend.