So, why aren't we on Mars yet?

[Winner]

Why don't we do something useful to the moon before we go to mars? like building a permanent base and develop technologies to make it very efficient so that further exploration trips would be a much more safe and cost effective.

Amen to that. Moon is much more profitable in the short term. It is close and we can gain some experience with space colonization there. Mars is not a hot issue now.

 

[steviejay]

I would like to see us go back to the moon. Not only is there more to explore (a few missions back in the 60s and 70's ain't exactly thorough) but the potential for a base on the dark side would be huge and potentially cost effective (slightly stretching it there, I mean more in the sense launching probes and satellites would be cheaper because there would be no need for a big honking Atlas-V rocket to get it into space)

Also, a telescope on the dark side of the moon would offer some incredibly crisp and clear images of space because it's shielded from the sun

 

[El_Machinae]

There is much support for going to the moon. Ice harvesting, tritium harvesting, etc.

I think that Mars is better explored via robot. We get more scientific bang for our buck that way, and we get it sooner. I have no doubts that we're going to go to Mars someday, but the probes are a decent idea.

Regarding the extensive poverty in the world: the best way to remove that poverty is through industrial and capital (and technological) progress. Figuring out ways of making Space a resource would give us another avenue to combat poverty. That said, if people wish to focus their charity dollars on humanitarian efforts, then good on them.

 

[wicshade]

There are many trillions of things more important than going to Mars.

The energy crisis & climate change being the top two.

i'd like to add that terraforming Mars may be the only answer to global warming, to bad it would take a couple of thosand years.

i don't think we should waste the money when you could send something like a hundred robots to mars for the price of 1 man mission to mars. also it would take about 10 years to set up such a mission as well.

 

[Mirc]

Of course, once you'd get used to Martian gravity, you'd have a trouble if you decided to go back to Earth.

Gravity is not the problem. It's the absence of a decent magnetic field, atmosphere and water.

I didn't say gravity was the biggest problem. IMHO the biggest problems are a) lack of water and b) soil in which you can't grow anything (100% infertile).

And living with 1/3 of your weight isn't that simple. It's not kinda pleasant at all, after some time. You can't live well with 1/3 of your weight. Your heart was not designed for this. After some months/years spent in such a place, your brain will start having huge problems - the heart is not going to pump the right amount of blood. Also the excretory system was not designed for 1/3 of your weight. We already know that people who spent a long time in places with different gravity have heart problems... It's nice in the first weeks/months or so... then you're going to feel the side effects

 

[steviejay]

I think the reason why robotic exploration has given so much recently is the reason why people aren't so keen to get off their behinds and go there themselves. Success stories such as Cassini, and the Mars Rovers show that for a few hundred mill you can do 'almost' everything that coudl be done for the few hundred billion needed to send some flesh and blood up there.

 

[steviejay]

I didn't say gravity was the biggest problem. IMHO the biggest problems are a) lack of water and b) soil in which you can't grow anything (100% infertile).

And living with 1/3 of your weight isn't that simple. It's not kinda pleasant at all, after some time. You can't live well with 1/3 of your weight. Your heart was not designed for this. After some months/years spent in such a place, your brain will start having huge problems - the heart is not going to pump the right amount of blood. Also the excretory system was not designed for 1/3 of your weight. We already know that people who spent a long time in places with different gravity have heart problems... It's nice in the first weeks/months or so... then you're going to feel the side effects

Surely such issues with the heart and what not could be tackled by cardiovascular workout? Exercising for a set period a day to ensure the heart is kept 'healthy'.

Note- I'm not debating what you said, I've no idea if what I said would work, I'm just kinda curious if that would help the affects of being in that type of gravity for a long period of time

 

[Tycoon101]

We aren't on Mars due to a lack of proper funding and the lack of a true international competition between countries. Now, if China started shooting for Mars, I bet that the USA would really hustle to get a manned flight to Mars.

1) Stop global warming !!
2) World Peace !!
3) Colonize the sea !!
4) Stop poverty !!
5) Ban Religion !!

1)If we start getting people and industry off Earth and onto Mars, it would help cut down on any man-made global warming.

2) I'm sorry, do you live on Earth? World peace will be impossible unless all dissenters are killed. In a free society, you can't expect total peace.

3) Why not colonize Mars? Colonizing the sea would just destroy the underwater ecosystem and cause more problems than you could imagine.

4) Once again, poverty is a facet of human society.

5) Once again, religion is a facet of human society.

 

[EdwardTking]

Getting to Mars would be a great acheivement but with 11,000,000 children dying from poverty each year I say we delay it for a while.

The fact is that getting to Mars has already been delayed for about
30 years and there is no evidence that such delay has reduced the
number of children dying from poverty each year at all.

 

[El Koeno]

Getting to mars would probably generate an influx of research, which could in turn solve problems on Earh.
If we do it internationaly, it would probably ease some of the diplomatic tensions on Earth and give humans a greater sense of purpose.
You do realize that the only way to survive as a species is to colonize another planet. (ask the dinosaurs about that).

How is getting to mars going to solve global warming? How is it going to solve the HIV/AIDS epidemic? How is going to solve the poor quality of infrastructure in Africa? How will it allow to lift a single person from below the poverty line ($1 a day) above it? How is it going to convince a single Janajaweed-member to stop attacks on villages in Darfur?

 

[Mirc]

Surely such issues with the heart and what not could be tackled by cardiovascular workout? Exercising for a set period a day to ensure the heart is kept 'healthy'.

Note- I'm not debating what you said, I've no idea if what I said would work, I'm just kinda curious if that would help the affects of being in that type of gravity for a long period of time

I don't know, that might help, but we still don't know exactly how bad the very-long-term effects are. Nor do we know a lot of other things needed for a colony there - for example how pregnant women and (unborn or not) babies do in such a low-gravity place.

 

[Winner]

And living with 1/3 of your weight isn't that simple. It's not kinda pleasant at all, after some time. You can't live well with 1/3 of your weight.

Yes, you can, and it's actually better for your body.

Your heart was not designed for this. After some months/years spent in such a place, your brain will start having huge problems - the heart is not going to pump the right amount of blood.

Why shouldn't it?

Also the excretory system was not designed for 1/3 of your weight. We already know that people who spent a long time in places with different gravity have heart problems... It's nice in the first weeks/months or so... then you're going to feel the side effects

You feel the side effect only after you return to Earth. And you're obviously talking about the experience we have with a zero G enviroment, which is not what I am talking about here. 1/3 gravity is different. It means your bones and muscles get weaker in time, but that's just a sign that your body is adjusting to the new enviroment. It can do that, our bodies are very flexible.

EDIT: just in case you haven't noticed, I am talking about staying

 

[EdwardTking]

How is getting to mars going to solve global warming? How is it going to solve the HIV/AIDS epidemic? How is going to solve the poor quality of infrastructure in Africa? How will it allow to lift a single person from below the poverty line ($1 a day) above it? How is it going to convince a single Janajaweed-member to stop attacks on villages in Darfur?

You know what, I am going to make myself a coffee.
Now a fresh coffee for Edward will not do anything to:

(i) solve global warming
(ii) solve the HIV/AIDS epidemic
(iii) solve the poor quality of infrastructure in Africa
(iv) llift a single person from below the poverty line; or
(v) convince a single Janajaweed-member to stop attacks

but I see no reason to deny myself a cup of coffee because of that.

 

[steviejay]

I once read a report somewhere where the idea of children born in low/zero g was discussed and the general concencus was........ no one knew heh. What they did decide on was that a child born in such an environment and then raised there would have great difficulties in adjusting to a higher g.

On a seperate but similar note, I wonder how a pregnancy would develop in zero g (i.e- the whole.... process taking place in zero g)

And in regards to El Koeno's post. We're not exactly doing much now by not going to Mars to fix that. By not going to Mars or the Moon is not going to solve those problems. To improve the infastructure and stop the attacks you would need to essentially stop war, and that's just impossibly given the current state of mankind. But if we all god behind an idea, if we all worked towards something together, it could allow for a degree of.... enlightening.

 

[Izipo]

To answer El Koeno :

Getting to mars would probably generate an influx of research, which could in turn solve problems on Earh.

How is getting to mars going to solve global warming?

Nobody knows, that's the basis of research, you have to search for new stuff. Of course, Fusion comes to mind... Unbelievable applications possible which could solve many of our current problems.
And, global warming ? What's this ? Has it been scientifically proven ? Talked about a lot, sure. Proven, not so sure. (Although, to be fair, we do have to change a lot of things to have less impact on the environment).

 

[Mirc]

Yes, you can, and it's actually better for your body.

You gotta be kidding!!

Why shouldn't it?

Because it would have to use a different amount of force. It would need to pump more in the lower part of the body and less in the upper part of the body (where your brain happens to be )! While on zero gravity, it would simply need to pump less strong, which it can easily do, a partial gravity is a totally different story. It would need to pump different in different parts of the body! The headaches reported by people who lived in zero gravity are nothing compared to what would happen in 1/3 of the gravity, 1/3 of the gravity is actually a lot more hostile to your body than 0 gravity...

 

[steviejay]

You feel the side effect only after you return to Earth. And you're obviously talking about the experience we have with a zero G enviroment, which is not what I am talking about here. 1/3 gravity is different. It means your bones and muscles get weaker in time, but that's just a sign that your body is adjusting to the new enviroment. It can do that, our bodies are very flexible.

EDIT: just in case you haven't noticed, I am talking about staying

We're now going into biology which is SO not my field of experience but would it be possibly to ... adapt to your environment. Say you're a regular joe, living at 1g for 23 years, you're then one of the first humans to go to Mars and you like it so much you buy a timeshare, so you then live on Mars for the next 23 years at 0.3g. If you wanted to return would it be possible if you say, adjusted yourself slowly in the same way that people working deep down in the ocean must readjust to the pressure of sea level?

 

[El_Machinae]

How is getting to mars going to solve global warming? How is it going to solve the HIV/AIDS epidemic? How is going to solve the poor quality of infrastructure in Africa? How will it allow to lift a single person from below the poverty line ($1 a day) above it? How is it going to convince a single Janajaweed-member to stop attacks on villages in Darfur?

These are all excellent things to work on! However, humanity needs general progress too, because our current system is unsustainable. Space Development is not only 'general progress' but it's also a really important thing for bringing additional resources into our economies. Greater economies give us more options to work with when it comes to solving these problems.

That said, I think that the Space Elevator is going to be the ticket. It will force Space Development industry to the equator and allow an increase in the size of the expert/technician workforce down there. (Plus, it will be a huge source of wealth for the planet)

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Ehm, where's the problem? Mars has about 1/3 Earth gravity, which would be kinda pleasant for humans. Gravity destroys our bodies, the stronger it is, the worse. Back pain is just a tip of the iceberg. Our skin gets wrinkled, we age faster, our hearts fail, our bones break, our joins hurt.

Precisely it is long term exposure to low gravity that causes similar effects to accelerated aging...

 

[Izipo]

That said, I think that the Space Elevator is going to be the ticket. It will force Space Development industry to the equator and allow an increase in the size of the expert/technician workforce down there. (Plus, it will be a huge source of wealth for the planet)

Agree totally. It sounds daunting to do it know, but the benefits would simply be HUGE. Not only for space exploration, but for lots of down-to-earth things.