Sonehenge

[6K Man]

I think we are arguing semantics when it comes to the "free" monuments.

All Stonehenge does is provide a monument in each city. If it had some other benefit (yeah, yeah, I'm discounting the Priest GPP and the culture) then it would be more fair to say the monuments were 'free'. As it is, they're the only reason the vast majority of us would ever consider building Stonehenge.

As for building it, I used to love it, now I love early second and third cities more. I have never hit a sweet spot where I was both Industrious and had Stone... if I did, I might build it again. And Pyramids.

 

[slobberinbear]

Er . . . cheap workers? He's Organized and Creative, isn't he?

Yes, my bad. Still, cheap libraries, lighthouses and the rest are nice boons.

 

[GreenShift84]

I think we are arguing semantics when it comes to the "free" monuments.

All Stonehenge does is provide a monument in each city. If it had some other benefit (yeah, yeah, I'm discounting the Priest GPP and the culture) then it would be more fair to say the monuments were 'free'. As it is, they're the only reason the vast majority of us would ever consider building Stonehenge.

As for building it, I used to love it, now I love early second and third cities more. I have never hit a sweet spot where I was both Industrious and had Stone... if I did, I might build it again. And Pyramids.

Semantics- 1: the study of meanings: a: the historical and psychological study and the classification of changes in the signification of words or forms viewed as factors in linguistic development

This is clearly a discussion of semantics, but that doesn't make it irrelevant (as most people imply when they say "arguing semantics"). However I wholeheartedly agree about the earlier second and third cities. For that reason, the only time I usually build SH is after settling 3+ cities, with no immediate need for other cities/units and possibly a spare worker and forests to chop...so in other words almost never (And even then the build was most likely intended for failure gold)

 

[azzaman333]

I think we are arguing semantics when it comes to the "free" monuments.

All Stonehenge does is provide a monument in each city. If it had some other benefit (yeah, yeah, I'm discounting the Priest GPP and the culture) then it would be more fair to say the monuments were 'free'. As it is, they're the only reason the vast majority of us would ever consider building Stonehenge.

As for building it, I used to love it, now I love early second and third cities more. I have never hit a sweet spot where I was both Industrious and had Stone... if I did, I might build it again. And Pyramids.

Actually, monuments in every city is rarely why I'd want to build Stonehenge. The culture and the Priest GPP are more important to me if I'm going to build it.

 

[andersw]

Actually, monuments in every city is rarely why I'd want to build Stonehenge. The culture and the Priest GPP are more important to me if I'm going to build it.

Yes, the early settled great priest is a nice helper for the economy at a time when research begins to stifle.

Funny (read because I'm a slow learner) enough I realised in a recent game how powerful charismatic+SH+swords were (hannibal/prince).

 

[6K Man]

You learn something everyday... I always considered Priest GPP an unwelcome dilution of Engineer, Spy, or Scientist GPP.

Considered in that light, I suppose the monuments are free.

 

[Absolute Zero]

Priests are the earliest, most convenient, and sometimes the only viable GPs to pop in the very beginning of the game, with the two often-built wonders Stonehenge and Oracle giving Priest GPP. However the GPP can be a problem later on when other GP are more desirable. It's a choice between early Great Prophet(s) which can drown out later GPs, or waiting a little, but being able to get other types without interference.

Just curious though, what's so good about Great Spies? I thought the general opinion is that they're one of the worse GPs.

 

[Bandobras Took]

An early great spy+infiltration+alphabet=your enemy does most of the early game research for you.

 

[azzaman333]

Priests are the earliest, most convenient, and sometimes the only viable GPs to pop in the very beginning of the game, with the two often-built wonders Stonehenge and Oracle giving Priest GPP. However the GPP can be a problem later on when other GP are more desirable. It's a choice between early Great Prophet(s) which can drown out later GPs, or waiting a little, but being able to get other types without interference.

Just curious though, what's so good about Great Spies? I thought the general opinion is that they're one of the worse GPs.

Generally I'll have a better GP factory up later that won't be producing Priests instead.

 

[Malchar]

As for the GPP contamination, your choice can depend on how good your capital is (or where ever you build the henge). If you have a capital that would be a great GP farm later, you might want to pass on the henge so as not to contaminate your future GP pool. If your capital is sub-par for GPP in general, then it would be fine to build the henge because there's no expected contamination.

Then again, in the first case, it's still ok to have some priest GPP going into your GP farm if you don't care too much about what the GP's will be. This can be useful if you want to farm golden ages and need a variety of different GP's. In fact, the henge is one of the most reliable sources of priests, since you cannot work an arbitrary number of priests with caste system. That is, you can always get merchants, artists, and scientists, but if you need a priest, it's a huge help if you have stonehenge.

 

[6K Man]

An early great spy+infiltration+alphabet=your enemy does most of the early game research for you.

This.

Alternatively, if you have enough EP you don't need to bombard defenses. Helpful when (as often happens to me) you run out of Catapults.

 

[mariogreymist]

I also used to think early great spies to be nearly worthless, but it is far from the case (except in pure isolation). Stealing techs early on can be just ridiculous, and you can run a sword/axe/HA invasion without cats (or with very few) throughout the classical period with a single infiltrated Great Spy. I have, on occasion, chopped out the GWall for this purpose (G spy infiltration) alone.

Early Great prophets can be very useful though as well, in the right circumstances (can found Christianity or build a shrine in a rushed holy city).