some kind of glitch? (Corps costs)

[phillip1882]

civ jewelers is costing me more than helping


Moderator Action: Moved to S&T. I do not believe this is a technical issue. (Note: Title edited) Cheers - lymond

 

[lymond]

Honestly, I do not use corps very much at all. What I believe I do know is there is a cost/benefit to them, which can be greatly offset by founding the corps in your Wall Street city with market/grocers. All towns that have corps will have significantly higher maintenance costs. All these cities should have courthouses to reduce those costs. I believe one can actually make money from corps if done right, but folks with more experience may chime in with much better insight than me.

 

[antimony]

Corps are supposed to cost maintenance to the cities they are in, in exchange for some benefit, and provide gold to the headquarters. Civ jewelers is giving you culture for that maintenance you spend, even if it gives you some gold back, it's not really a good gold making option unless you spread it to foreign cities.

See wiki page here:

Corporation Strategy (Civ4)

Corporations have the potential to be a very powerful addition to your empire, potentially so powerful that they can turn a loss into a win. This article lays out some general rules about using corporations, and outlines some corporation strategies. There are a couple of things that are 99%...

civilization.fandom.com

 

[civac]

That Civilized Jeweller spread is already positive if you count the +12 gold from the headquarters in your Wallstreet city. Next you can reduce the corp cost by half with a courthouse (but inflation increases it again, that has to be taken into account). Finally, the extra gold from the corp is likely multiplied by banks and the like (at least Mining hammers are). If your cities are set up properly the corp should be strong positive. Having said that the real point of Civilized Jewellers is to support a culture victory. If you are not going for that this particular corp is not worth the Great Person you need to found it.

 

[Gwaja]

Civ Jewelers are only useful for Culture victory, though it can make you lot of money if you spread it to AI. Just have to be selective and not spread it to those prone to going for Culture, like Mansa, Pacal, etc. HQ should be equipped with all the money enhancing buildings and wonders as well. For foreign spread, I prefer Aluminum Co, spreading it to AI that are either so backward or ones that already have aluminum and cannot take advantage of it. For domestic, Sid's Sushi and Mining Inc are best, though if you put those 2 in a city, I believe you cannot put more corps in that city unless you replace the aforementioned.

 

[NickGabben]

You can never replace a corporate headquarter with a competing corporation (i.e., it's not possible to found Mining Inc. and Creative Constructions in the same city). It's not even possible to spread CC to the MI headquarter (or vice versa). So, once a corp has been founded, it will always be in at least one city - unless the HQ city is razed, of course.

 

[Gwaja]

Typed on a phone so I see that I said "in a HQ city" when I meant to say just "in a city." You are correct that HQ can never be replaced with competing corporations, but a normal city with a corporation that was spread there can have any competing corporation replaced, but at a higher cost.

Courthouses are an absolute must if you plan to found or spread corporations. Organized leaders benefit obviously, and Rathaus and Ikhanda further boost the maintenance reduction as well.

 

[floydmcw]

Civ Jewelers are only useful for Culture victory,

Civ Jewelers isn't useful for that either. That artist that founded Civ Jewelers could have been used for 4000 culture points. CJ produces 4 culture for each gold/silver/gem; assuming very favorable conditions (5 of the resource, +200% culture) it would take 67 turns to break even. (And Mass Media comes late, so this isn't a time to make a long-term investment.)

For domestic, Sid's Sushi and Mining Inc are best, though if you put those 2 in a city, I believe you cannot put more corps in that city unless you replace the aforementioned.

I don't think there's a numerical limit, but corps that consume the same resources exclude each other. Sid's excludes Std Ethanol and Cereal Mills (both of which consume rice); MI excludes CreCon (copper and iron), CJ (gold and silver), and Aluminum Inc (coal).

 

[floydmcw]

Civ Jewelers isn't useful for that either. That artist that founded Civ Jewelers could have been used for 4000 culture points. CJ produces 4 culture for each gold/silver/gem; assuming very favorable conditions (5 of the resource, +200% culture) it would take 67 turns to break even. (And Mass Media comes late, so this isn't a time to make a long-term investment.)

Maybe I should have looked at the screenshot that shows Civ Jewelers producing 106 culture. (Which isn't divisible by 4; T468/1878 sounds like Epic so maybe there's scaling, but 106 isn't divisible by 6 either.)

Still, I stand by what I said; if you have enough gold, silver, gems to produce 106 culture from Civ Jewelers you really shouldn't need to start your culture victory, or any victory, in the 19th century.

 

[civac]

You'd have more than +200% in a culture attempt. Also you get the effect in all your culture cities. So you can double or triple the output.

 

[Gwaja]

@floydmcw

On vacation and typing on phone, so I can't provide screenshots, but I beg to disagree. That 4000 culture bomb you say only applies to ONE city.... 4000 out of 50,000 required with no modifiers? And who is to say that you shouldn't tech while going for culture? Not on Deity, no, but on Immortal, more than doable. It is such an old way of thinking that you should stop teching entirely if going for culture. By this time, you would have already made up your mind that you were going for culture anyway. It is a victory condition in which it needs to be prepared way way earlier in the game. With that in mind, Civ Jewelers works wonders and can be extremely overpowering, because it can also effectively be spread to AI that you don't need to worry about the possibility of them going for culture themselves. In a properly set up Wall Street city, default 12 gold per turn plus the extra gold it generates per city isn't shabby if enough investments are made to spread the corp around. And that helps translate into more permanent high culture slider.

No, there is no numerical limit on corporations. I only said you can only put "Sid's Sushi and Mining, Inc" combo in one city, due to the competing nature of corporations. If you want as many corporations in a city as possible, you can literally go nuts with as many as 4 I believe: Sid's Sushi. Creative Construction, Civ Jewelers, and Aluminum Co., all of which, in combination, boost massive culture bonus.

 

[antimony]

I think Sushi would be the priority for culture w/ corps: per resource bonus of +2 culture, but also the +0.5 food is 1/4 of an artist (so +1 culture, +1.5 with Sistine). Not to mention seafood +rice is probably more common than precious metals on most maps, and extra food can help in all cities (for great artists) instead of just your top 3. Sushi also has a relatively cheap tech path and Economics (on the way to Corporations) guarantees the great merchant to found it.

The corporations approach to culture is probably more competitive on slower speeds given the extra time to grab land + resources and the higher culture needed to reach legendary.

 

[Gwaja]

Sid's Sushi is absolutely the best corporation for Culture. It makes Cereal Mills look terrible on most maps. Civ Jewelers I like to spread to AI, the likes of Shaka who could care less about some culture.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

civ jewelers is costing me more than helping

I looked at the screenshot. The (gold --> food) and (gold --> culture) conversion ratio is the best in the game.

How much gold do you think one food or one culture is worth?