Sons of Mars IV

[arya126]

Japan, back down unless you want a friendly blockade outside your ports. The Children of Light will not see such obvious power hungry warmongers take what is rightfully the property of either New England or the CSA. It is for them to work out, not you. Maybe if you end up making a presence in the Americas will a claim be substantiated, but you have no business there.

 

[Ailedhoo]

Japan, back down unless you want a friendly blockade outside your ports. The Children of Light will not see such obvious power hungry warmongers take what is rightfully the property of either New England or the CSA. It is for them to work out, not you. Maybe if you end up making a presence in the Americas will a claim be substantiated, but you have no business there.

You lack a justification to be in business over this. Blockades are actions performed in war, not peace. New England and the CSA are of the former USA and hence have no right to claim Panama above us. Our hunger is the same as many other nations and Panama was targettign for its trade consideration.

Any rate: we remind the Citadel of Light that we have alliances with New England (who has let to make voice in this matter) and Arstotzka. It would be unwise to declare plots of aggression against Japan and a blockade would be a action of war. Embargoes at least can be done peacefully and hurt both the issued and the issuer due to trade. Threatening to blockade like your doing is rather warmongering, especially as we are not threatening to gun down the CSA. We suggest you stop being a savage by not meddling in American-Asian affairs or does Italy really want to lose its position, especially as they are far from Japan and Panama but are not too far from our friends in Arstotkza who might enjoy making Rome among their land if the situation between us decays to brutal levels?

In the end Italy has not busy in the arguments between (Euro-)Americans and Asians. If you do wish involvement then learn from the Zulu; they are proving much grander in diplomacy and we will hence ensure the Zulu that if Japan takes Panama then it would be in our interests to keep the cannel open. Perhaps if the CSA are complaining about us taking from the Americans then we could consider the idea of seeing Panama run by native Americans who can then rule the region for the benefit of the land.

 

[Dem Taqat]

Before this all runs out of hand, may the Chief of the Zulu humbly mention that the best idea for the Panama canal would be to make it neutral territory and open to all, not just one specific foreign power?

The Nice Federation would be in favour of the creation of a neutral authority to manage the Panama Canal, and is willing to assist in the creation of such a thing should that prove necessary.

DT

 

[KaiserElectric]

The Aidanu Magocracy also supports the creation of a neutral authority, as a war would almost certainly leave the canal in ruins.

 

[Ailedhoo]

Japan's corporations see no harm in creating a neutral entity in Panama; that way Japan can still use the cannel for commercial benefit but from corporate doings instead of physical conquest.

 

[arya126]

Japan's corporations see no harm in creating a neutral entity in Panama; that way Japan can still use the cannel for commercial benefit but from corporate doings instead of physical conquest.

You would be able to use it either way unless the n at ion in question sealed it off from you, likely considering how belligerent you were until that last post.

Also, it was merely a simple statement we made before. There were no connotations to it.

 

[Tani Coyote]

Now the question... shall the canal be fully independent, or shall the nation in question basically be a corporation where each state has one vote?

Never mind the big one of who shall be trusted to occupy it and then turn it over to said neutral state's authority?

 

[GenMarshall]

To the leadership of England.

My will and consent of my parliament, military, corporations and advisors I agree to the idea of improving our trade, as well as the acceptance of a defence pact. I am open to an alliance and for insurance that the Panama Cannel will one day be Japanese so that our trade network will be strong as the suns rises.

May your empire shine as bright as mine.

The Empress of Nippon.

Our position in regards to the Panama Canal is neutral due enpart of still viewing and honoring the Torrijos-Carter Treaties in the pre-Catyclysm era, which the pre-Catyclysm America transferred the control of the Canal to Panama. As well as having no interest in that area. Given that Panama has been, swept away by the catyclysm. We feel that the canal is up for grabs and would have no issue with Japan operating the canals. Though given the controversial debate that sprung up that started when the CSA brought it up, perhaps a proposal (or compromise) can be made that would benifit all parties and not russle up anyone's Monroe Doctrine. The idea that I had in mind for the Panama Canal would be a set up of a multi-national corporation to maintain the Panama Canal Zone.

To: Japan

I object to this!

The Panama Canal, since it was built by Americans, rightfully belongs to either the CSA, or New England, or the people of Panama, and with the CSA's Proximity to the Caribbean, it will be far easier for the CSA to maintain and administer than either New England, or Japan.

I request that her majesty, the Empress of Nippon, focus on territory's closer to her home to attempt to administer over, and not the lands of America.

-President President Alec Perry

OOC: I hate to sound like Dach here, but the Panama Canal was given to Panamanian control in 1999 under the Torrijos-Carter Treaties of 1977. Yes, it was built majorly by Americans with American investments (The French started construction in 1881). So technically (since Panama or it's expy in this game does not exist), the Panama Canal is up for grabs in this game, or delegated as a neutral territory. Though I doubt Fallout lore would even touch base on that little detail given it's major backstory focus on the Sino-American war of 2052 (aka The Resource Wars and eventually the Great War (Not to be confused with World War I)) .

 

[Terran Empress]

Our position in regards to the Panama Canal is neutral due enpart of still viewing and honoring the Torrijos-Carter Treaties in the pre-Catyclysm era, which the pre-Catyclysm America transferred the control of the Canal to Panama. As well as having no interest in that area. Given that Panama has been, swept away by the catyclysm. We feel that the canal is up for grabs and would have no issue with Japan operating the canals. Though given the controversial debate that sprung up that started when the CSA brought it up, perhaps a proposal (or compromise) can be made that would benifit all parties and not russle up anyone's Monroe Doctrine. The idea that I had in mind for the Panama Canal would be a set up of a multi-national corporation to maintain the Panama Canal Zone.

The Creation of an Independent Panama is acceptable to myself, I also support New England's proposal, with one minor change. If each nation gets one vote, I believe there should be three more votes. 1 for New England, as the Americans who built the canal, 1 for the CSA as the traffic through the Caribbean will affect my nation the most, either for good or for ill, and 1 for Japan because of their claim.

This is subject to change of course, and if no one agrees that this is fair, one vote for each nation is perfectly fine as well. These extra votes were given because the nations in question will be affected the most through a neutral canal that can and will allow any shipping through its gates.

Finally I wish to announce that the Antilles Archipelago, both the Greater and Lesser Antilles, are under the Official Protection of the CSA, any invasion of those territories will be considered an act of hostility towards the CSA.

-President Alec Perry

OOC: I hate to sound like Dach here, but the Panama Canal was given to Panamanian control in 1999 under the Torrijos-Carter Treaties of 1977. Yes, it was built majorly by Americans with American investments (The French started construction in 1881). So technically (since Panama or it's expy in this game does not exist), the Panama Canal is up for grabs in this game, or delegated as a neutral territory. Though I doubt Fallout lore would even touch base on that little detail given it's major backstory focus on the Sino-American war of 2052 (aka The Resource Wars and eventually the Great War (Not to be confused with World War I)) .

OOC: Thank you for that info, also I do enjoy how you took that my one picture of Washington DC from Fallout 3 ended up equaling that the Fallout universe happened, I wasn't expecting that, and it has made this game more interesting IMO, thank you for doing that.

 

[arya126]

Why do nations need a vote at all? Why can it not simply be operated by the locals as it presumably has been ever since the Old Age? If they abuse it by closing it to a nation or group then a multinational force can be brought to bear to restore the neutrality, and if a different nation invades, we can all agree to declare war on that nation in order to restore the neutrality. I see no reason why we should make it the property of a corporation if a nation is not to have it. A company owning territory outside of a nation is simply preposterous.

OOC: Keep the territory neutral so as to prevent any one nation or company being refused access or gaining control.

 

[Tani Coyote]

GMnut gallery:

Well, there is the fact that being a "shareholder" would guarantee nations a cut of the lucrative profits from the canal...

Lock in 21 hours.

 

[Ailedhoo]

Japanese corporations once more supports the neutrality of the governance of Panama.

OOC: Panama is best made a NPC, along with other unclaimed vital sea route land areas. No tp leaving it unclaimed; GM makes a NPC out of it instead.

 

[Tani Coyote]

Now about that Suez that Christosian Egypt controls...

 

[Ailedhoo]

Now about that Suez that Christosian Egypt controls...

Make Abyssinia control the other parts of the Red Sea

 

[Dem Taqat]

Now the question... shall the canal be fully independent, or shall the nation in question basically be a corporation where each state has one vote?

Never mind the big one of who shall be trusted to occupy it and then turn it over to said neutral state's authority?

Nice would prefer a corporation-dominated state, since one focusing on profits instead of politics would not have reason to close the straits to any nation. As to who would be entrusted with the creation of the state, we believe the CSA would be acceptable, as well as the most logical choice due to comparative logistical ease. Should the rest of the world not accept this, we are willing to forward ourselves as a candidate.

The Creation of an Independent Panama is acceptable to myself, I also support New England's proposal, with one minor change. If each nation gets one vote, I believe there should be three more votes. 1 for New England, as the Americans who built the canal, 1 for the CSA as the traffic through the Caribbean will affect my nation the most, either for good or for ill, and 1 for Japan because of their claim.

This is subject to change of course, and if no one agrees that this is fair, one vote for each nation is perfectly fine as well. These extra votes were given because the nations in question will be affected the most through a neutral canal that can and will allow any shipping through its gates.

Whilst the Nice Federation accepts that the American states, as the closest nations and therefore the most logical claimants, might be granted special privileges, we see no reason for Japan to receive those same privileges. It has no special claim to the area that could not be made by all the other states of Asia, Europe, and Africa, and therefore should not be granted additional votes for reasons of it's loud voice. We find it highly likely that several other states in these regions had designs on Panama, and simply did not voice them because they had the foresight to see it would create just such a diplomatic incident as this which would leave those plans floating in tattered ruins on the wind.

And no, we will not comment on whether Nice had such plans and thought processes.

DT

 

[Ailedhoo]

Nice would prefer a corporation-dominated state, since one focusing on profits instead of politics would not have reason to close the straits to any nation. As to who would be entrusted with the creation of the state, we believe the CSA would be acceptable, as well as the most logical choice due to comparative logistical ease. Should the rest of the world not accept this, we are willing to forward ourselves as a candidate.



Whilst the Nice Federation accepts that the American states, as the closest nations and therefore the most logical claimants, might be granted special privileges, we see no reason for Japan to receive those same privileges. It has no special claim to the area that could not be made by all the other states of Asia, Europe, and Africa, and therefore should not be granted additional votes for reasons of it's loud voice. We find it highly likely that several other states in these regions had designs on Panama, and simply did not voice them because they had the foresight to see it would create just such a diplomatic incident as this which would leave those plans floating in tattered ruins on the wind.

And no, we will not comment on whether Nice had such plans and thought processes.

DT

Japan opposes the idea of privileges! Is Panama a neutral route or a CSA puppet? With rumours that the CSA may or may not be plotting a alliance with Mongolia it is needed that Panama be made neutral so that Japan may access through well. The CSA has the same claimant rights to Panama as Japan as Panama is of Central America, as well as finding it insulting that Japan's ally New England is being left out of "privilege" talks. If you want a "grand protector" then make it that both the CSA and New England are the protectors, not one but both. That way you will avoid tensions over trade. Better yet: Panama be its own power that will refuse the protection of any state save all; by that it will be Swiss in approach.

What ever the case Panama is best neutral and not favouring to any nation save itself.

 

[Dem Taqat]

I believe there should be three more votes. 1 for New England, as the Americans who built the canal, 1 for the CSA as the traffic through the Caribbean will affect my nation the most, either for good or for ill, and 1 for Japan because of their claim.

Whilst the Nice Federation accepts that the American states, as the closest nations and therefore the most logical claimants, might be granted special privileges

Japan opposes the idea of privileges! Is Panama a neutral route or a CSA puppet? With rumours that the CSA may or may not be plotting a alliance with Mongolia it is needed that Panama be made neutral so that Japan may access through well. The CSA has the same claimant rights to Panama as Japan as Panama is of Central America, as well as finding it insulting that Japan's ally New England is being left out of "privilege" talks. If you want a "grand protector" then make it that both the CSA and New England are the protectors, not one but both. That way you will avoid tensions over trade. Better yet: Panama be its own power that will refuse the protection of any state save all; by that it will be Swiss in approach.

Japan should note that both the Nice Federation and the CSA supported the idea of New England having a greater-than-average say in the Panama zone, equal to the rights of the CSA. However, the Nice Federation agrees that it would be less contentious for the Panama Zone to be completely neutral in terms of international involvement.

DT

 

[Tani Coyote]

Lock in an unlucky 13 hours, my friends.

Orders needed from:

NedimNapoleon
Christos200
Sonereal
Double A
Red_Spy

The rainbow has been spared on the basis of incentivising them.

 

[Terran Empress]

The rainbow has been spared on the basis of incentivising them.

OOC:
this this right here made my day, and I just woke up.

thank you tani

 

[KaiserElectric]

Lock in an unlucky 13 hours, my friends.

Orders needed from:

NedimNapoleon
Christos200
Sonereal
Double A
Red_Spy

The rainbow has been spared on the basis of incentivising them.

Hopefully I finish my RP beforehand. It'll be close.