So, why Pyramids.

[Ringo Kid]

I see a lot of players think Pyramids one of the best wonders. WHY IS THAT ?

What strategy do you employ that makes use of the wonder?

 

[Manco Capac]

To quote the best player in the forum and he likes ducks and weeds:

Mids are a crappy wonder.

Still don't fully understand, but according to him, even with lotsa modifiers, that wonder is still crappy.
Best wonders are GLH and Oracle. GLib too.

 

[Ghpstage]

Nevermind

 

[PieceOfMind]

Generally the reason is to unlock the Representation civic, although in games where a lot of war is going to happen early it's said that Police State is worthwhile too.

I hardly ever build it myself, and definitely the Great Lighthouse is better on most maps.

 

[Manco Capac]

Yeah, with enough happy resources, the 25% discount may help to retrieve the investment in the mids. If that wonder was built with modifiers ofc.

 

[MeowZeDung]

+3 in five cities and a research boost to specialists with representation is a big deal in the BCs and early ADs is why. Though I agree that GLH, Oracle, and GLib are better.

 

[Sun_TzU154]

I see a lot of players think Pyramids one of the best wonders. WHY IS THAT ?

What strategy do you employ that makes use of the wonder?

At first I wondered the same thing.Quick answer: Research. Pyramids allow all government civics early on. I figured out that running Representation is so strong early on especially if your are philosophical. Representation provides +3 per great person.

what strategy to employ? This is what I try to do. Keep in mind that i am only a monarch level player.
Assuming that you've built the MIDS, switch into representation and start farming out great people. Caste system will help with the great person farming although in some situations it may be better to stay in slavery. When you get get your scientist, build an academy in the city producing the most beakers per turn. Lets assume that's your capital. Make sure that your science wonders(Great Library, Oxford) will be build there as well as monasteries, and later on observatories. Also Most of the great people you farm out, settle in this city. This city should also be running scientists. Before you know it you will be getting 300 per turn out of one city.

In other cities that can, run scientists.

 

[simishag]

The primary reason to pursue the Pyramids is to unlock all the Government civics. Not only that, but to do so far, FAR earlier than happens normally. HR is the only civic in that category for a loooong time and I always find the path to Constitution to be a pain. The other 4 categories stagger the availability of new civics more regularly.

Representation is a very powerful civic if you can get it early in the game and run some specialists. The +3 happy is nice too, considering that you probably won't have that many cities yet, and you won't necessarily have a ton of units for the HR bonus. I think Rep is more valuable earlier in the game than later. Later on, you'll have more cities so the happiness benefit is to a smaller percentage of cities (and may not matter with trade resources). The +3 research for specialists, while nice, seems to have less impact over time.

If you don't intend to use Rep early then there's really no point. You get some GE points I guess. Or as someone else mentioned, you can run Police State for warring. I suppose you could run US but you probably can't afford it early, and why bother if you're already in Slavery?

 

[Gumbolt]

I think the reason why GLH is considered better is due to the hammer investment and return on investment. When you have lots of islands GLH allows you to expand and tech fast. 2 extra trade routes is huge early on. Faster expansion means more beakers later on.

Without stone mids is 500 or so hammers. So without the right map/leader/traits and strategy it may not always be right for the player. Of course on emperor level or below the player normally has a high chance of getting these wonders. Some teams will use an early GS for maths to speed up chopping mids.

Main plus for mids is +3 happiness in large cities. Rep civic for specialists +3 science per specialist. Police state is also not too shabby.

Overall both are strong wonders that will give you a big advantage over the Ai on the right map.

 

[Manco Capac]

There's also another particular reason for Mids and it's the possible GEngineer for corps.
Along HG, Hagia Sophia if possible plus the forge, that allows to get few GScientists before and at one time, then you let the GEngineer pops for a huge corporative game. It always started like that in my early date space games.

 

[Manco Capac]

Is mids-powered scientists another problem? It's one of the main power of Rep but that ensues with slower vertical growth...I think I've heard that reason or perhaps I invented it from my experiences...

 

[ben-jammin]

Generally the reason is to unlock the Representation civic, although in games where a lot of war is going to happen early it's said that Police State is worthwhile too.

I hardly ever build it myself, and definitely the Great Lighthouse is better on most maps.

Lol. No.

 

[ben-jammin]

Is mids-powered scientists another problem? It's one of the main power of Rep but that ensues with slower vertical growth...I think I've heard that reason or perhaps I invented it from my experiences...

If Duckweed thinks the Mids are a poor investment, it's probably because he has mastered the various other ways to leverage early hammers.

Is Oracle super great? Sure, if you unlock the tech you want and still manage to get it built. Otherwise you've pretty much ****ed yourself. Easy to overrate the Oracle if you don't consider the games you bailed on as soon as you lost it. If you miss the mids, chances are you were building it because you were industrious, had stone, or both, in which case it's not as big a disaster.

 

[Manco Capac]

oh C'mon. You never build GLH on rainforest or Great Plains mapscripts. There those wonders are great because there is absolutely no gamble effect. You can even get in the 500 AD period....trolololo.

 

[Manco Capac]

Ahhh, that's what Attacko meant with "the GW is for Spy Economy and Mids for stupid people".

He sure has abstruse knowledge in advance for his time.

 

[Mylene]

They are good if you have very limited space, cos they can make few cities powerful early.
Police State is very powerful if you whip units, obviously all this does not matter much in easy games where you can just spam GLH cities.
If someone says they are a crappy wonder, i know for sure he does not play Deity better than i do..

 

[Manco Capac]

*snips*

I see now what went wrong. Hmmm.

 

[Nicol.Bolas]

the question is why is representation so good?
I am not so sure by the answer:

its a the best non war civic and better then HR.
I think you are supposed to abuse MIDS and go SE

 

[elmurcis]

Its clear about early game (great if isolated/low happiness/research), but reason I like Pyramids is that if map has some "new world" to get after Astro... Than can use US to get that new land improved in short time because sending workers with ships is waste of hammers.. I need all place in ships for settlers and defense.. will buy workers/workboats in new cities using money from old cities.. magic of US And can get to Astro many turns before even getting close to Democracy..

 

[Grashopa]

Look at my writeup in Doshin's DDD VII Napoleon - I think going for caste and running lots of merchants/scientists was the optimal play on that map. If you have stone picking up the pyramids would have definitely made caste the optimal choice.

6 beakers per scientist. 6 scientists in the capital and 2.5 scientists for every other city you settle. Just count up the beakers and compare your options - it isn't a tough calculation, though you'll need experience to value the extra great people you can generate. And you do need stone.