Soda I - Jumping to Monarch

[aquar]

Great Library seems like a good idea and a whole lot faster than getting to mathematics AND construction. GL will speed that right up.

At this point if any of the civs asks me for technology should I give it to them? If they are hostile and especially close to us I think I should give it to them but what if they are pleased or neutral with us??? Not sure how to handle this area and since we have alphabet now....

Ok, go for chopping over the iron at this point to get those immortals out. I like the ethnic cleansing in Pasargardae and I'll try to keep the citizens in Persepolis much more happy than they are used to.

 

[retro V]

LOL, Persy's gonna celebrate 'We love our new King' day.

All the AIs love us, apart from Monty obviously. Trade techs with them if you want, I think I got everything they had at the time, though. Take care who you trade with, I probably shouldn't have traded anything with Cathy, I only accepted the one-for-one that she offered, but didn't want to make her too advanced as she's always a tough cookie in my games. Plus she's right next to us, she won't wanna be friends for very long.

 

[aquar]

1. 550BC--Pillaged Monty's copper mine just to make sure. The solo worker moves just outside our cultural influence to chop a forest since it's right there. Whipped an immortal in Pasargadae. Continuing the barracks in Tlatelolco.

2. 535BC--We have 3 workers I realize. 2 combined are now chopping once again for Persepolis.

3. 520BC--Mansa Mula asks for alphabet in exchange for nada. He's in second place in points currently and on the far side of the world from us in the dark zone. (He probably has a black ops navy and so he's very close. ) Taking my interpretation of retro's advice, I decline him. Wow, he still is pleased with us. Must be his secret navy. The borders of Tlateloko have expanded.

4. 505BC--Hatshepsut asks for alphabet in exchange for nada. She is cautious towards us and darn good looking. Somehow I manage to deny her and she calls me "shortsighted!" Darn, forgot how she responded to us. Must be her good looks. Teotihuacan is out of disarray. Start building barracks there (18 turns).

5. 490BC-- 2 new immortals completed. 9 immortals could attack Monty's capital at anytime now. Just noticed: Monty moved the spearman out of the capital towards our cities. 4 archers are left to defend the city and a worker. Begin attack before the spearman wrecks havoc on our civ. Here goes:

Immortal withdrawls from combat; archer at 1.1/3.
We destroy an archer.
Immortal dies; archer at 1.4/3.
Immortal dies; archer at 1.9/3.
We kill an archer.
We kill another archer.
We capture Tenochtitlan!!! -- but at what price? We gain a worker but spearman is on the move and quite powerful compared to our cities.

I send the 2 unengaged immortals towards the renegade spearman. I also send one injured immortal (3.3/4) after the spearman due to low military strength. The rest are sent to the newly captured city to heal.

6. 475BC--Masonary complete. Start work on Literature---requires polytheism first---for GL. Monty's spearman has done a U-turn! Backup units for attack on Monty's capital engage the spearman; I keep the veteran unit with a promotion yet to be determined last in line to attack, if need be.

Immortal dies but brings spearman to 3.0/4.

Another immortal taken in action and spearman is down to .7/4.
We defeat the renegade spearman.

I am letting the next commander choose all the upgrades for the veteran units at this time.

I whip the citizens of Teotihuacan for our barracks as part of the ethnic cleansing program initiated by Retro. (27 turns down to 1 turn)
Sad, but I cannot find the willpower within the city to whip Tlateloko for our barracks but maybe one day...

7. 460BC--Barracks completed in Teotihuacan. Send workers to build road for attack on Texcoco from the east. Plus the road is right over the iron mine of our future for our Persian capital and empire.

Captured worker starts a road over the copper mine that was formerly Monty's until the the rioting is over.

Our scout is on the way to Mansa Musa's territory where our map is very dark. Scout is on manual control nonetheless.

I've noticed that Hatty's points are skyrocketing to second place: 552 to Bismark's 553 now. Bismarck and Hatty are mutual friends with a mutual enemy: Montezuma. Catherine and Montezuma are pleased with each other and I hope it's a great relationship.

OK, I made peace with Monty for 10 turns, my initiation, for polytheism (saved 9 turns) AND sailing. I tried but could not get meditation with it. I saw no threat in this move especially since we have to move our immortals into position. I guess our civ is now one of the "angry men" or is that manipulative men. [I love that board game Diplomacy from Avalon Hill; Civ is sure about diplomacy.] And guess what the response of Monty was??? How about this

Literature is now in 18 turns at 80% tech @minus 12 gold/turn and 160 gold left in the treasury.

Status of Texaco, umm-ummm, I mean Texcoco

I think that means NOT MUCH. Susa has an axeman and 2 archers.

8. 445BC--Bored. So I whip an immortal in Teotihuacan so the next commander can use him as he sees fit. I wonder if we should keep this slavery option for much longer or else we all might become really power-crazed.

9. 430BC--Barracks started in Tenochtitlan.

10. 415BC--Captured worker has road finished and begins work on a "Persian" copper mine. Our scout is on Mansa Musa's border. Tlatelolco has one turn to grow which will allow access to a 3 hammer tile. Literature is 12 turns away at current speed. Game Saved.

Last notes: Been sending our immortals to a rendezvous point two tiles east of texcoco near our Persian capital. Our workers are building roads for our army to get there faster and the road over the iron mine is complete. No iron mine for us yet. Copper mine is 6 turns away. We have 4 workers now: one on the copper mine building; 3 near our capital.

This is the way to play this game (SG). I've learned way more than I ever could have by myself.

 

[retro V]

Sweet moves, aquar.

Lucky for you the spear moved out of Tenoch, Monty will be receiving his 'get-a-clue' coupons through the post within 5 working days. You're a braver man than me for denying tribute to those other 2 guys, or did they ask nicely? Either way, turned out alright. I'm guessing they were close to completing their own research on Alphabet, like 1-2 turns away, and thought they'd try it on with the humans. That would explain the rush of scores, as they trade around for tech parity. No fear, you got Poly etc in a peace deal, so our chance of a GL headstart just got better.

I wonder if Texaco reveals an oil resource later Assuming we haven't already won by then.

Probably a good thing you didn't whip barracks everywhere. There's more than enough unit-pumps to see the end of Monty's short career.

Can't believe it's going so well, on Monarch no less. I only wish my SGOTM was going this well. Heck, I wish my own single player games were this successful. Maybe we should retire and go for Deity already

 

[aquar]

Should note perhaps that Caesar and Hatty both have mathematics which means catapults to me. Bismarck has metal casting. Not sure what that means to you all in terms of our position in the world but I would like to know your opinion of that.

Also, I'm not sure how to go for a win at this point in the game especially after the demise of Monty. We are way behind in points to Bismark, Hatty, and even Mansa Musa. War is a hard road in my short experience but you guys have sure showed me how to win an early war. We appear ahead in technology at this point, if I'm not mistaken, for the space race. So I hope you all are open to pouring out your thoughts on this thread. And may we WIN this world over.

 

[retro V]

Metal casting is a very expensive tech. That's why his score is so high, not because his empire is better than ours. Did Bismarck build the Oracle? The same goes with Mathematics, although to a lesser extent.

In all honesty, at this rate, we could go for an early domination win.

 

[aquar]

My games never go this well ever and I only play noble on my own. I thought it was all of you!!! And hey, I don't know what I'm doing and I know I am the weakest link here. So..... This is so much fun.

As for pics, I'm using imageshack and not so well it seems. But I'll get imageshack figured out here on monarch as well. Give me a minute.

One thing I've noticed though with this SG over private games: here on SG one really examines everything because one is ONLY doing 10 turns every so often instead of a 4 hour game with oneself. So attention is there! And reading about other peoples moves is very much fun. Notes from a newbie.

 

[retro V]

I'm new to SGs too, and it's the same for me, I have to take more care. With only 10 turns, I'm not mindlessly pressing enter to get to the next milestone. That and the fact someone else has to play afterwards, and I don't want to mess it up for them.

 

[aquar]

Oh yeah, Retro, before I finish my pic glitch, I mean to ask you about that giving into civs when they ask for tech. I sort of get a mixed message from you about that: You now say we got lucky and you explained your reasoning well. But what is your guideline overall. Earlier you bascially said be careful.

What buttons or status screens should I beware of before the dreaded question of tech for nothing comes or even tech for actual trade???

I'm fishing here since I know it's a weak point of my game.

And I'm glad I got lucky in this case because that is what it was.

 

[AdamW81]

Giving in for me is usually determined by either the power of the other civ or what relationship I want longterm with the other civ. Check the power graph regularly and if we are middle of the range and the top power guy comes asking, I usually give. Likewise, if its someone I want a good relationship with down the road I might give in. Anyone else, especially neighbors I'll probably be attacking sooner or later, I ignore.

 

[aquar]

Ok, I think pic glitch is fixed. I just did this entry so I can get my pic for my name with so many entries. Anyways, i'm just wasting space here.

RRAU, you're up.
AdamW81, you're on deck.
SpriteSODA, you're the pinch hitter!!!

btw, Retro, the two civs that asked for tech did ask nicely if that means anything.
I checked our power graph just now. Wow! We were way behind but we are quite up there now. With this win over Monty, we should be just fine for at least the next few turns. Tech will definately be a factor in the next few turns especially if we go for a domination victory. Catapult will be key there.

Long term, hmm???????

Looking forward to hearing from RRAU, AdamW81, and Veryape.

 

[retro V]

No idea, to be honest All I know, is it's not like Civ3, the AI don't seem to automatically declare war when you refuse tribute. It just gets recorded in your diplomacy score.

There seems to me to be 2 ways of asking for something for nothing. You can either 'demand tribute' from another AI, or ask them to 'spare something for a good friend', as I'm sure you've noticed. It must be the same for the AI to ask something from humans. Depends on the way they ask, I suppose, as to which of these categories the request falls into.

As to whether we should grant either such request, again I dunno It all depends who we want to keep as friends, and who we don't want to get too strong. Diplomacy in this game is so complex, I can't get my tiny mind round it. Just go with whatever, I say, once religion starts spreading around more commonly, all alignments are gonna get overhauled anyway.

 

[aquar]

If we do have a next war victim, it should be Catherine, imo. Reasons being are within the current diplomacy.

Bismarck and Hatshepsut are pleased with each other. They BOTH are cautious with Catherine so therefore if we mess with Catherine they won't care. Catherine and Caesar are pleased with each other. Therefore if Catherine is our enemy so is Caesar. Therefore Catherine may be the best second target.

That only leaves Mansa Musa since Monty is DEAD. Mansa Musa is pleased with the egyptian Hatshepsut and vice versa. So it would seem that a third target would be the germans over the egyptians to have less enemies unless we can get to the romans easier. The romans would be the "ideal" third target.

This is just a thought as to the diplomatic war at this time.

Thank you, AdamW81, for the power graph advice. I never used it until now!


What just occurred to me is this: We might want to keep our western cities a bit defeneded because Caesar will probably have ships land units on our shores. Especially after we attack Catherine. Just a thought. Something like that usually happens to me on my noble games and this is monarch. I'm still waiting for the surprise. [Run on thought] Perhaps this is where technology saves the day with proper building. It will be interesting to see the progression from here.

 

[AdamW81]

I haven't checked the save, I usually go for whoever is first in score if they are a neighbor.

After the early war, I usually consolidate and build up while researching construction, then use cats with a few axeman/horses for backup for victim #2.

 

[retro V]

Cathy won't get her UU for a while, so I would like to take her down slightly before she gets too powerful. Musa's UU is an archer, which is going out of date now, so he is well worth considering. Caeser we want to keep on our side for quite a while, because of his Praetorians. He's on the other side of the planet, though, which helps.

Wouldn't it be good to settle down for the time being? Once Monty's out of the way of our current expansion, we will have enough to do within our own borders, without messing with anyone else's. Or is it best to press the advantage before everyone else catches up and supercedes us?


EDIT: ah yea, catapults. Best wait until we have a few of them.

 

[aquar]

All these questions is why I'm asking. Personally, I think I would kill off Monty and then get construction with catapults to take on Catherine. But then to build all those catapults and such is what seems to make me lose games.

So, who has the answer? I'm willing to try anything.

Caesar and Mansu are way off of our civ. Bismark is pleased with us. So bascially only Catherine is a "possible" threat. We have the option of donig almost anything which is GREAT. We ONLY have to kill off Monty.

RRAU is up. What is your plan, RRAU?

Edit: I've always thought that tech is great to have over the other civs to my demise or not. The GL might help us out a whole lot or not. After catapults, I've always been lost in what the best path is.

 

[retro V]

I suggest whipping a few libraries, get Literature as soon as, start the GL. Where's the marble? If Cathy has some, then we could confiscate it from her. Start as we mean to go on, so to speak. Take a few workers while we're at it.

Or trade for marble, build our own workers, and go from there.

 

[aquar]

Ironically, the egyptians have the marble. And so do the Romans.

I like the peace-time ideas: whip some libraries and go for the tech-lead.
That and with the idea of taking over Catherine at this time. Things could change.
But with RRAU up, methinks RRAU needs to finish the job on Monty.

RRAU, less than 24 hours for an "I've got it."
AdamW81, weknows you are here. You're on deck.

 

[SpriteSODA]

Very nice work! 'bout that spear - couldnt you wait for him to attack the city? better than hitting him when he's at the top of a hill.

 

[aquar]

Might be so about that spear, spriteSODA. We lost 2 immortals to that action. You're the pinch hitter. If you want the next moves please take them, you're up. I'm not sure how it that works....

aquar is anxious to see this game move on.