I suspect you're a Firaxian undercover and you're here to instill fear that, whenever a community insists on patch, some of the units will be stripped of useful abilities
Solver's unofficial BtS 3.17 patch
- Thread starter Solver
- Start date
I suspect you're a Firaxian undercover and you're here to instill fear that, whenever a community insists on patch, some of the units will be stripped of useful abilities
Balderstrom
Emperor
My recommended code, doesn't change Artillery at all
All it does is enable tanks to have 20/50/100% Collateral.
Artillery NoBarrage: 100% STR
Atrillery Barrage 1: 120% STR
Artillery Barrage 2: 150% STR
Artillery Barrage 3: 200% STR
Tank Barrage 1: 20% STR
Tank Barrage 2: 50% STR
Tank Barrage 3: 100% STR
40 STR @ 100% = 40, Tank
28 STR @ 200% = 56, Mobile Artillery
A 40 STR Tank, w/ Barrage III
is 70% as good as a Mobile Artillery w/ Barrage III
And its simplistic to reUse the Barrage graphics for a new "Shell" promotion that can add more collateral damage than Barrage does.
Of course SAMS are useful and even necessary to protect modern armor and pretty much kills whole debate on how they are over powered since any unit that needs protection from another unit to be effective can NOT be said to be overpowered or imbalanced or whatever
Kaytie
Pretty good solution imo if it's going to be a simple xml change in unitinfo to keep the barrage for those who want to.
Thanks for the reply about the amph assaults. I am all for making it more of a challenge (historicly amph assaults are not a walk in the park). However, on the AI side of things I'm more worried, the rate that the AI does amphibious assaults is fairly high, if they are on another land mass very high as apposed to them landing troops. I realize that they do some calculation to decide if they should land or amph assault.
So anyway, what I was asking before is, How difficult would it be to have the AI use Escort ships to bombard city defenses before the amph assault? Currently, they sometimes bring a navy to bombard a target city before the assault comes but once the transport stack gets there, the escorts of the stack do not bombard. In a case where they do not have a seperate navy bombarding ahead of time, they generally attack amphibiously against Full culture walls.
It seems to me that in any case the AI should be using it's escorts to bombard first, whether they land or amph assault. The only exception I could see is if their fleet is in danger and they want that extra movement point, but that is even shaky. It's just stupid that in an instance that they could take my city down to 0% with their escorts, they don't.
I also realize that the AI will give a new priority/mission to a fleet stack to attack navy or bombard after it's land units have disembarked, but this is not what I'm talking about exactly.
Bleh, hope I am clear enough to convey what I meant by all that hehe.
BTW in my defense, I never said that guided missles did collateral, I said it may be Interesting if they did, but possibly overpowered =P Also what I meant about using where aircraft can't get is if the enemy has a large airforce on intercept. Seems as if some people accusing others of not reading the thread, should umm, read the thread
Thanks for the reply about the amph assaults. I am all for making it more of a challenge (historicly amph assaults are not a walk in the park). However, on the AI side of things I'm more worried, the rate that the AI does amphibious assaults is fairly high, if they are on another land mass very high as apposed to them landing troops. I realize that they do some calculation to decide if they should land or amph assault.
So anyway, what I was asking before is, How difficult would it be to have the AI use Escort ships to bombard city defenses before the amph assault? Currently, they sometimes bring a navy to bombard a target city before the assault comes but once the transport stack gets there, the escorts of the stack do not bombard. In a case where they do not have a seperate navy bombarding ahead of time, they generally attack amphibiously against Full culture walls.
It seems to me that in any case the AI should be using it's escorts to bombard first, whether they land or amph assault. The only exception I could see is if their fleet is in danger and they want that extra movement point, but that is even shaky. It's just stupid that in an instance that they could take my city down to 0% with their escorts, they don't.
I also realize that the AI will give a new priority/mission to a fleet stack to attack navy or bombard after it's land units have disembarked, but this is not what I'm talking about exactly.
Bleh, hope I am clear enough to convey what I meant by all that hehe.
BTW in my defense, I never said that guided missles did collateral, I said it may be Interesting if they did, but possibly overpowered =P Also what I meant about using where aircraft can't get is if the enemy has a large airforce on intercept. Seems as if some people accusing others of not reading the thread, should umm, read the thread
Supr49er
2011 Thunderfall Cup
You've got to use Gunships vs. Modern Armor. I mean, who builds the Anti-Tank units anyway?
I've adapted the installer I had built for Bhruic's patch to Solver's - get it here.
Features:
Solver, perhaps you could add a link to the installer to your first post? Experience shows that links within these fast-moving patch threads have the tendency to get buried quickly.
- Install to core assets or as a mod
- Option to back up previous files
- Check if official 3.17 patch has been installed
(If you'd prefer to come up with your own installer, that'd be perfectly fine with me, too.
Thanks Grumbler, I really appreciate it!
Breunor
I'll quote Solver:
- IF YOU WANT TO KEEP BARRAGE ON TANKS JUST READ THE ABOVE -
Right, I was saying I'm in agreement with it. I suppose I should have added "I think it is a pretty good solution that you came up with" to make it more clear. I was using an incomplete sentence, I suppose it wasn't hard to misconstrue it
Balderstrom
Emperor
In my last game I wished I had built more of them, they upgrade to mechanized infantry and wind up with a free Ambush promotion.
Supr49er
2011 Thunderfall Cup
That's a clever use of them. Maybe I'll have to build some.Um, all I corrected was that you said you had to change an xml. All you really have to do is never install that xml file (Civ4PromotionInfos.xml).
I think I understood the rest of ur post pretty well, mister. The reason I put it in capital letters was so that everyone could see. Several people seem to have missed this.
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2004
- Messages
- 12,418
Actually the issue of using Str was the problem
a unit with STR 10 does NOT do 2x the damage a unit of STR 5 does
so by changing it so that Artillery gets +100% to bombard STR, you weaken Bombard.
DanF has the right idea
1st. calculate collateral damage based on STR v. STR alone
2nd. modify that collateral damage based on promotions+base collateral damage ability
so Modern Armor (40) v. Infantry (20)
step 1
10* (3*2+1)/(3*1+2)=14
step 2
14 hp * modifier [0+Barrage]
0 if Barrage 0
2 if Barrage 1
7 if Barrage 2
14 if Barrage 3
For an Artillery 18 v the Infantry 20
1st step
9 hp
2nd
9 hp* modifier [100%+Barrage]
9 if Barrage 0
11 if Barrage 1
14 if Barrage 2
18 if Barrage 3
so the Artillery at Barrage 2 would be as good as a Modern Armor Barrage 3
For a Tank 18 v the Infantry 20
1st step
11 hp
2nd
11 hp* modifier [100%+Barrage]
0 if Barrage 0
2 if Barrage 1
5 if Barrage 2
11 if Barrage 3
so only barrage 3 tank could beat the unpromoted Artillery
This Might mean you want to remove the Barrage promotion from Tanks still... (it being too powerful and a diversion from thier role)
Minor Annoyance
Deity
That was going to be my argument against the option of barrage for tanks being necessary. One could make barrage available for everything and under the theory of more options always being better that would be good, but no one is asking for it. If armour never had barrage as an option, would anyone be saying now that it should?
I am keeping Barrage away from armored units, but the collateral code still needs a fix.
Currently I'm going with iCollateralDamage = baseCombatStr() / 2. Trying out different combinations, I find that this would give Barrage-promoted Tanks (for those who want them
) collateral damage which is worse than that of Artillery, which I like, but certainly better that the very minimal collateral damage without any code changes.
That's hopefully enough to close the issue for the time being.
Currently I'm going with iCollateralDamage = baseCombatStr() / 2. Trying out different combinations, I find that this would give Barrage-promoted Tanks (for those who want them
) collateral damage which is worse than that of Artillery, which I like, but certainly better that the very minimal collateral damage without any code changes.That's hopefully enough to close the issue for the time being.
r_rolo1
King of myself
BTW solver ,a small sugestion... there is any way of making a AI more prone to redeploy her air force if the base city is in danger of being lost ( sort of the navy counterpart code you already have...)? I'm playing a huge WW II war against Khmer and was able to destroy at least half of his airforce by capturing 2 cities near the initial border....... with the planes unused .
