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Soldiers rating in demographics

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Nefliqus, Oct 7, 2011.

  1. Nefliqus

    Nefliqus Chieftain

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    How units powers is transformed into Soldiers rating in demographics. Dose this rating include only units power or some technology and building also? Is it Combat strength or Basic Units strength? Does it include city power also?


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  2. southpw11

    southpw11 Chieftain

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    If I understand your question, you're asking what goes into the soldiers demographic rating. I think this question was asked once long ago, and I believe it includes combat units only, and takes into account what type of unit (ie..warrior is worth a lot less than infantry).
     
  3. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Pô Chi Min

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    With hoplites and companion cavs, Greece seems to be on top soldiers pretty often in the beginning. Both UUs have higher strengh than regular units of their type.
     
  4. Nefliqus

    Nefliqus Chieftain

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    It is not so easy and clear, for example
    one worrior with combat str 6 results with 8246 but
    2 worriors with combat str 6*2 give 11662 result


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  5. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Pô Chi Min

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    I'm not sure, but i think workers and settlers have some value.
     
  6. CrazyHorseSouix

    CrazyHorseSouix Chieftain

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    this is something I've always been curious about. Not just soldier count, but how are all of the demographics figured?

    It has also always bugged me that pop. counts always seem low. If it is 1950, and my empire owns most of the world with most of the cities thriving, shouldn't I have more than 30 million people?
     
  7. vexing

    vexing knows

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    it's units alone,
    the values increase over time,
    level is included in unit rankings,
    the formula is not very clear. for example, having two warriors might only be a 50% value increase over having one. i could probably figure out the exact formula but the demographics screen is only updated between turns which is annoying for testing purposes.
     
  8. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    Yes, the population demographic is stupid. I've played games where I own half of a Huge map, with many 30+ cities particularly in my core, and I don't think I've ever seen population exceed 50-60 million.

    Soldiers takes into account number of units and tech. I'm pretty sure workers and settles aren't counted but I could be wrong.

    Demographics are largely self-explanatory...Approval Rating is the only one that doesn't make much sense to me.
     
  9. Nefliqus

    Nefliqus Chieftain

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    Population formula is very well known:
    DEMOPOP = 1000 * City1POP ^ 2,8 + 1000 * City2POP ^ 2,8 ... + 1000 * CitynPOP ^ 2,8
    rounded down to nearest 1000

    Here you have table with list of demo pop and corresponding number of total citizens and cities

    demoCIV5.pdf:


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  10. Nefliqus

    Nefliqus Chieftain

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    Spoiler :

    http://forum.civilization.org.pl/img/Nefliqus_phpVsvJO5_civ5soldierscore.jpg

    It is simple method how to calculate score of units group.
    I have tried to make mathematics formula for this but it was to hard for me. Maybe some of you can use this score step list.

    Spoiler :

    Military score steps
    4000
    4472
    4899
    5292
    5657
    6000
    6325
    6633
    6928
    7211
    7483
    7746
    8000
    8246
    8485
    8718
    8944
    9165
    9381
    9592
    9798
    10000
    10198
    10392
    10583
    10770
    10954
    11136
    11314
    11489
    11662
    11832
    12000
    12166
    12329
    12490
    12649
    12806
    12961
    13115
    13266
    13416
    13565
    13711
    13856
    14000
    14142
    14283
    14422
    14560
    14697
    14832
    14967
    15100
    15232
    15362
    15492
    15620
    15748
    15875
    16000
    16125
    16248
    16371
    16492
    16613
    16733
    16852
    16971
    17088
    17205
    17321
    17436
    17550
    17664
    17776
    17889
    18000
    18111
    18221
    18330
    18439
    18547
    18655
    18762
    18868
    18974
    19079
    19183
    19287
    19391
    19494
    19596
    19698
    19799
    19900
    20000
    20100
    20199
    20298
    20396
    20494
    20591
    20688
    20785
    20881
    20976
    21071
    21166
    21260
    21354
    21448
    21541
    21633
    21726
    21817
    21909
    22000
    22091
    22181
    22271
    22361
    22450
    22539
    22627
    22716
    22804
    22891
    22978
    23065
    23152
    23238
    23324
    23409
    23495
    23580
    23664
    23749
    23833
    23917
    24000
    24083
    24166
    24249
    24331
    24413
    24495
    24576
    24658
    24739
    24819
    24900
    24980
    25060
    25140
    25219
    25298
    25377
    25456

    it is log function f(x) = loga(x − p) + q




    Military score is depended on:
    -unit type (unit base power determine first unit score which is positive modified by unit promotions and current civ gold)
    -unit promotions
    -units number
    -civilization gold amount

    e.g gold steps for warrior and immortal:
    Spoiler :

    warrior; first score 8246 (without promotions)
    0
    35
    139
    312
    554
    866

    immortal; first score 11489 (without promotions)
    0
    37
    83
    147
    230
    331
    450
    587

    If civ rich gold amount step unit score move up by 1 level in score list, 2 gold steps = go up by 2 levels.
    Gold steps are connected only with first unit score, not with unit power e.g gold steps for warrior with one promotion:

    warrior; first score 8944 (one promotion);
    0
    26
    100
    226
    400

    and jaguar with base power = warrior
    first score 9165 (without promotions)
    0
    23
    91
    205
    363



    Military score is NOT depended on:
    -cities number
    -city power
    -unit combat power
    -technology score
    -turn number

    If someone can use this data for preparing mathematics formulas pls send me info how u did it.
    I need 2 formulas: military score steps and unit gold steps.

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  11. vexing

    vexing knows

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    how did you get these numbers? in f(x) = loga(x − p) + q, what are the x, p and q?
     
  12. Nefliqus

    Nefliqus Chieftain

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    it is log function formula moved by vector [p,q]
    but
    it is not important because you can use this formula (2000 * (3 + n)^0,5) to calculate n position from score list, n starts with 0

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  13. thectexperience

    thectexperience Chieftain

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    Another problem with the demographics that I've found is that they will offer clash with the updates that appear between turns: "most advanced Civ"; "most powerful Civ" etc...
    I pay close attention to the techs and I've seen fairly dramatic differences between number of techs on the demographics screen vs the one-off info update
    I find the advisor screen to be similarly inaccurate. I recently attempted a sword rush on the tech-crazed Sejong. My military advisor told me he just saw the only unit the Koreans had, but when I arrived a few turns later they had at least one pike for every one of my swords, plus catapults and some auxiliary archers etc
    The bottom line is that the lack of info sucks, but you best be aware of it
     
  14. craig123

    craig123 Chieftain

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    I see you've also posted this on CivFanatics. :cool:

    A minor point but n starts with 1.

    I've been thinking about this some more. Are you sure that 4000 is definitely the lowest possible rating. The reason I ask is that I wonder if the actual formula might be 2000 * n^0.5, and therefore the sequence would start: 2000, 2828, 3464, 4000, 4472, ...

    Perhaps the starting warrior takes the score up to 4000. If he is disbanded does it fall to 2000?

    I have no evidence for this, but I just can't work out why they would use n + 3 in the formula rather than just n.
     
  15. vexing

    vexing knows

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    the formula is just 2000*n^.5
    that gets rid of the funky -8 group subtraction that nefliqus was doing. multiple units just get their n values added together. also there is a lua command "getmilitarymight()" which returns the n value. i've been trying to figure out how the n value is gotten, here are some n values if someone else wants to give it a go:

    american minuteman 78
    aa gun 432
    at gun 277
    arabian camel 69
    archer 16
    aztec jaguar 21
    barb archer 19
    barb spear 27
    barb sword 44
    barb warrior 17
    battleship 115
    cannon 120
    caravel 13
    carrier 199
    catapult 39
    cavalry 173
    chariot archer 24
    chokunu 39
    crossbow 61
    destroyer 103
    egyptian warchariot 25
    english longbow 61
    galley 2
     
  16. chazzycat

    chazzycat Chieftain

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    I wonder if ships having such low comparative values has anything to do with the AI not building enough of them...
     
  17. craig123

    craig123 Chieftain

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    Wow, my hunch was right. Thanks vexing - how did you find that out btw?
     
  18. vexing

    vexing knows

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    two ways: first just looking at the values and the grouping math, it's a lot clearer to not have the magic 3 thrown in there. without it, groups can just be added together.

    second, i found the in game lua command getMilitaryMight. it returns a value that can be plugged directly in the formula 2000*n^.5 to get the demographics value. i listed the results of that command for a subset of units.
     
  19. vexing

    vexing knows

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    the formula for n seems to be (1.15 * combat strength) ^ 1.5
    this isn't exact, there are maybe two levels of truncation, but it fits the basic curve.

    there are additional percent modifiers for some subset of innate promotions, which i haven't figured out exactly. for example the jaguar and mohawk warrior both start at 25% higher than their counterparts, an anti tank gun starts at 25% above it's base 222 (277), while an anti aircraft gun starts at 95% above (432).

    additionally the % damage a unit has suffered is cut directly from its strength (ie an aa gun at 1 health is either 43 or 44)
     
  20. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Pô Chi Min

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    That explains why in mp game Iroquois and Aztecs are always on top in demographics even if you really try to build a bigger army. Especially Aztecs in the first 20 turns.

    Thanks vexing great info.
     

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