Balderstorm, I agree generally speaking. I'll leave Barrage unavailable for armored units but I'll change the combat code so that if people mod non-native collateral units in, they would work like that and make a bit more sense.
Solver's unofficial BtS 3.17 patch
- Thread starter Solver
- Start date
ICNP
The Third Superpower
What about the TXT issues? Should I just update BUG Mod or what?
Does this mean that just editing the XML to allow the promo for armored would make them work as Balderstorm outlined?
Paras are powerful enough. There is no need in making them "stronger a little". And of course, if they could attack in the same turn as they drop, they would be surely overpowered. There were many thread concerning paratroopers' tactics.
As for cruise missiles, I was surprised when I noticed they couldn't make collateral. But for now I'm sure that their power/cost is balanced. Every unit is going to die in the game. The matter is how much damage it will inflict before death. Cruise missile inflicts enough.
I think the main problem for now is tanks' barrage promotions. I don't have any strong opinion on that point, 'cause I could live without collateral damaging tanks. No much difference. If speed matters, I could use paras+aircrafts or CR tanks. Or if I need to avoid heavy casualties, I'll better wait for slow artillery support units to come to battle.
And one another point. But it is, most likely, experimental propose rather then bug fixing, I didn't decide yet. After removing anti-air weapons from stealth destroyer (I like this changing) water units become very vulnerable to air attacks. Because the only anti-air ship is Destroyer with its miserable 30% defense. May be it is needed to enable Intercept promotions for destroyer. (Or may be not. I think it is more experimental stuff rather then bug fixing)
Sorry for my poor English.
As for cruise missiles, I was surprised when I noticed they couldn't make collateral. But for now I'm sure that their power/cost is balanced. Every unit is going to die in the game. The matter is how much damage it will inflict before death. Cruise missile inflicts enough.
I think the main problem for now is tanks' barrage promotions. I don't have any strong opinion on that point, 'cause I could live without collateral damaging tanks. No much difference. If speed matters, I could use paras+aircrafts or CR tanks. Or if I need to avoid heavy casualties, I'll better wait for slow artillery support units to come to battle.
And one another point. But it is, most likely, experimental propose rather then bug fixing, I didn't decide yet. After removing anti-air weapons from stealth destroyer (I like this changing) water units become very vulnerable to air attacks. Because the only anti-air ship is Destroyer with its miserable 30% defense. May be it is needed to enable Intercept promotions for destroyer. (Or may be not. I think it is more experimental stuff rather then bug fixing)
Sorry for my poor English.
Wolfshanze
CFC Historian
Thank you Solver! Now I can keep track!
The TXT issues are not caused by the patch, but the BUG mods compatibility with the patch. It was brought up in this thread at post #2.
Roland Johansen
Deity
I think that's about perfect. It means that the BTS mods and other mods that use units that don't do collateral damage but can get barrage promotions still work well. And players who want tanks with strong barrage promotions can very easily mod them in.
Wolfshanze
CFC Historian
I also concur... I take it we'll see this improvement in v0.16?
Balderstrom
Emperor
Glad I could contribute for a change ;-) Someone usually finds a loophole to prove me wrong 
Hi
wow like pages of new responses while I was typing hehe. Since lots of people already covered what I said I wont repeat it just say add another thing bout gunships.
Not only are they str 48 vs armored which is enough to handle modern armor and it pretty much just clubbing baby seals if you send em against tanks. They are also a 5 move blitz promotable unit. and getting at least one city to get em that high out of the box isnt totally out of reach if you plan for it especially if you charismatic leader. That means on a awesome roll one gunship can take out 5 modern armor. But even just split diff and say it just kill two before it is too injured to get winnable odds anymore. Thats still taking out like 400-500 hammers worth of unit for like 160 or hammer unit PLUS unlike a pike or rifle vs cav it would STILL has 3 moves left which is enough to get em to retreat out of range of counter attack if there anything left.
And even if you cant get em to blitz they can STILL go with flanking promotions which a nullifies all first strikes a tank may have AND give em chance to retreat when they lose. And without blitz it still a great deal at 160 hammers for such a FAST unit.
That been why when I say I use tanks a lot I mean TANKS hehe. If game has gfone on so far that modern armer can be teched by then I am making TONS of gunships and promoting ALL those cavalry units and use them them along with bombers. It helps make battkles go fast and you can empty out several cities in turn then just take your sweet time sending in mechs or whatever to just walk in the empty cities.
PLUS best of all you get to hum. duh duh da da da duh duh da da da duh duh da DAAAAAHHHHH
As for txt.html thingy. They way emperor fool explained it is that older versions of of BUG mod did something that now causes that in 3.17 Now newest version of BUG doesnt conflict like that isnce it does that html part in a different way. HOWEVER since it IS a different way it never really changed what was left by the older versions it just kinda left it there and ignored it I guess. So even IF you have fully current and updated BUG mod if you EVER used a previous version to current one you need to fix it since THAT is what causing the xtml tages not to display right.
Two ways to fix it is to remove that old useless file left by older bug mod version or dump a new fix file rolo made in your custom assets folder. Grr I need to do a search to find it again I will edit in a few with link to it.
Kaytie
edit ok here is rolo's fix for anyone having problems with html tags displaying wrong. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6946414&postcount=9
Download that file and after you take it out of the zip just drop it in customassets/xml/text and then it should be all fixed
Kaytie
wow like pages of new responses while I was typing hehe. Since lots of people already covered what I said I wont repeat it just say add another thing bout gunships.
Not only are they str 48 vs armored which is enough to handle modern armor and it pretty much just clubbing baby seals if you send em against tanks. They are also a 5 move blitz promotable unit. and getting at least one city to get em that high out of the box isnt totally out of reach if you plan for it especially if you charismatic leader. That means on a awesome roll one gunship can take out 5 modern armor. But even just split diff and say it just kill two before it is too injured to get winnable odds anymore. Thats still taking out like 400-500 hammers worth of unit for like 160 or hammer unit PLUS unlike a pike or rifle vs cav it would STILL has 3 moves left which is enough to get em to retreat out of range of counter attack if there anything left.
And even if you cant get em to blitz they can STILL go with flanking promotions which a nullifies all first strikes a tank may have AND give em chance to retreat when they lose. And without blitz it still a great deal at 160 hammers for such a FAST unit.
That been why when I say I use tanks a lot I mean TANKS hehe. If game has gfone on so far that modern armer can be teched by then I am making TONS of gunships and promoting ALL those cavalry units and use them them along with bombers. It helps make battkles go fast and you can empty out several cities in turn then just take your sweet time sending in mechs or whatever to just walk in the empty cities.
PLUS best of all you get to hum. duh duh da da da duh duh da da da duh duh da DAAAAAHHHHH
As for txt.html thingy. They way emperor fool explained it is that older versions of of BUG mod did something that now causes that in 3.17 Now newest version of BUG doesnt conflict like that isnce it does that html part in a different way. HOWEVER since it IS a different way it never really changed what was left by the older versions it just kinda left it there and ignored it I guess. So even IF you have fully current and updated BUG mod if you EVER used a previous version to current one you need to fix it since THAT is what causing the xtml tages not to display right.
Two ways to fix it is to remove that old useless file left by older bug mod version or dump a new fix file rolo made in your custom assets folder. Grr I need to do a search to find it again I will edit in a few with link to it.
Kaytie
edit ok here is rolo's fix for anyone having problems with html tags displaying wrong. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6946414&postcount=9
Download that file and after you take it out of the zip just drop it in customassets/xml/text and then it should be all fixed
Kaytie
DanF5771
Emperor
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2008
- Messages
- 1,194
Glad I could contribute for a change ;-) Someone usually finds a loophole to prove me wrong
Here it comes:
The way you suggest it leads to huge differences between an ordinary BarrageI Tank (20% ExtraCollDmg) and a modded Tank that starts with a little native CollDmg of 20%.
The ordinary BI Tank will take 3 HPs away from a Longbow (unrealistic example I know) wheres the modded Tank will lower his health by 9 HPs!
Its all in the nonlinear formula.
IMHO the iCollateralStrength should be set to baseCombatStr for all units and all modifications (promotion, native CollDmg ability) applied afterwards to the calculated HPs (look at my example code).
But I'm glad that Solver changed his mind.
There is your problem with warfare double-K...you're killing them with kindness. Enough of your kinky gunship/tank erotocism. Kill the tanks, interunit relationships never work. What would the neighbors say?
DrJambo
Crash-test dummy
The fact tanks are city raider capable is more overpowering than the barrage promotion. Like others have intimated, I'd like to have seen city raider also being removed from tanks and perhaps it being given to one of the other underused infantry types.
