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Soda I - Jumping to Monarch

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by SpriteSODA, Aug 5, 2006.

  1. pholkhero

    pholkhero Deviant Mind

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    lurker comment

    if you create two separate smaller forces for the satellite cities (say 3 or 4 each), then you could have them join up for the assualt on Tenoch. Simple as pie! Immortals really are a good UU if you can use them quick enough.
     
  2. retro V

    retro V Prince

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    But chopping trees lowers the health cap :yuck:
     
  3. rrau

    rrau Emperor

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    You need to leave one forest near the capital. I think just having one gives you the health bonus :hmm:
     
  4. retro V

    retro V Prince

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    They add a percentile of 1 health, rounded up. Can't remember exactly, think it's 0.4 health. If so, then 3 trees give 2 health. Balance the health cap with the whip unhappiness to optimise. Also, if you think you can leave chopped plots unimproved, the forest can grow back for later.

    @Lurker: You don't reckon we would be better off leaving Monty with a stagnant empire just so we can milk him for a few centuries? :devil:
     
  5. pholkhero

    pholkhero Deviant Mind

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    @ Retro ~
    IMO, no. Monty is someone you don't want to leave in your backyard. no matter what his tech level, he'll still jump up at the most inoppurtune time and generally be a nuisance. but, if monty has a some spearmen, it WILL be a bigger nuisance. however, their bonus to horses means Immortals will be Str2 not them at Str8 ~ it may mean upping the horses to 3:1 for each spearmen, but you should be okay. I'm just a big fan of them folk.

    With axes, though, you won't attack the spearmen anyway at first. if you go with a mixed army, then i would go heavy on the axes, b/c you'll only utilize the immortals on wounded archers (e.g., city defended by archer/spearmen=axe1 attacks archer, wounds, axe2 attacks spearmen, Immortal attacks wounded archer) Remember, Immortals are almost a third cheaper!

    Why not take him out, keep his cities, head for the Big C's (Constr, CoL and Currency) and build some infra?
     
  6. retro V

    retro V Prince

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    My maths was all wrong again, but I was getting at the same thing. Need mostly axes to take spear-defended cities, but very few immortals to take cities without spears.
     
  7. SpriteSODA

    SpriteSODA Musketeer

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    I agree with pholk about the fact that we shouldnt leave Monty around, cus he's one fanatic man, just take a look at 8 Angry Men.
     
  8. pholkhero

    pholkhero Deviant Mind

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    @ Retro ~ yeah, you may get lucky and have just a few archers on the satellite cities and the spears at Tenoch, but i guess you'll find out soon enough :hammer:

    @ Sprite ~ yup! He's not an Angry Man for nothing, eh? (though in warlords, it would be nice to include Stalin, Shaka and Ragnar to the list!!)
     
  9. retro V

    retro V Prince

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    And Hannibal? That makes a full twelve then ;)
     
  10. SpriteSODA

    SpriteSODA Musketeer

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    BTW ppl to write lurker easily write delurk and /delurk between [].
     
  11. aquar

    aquar Chieftain

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    I vote attack and keep the cities! In my games, I never seem to be able to kill off the first civ fast enough. I want to see this technique done correctly and on monarch, no less.
     
  12. retro V

    retro V Prince

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    In my games it goes like this: rush, chop, whip and bleed your cities dry producing a balance of units you see fit for the job, attack in bulk (no sense letting wounded enemies heal before your next attack/s), and keep building units to fortify the cities in resistance, stacking them as fast as you can while all the veterans keep advancing once healed. For me, it's all about this flow. It takes long enough to heal victorious vets, without having to wait for long distance reinforcements. When you have reserves just a few steps behind the advance force, you steamroll over early AIs. Downside is, my core is poorly defended, military is spread thin with the main bulk of it at great distances from the capital; also, low pops and rockbottom productivity combined with the low defence makes me a sitting duck.
     
  13. AdamW81

    AdamW81 Chieftain

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    usually though if you build up that much power and take out a civ you will be really high on the power graph which makes attack from another civ alot less likely. I'm a big fan of early conquest despite being spread thin and having a poor economy temporarily.
     
  14. SpriteSODA

    SpriteSODA Musketeer

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    Darn guys im truly sry I think I have to ask for a skip=[
     
  15. retro V

    retro V Prince

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    Cool, I got it.
     
  16. retro V

    retro V Prince

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    0. 715BC. Moved a couple of Immortals forward, queued some workers to chop the outer forests round Persy as soon as they were free, left one worker to connect Susa by road. Stole Monty's worker sitting right outside Tlatelolco. We are now at war!!
    2. 685BC. Monty has just sent an axeman to rustle our cows near Pasargadae. Lost one Immortal, second one killed the axe.

    3. 670BC. Tlatelolco falls without casualty, YAY! Moved a warrior in, everything else is headed for Pasargadae. Start scouting Teotihuacan with a warrior.
    5. 640BC. Warrior pillages a cottage in Teo, which is garrisoned by a spear and a archer. All I got are Immortals, so I'm gonna need a few of them. However, enemy axe and bow pair moves into Susa territory! Where the hell did they come from?! I decide to let Susa go. I can't see the point of changing plans now, when almost all our troops have moved on Monty down south. Worker ordered to stop and help chop near the capital. Warrior left to pointlessly guard, figured why let them have it easy.
    6. 625BC. Settler pair sighted by the coast west of the capital. Tlatelolco comes out of resistance.

    7. 610BC. Susa falls. Cyrus declares a minute's silence.
    8. 595BC. Cyrus says that's long enough. 8 Immortals stacked and raring to go. One quick look at Teotihuacan by the warrior scouting party shows a reconfigured garrison, only an axe and bow there now.

    IBT. Alphabet finished, Cathy is first in there begging for crumbs. She offers Mysticism for Sailing (iIrc). I accept, but only because she asked nicely. Not gonna give her too much help though. Went through the other civs instead. Managed to narrow down a good deal with Caesar. Gave him Alphabet for Ironworking, Fishing and Archery. Tried to get Masonry, but it was a toss-up between that and Archery. Research started on Masonry; Pyramids, anyone?

    9. 580BC. The bugle sounds, and the cavalry charge! Lose 2 Immortals to the axe, then another one to the bow, then the bow and axe die with the next 2 attacks. Casualty report: 3 losses, 5 remaining unscathed. Teotihuacan falls!
    10. 565BC. All 5 move forward outside of the Aztec capital. Tenochtitlan garrisoned by a spear and 2 bows under a 60% culture defence bonus. Gonna need back-up. Sent everything forward. Good luck, soldiers!


    Not a bad report, I hope. Sorry about Susa (our northern province), but war is war. If I'd have known they were about, I would have sent 3 Immortals up there to counter it. But by the time they appeared, all our military was halfway down south. Anyway, Monty needed Teo more than he needs Susa. His productivity must be down 40% despite taking Susa, we are winning this war.

    Suggest continuing as strong as possible in taking the capital. Persepolis is knocking out horses every 1-2 turns with the chops and whips. Don't worry too much about the :mad: Let them suffer. It's gonna be hard grafting to get Tenochtitlan, probably requires 5 more Immortals before we start attacking, imo. Once it's ours, Monty is up crit sheek without a paddle. If we can get a good deal for peace at that point (he has 4 techs we can choose one of now), then so be it. Ten years later, we can take Susa and his new city and finish him off for good.

    Don't know who's up next. Either Soda or aquar. Whoever gets there first?
    Have I forgot something....? Oops, here's the save:
     
  17. aquar

    aquar Chieftain

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    Very fun moves, Retro! War is exciting. I'll be able to play in 12 hours from now if SpriteSODA is not available when I get home from work. This time I won't be afraid to whip my own citizens for the good of the Persian empire. :lol: Looks like the next ten turns will be soley focused on the demise of Monty--that will be my agenda.
     
  18. retro V

    retro V Prince

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    I got a lot done in 10 turns :D Persepolis has got whip weariness for about 45 turns, you might not want to add any more, lol. I hardly touched Pasargadae, though, so you could get a few miles out of there. It hasn't got the high food and hammer plots that Persy has, so it definitely needs timber assistance. The old Aztec cities probably hate our guts while the war is going on, so whip them down to one pop, call it ethnic cleansing.

    Good luck if you go for the capital, you will need it. That and a big SOD.
     
  19. aquar

    aquar Chieftain

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    Do you think I should send one of the workers to hook up the iron next to Persepolis so that we can get axes and swords? Or should I just continue chopping distant forests for more immortals for the whole ten turns? We have two workers that I see on the map.

    Next technology starts in 7 turns. I think mathematics should be next so that we can get construction after that. Do you think that is the best choice at this time?
     
  20. retro V

    retro V Prince

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    Don't know about research. Depends if we have more fighting to do later. Amazingly we have tech advantage, what about literature for the GL next?

    Pumping out Immortals right away seems better than waiting to hook up iron. They're cheap and they're almost as tough as swords, but best of all they're fast. Those 5 I left outside Tenochtitlan should survive anything Monty throws at them, 25% fortify + 25% hills bonus. But they need a lot of back-up before they start attacking.

    OH!! I totally forgot, where is his copper? Cut that off immediately, lol. Send a spare warrior to knock out any high output food or gold plots, if you can, or just sit on top of them to stop his citizens working them.

    Thinking about it seriously, taking that capital is pretty important. It's the only city he has left that has any culture or productivity.
     

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