Sooo... Happiness.

[Moi Magnus]

So @BiteInTheMark is right, that after 300 turns, a value can be at most 4.465 (1.005 ^ 300) times higher?

You forgot a zero.
If we look at the total maximum grow, its like this: 1 * 1.0005^300 = 1,1618 (The 4 was randomly chosen)
If the median can only grow with a maximum of 0.05% per turn, after 300 turns, the median cant rise more than 16,18%, starting with the beginning of the game. Which sounds a bit weird and unrealistic.

Btw. I checked the cities again with the help of firetuner and auto turn (thanks Gazebo), and again.... at turn 268, 12 cities from 33 are using processes.

G said "Yields are managed in the hundreds, so .05 is correct.", and by this sentence I think G means that it is 0.05%*100 (since it is "in the hundreds"), so 5% in practice.

It leads to a more reasonnable result.

 

[ilteroi]

somebody summoned me?

anyway, i think you guys misunderstood the 5% thing. what's happening is a simple low pass filtering of the yield threshold.

to be more explicit: t_new = 0.95*t_old + 0.05*current_median (or similar)

this is to prevent sudden changes. the result is indeed very smooth. any sudden happiness changes come from modifiers (ie tech level) applied afterwards.

 

[myles718]

What is happening to the Happiness situation ?

Now in my 4th game. Gave up on the other 3 as Happiness went up -75

In this game went from 2 to -2 Then next turn I received a GM is went to -20

Next turn I received a GW Happiness went to -33

Next turn entered a new Era it went to -50

In those turns I lost 8 internal trade routes out of 10 of which none where going to affect cities under attack from uprising barbarians

 

[Moi Magnus]

What is happening to the Happiness situation ?

Now in my 4th game. Gave up on the other 3 as Happiness went up -75

In this game went from 2 to -2 Then next turn I received a GM is went to -20

Next turn I received a GW Happiness went to -33

Next turn entered a new Era it went to -50

In those turns I lost 8 internal trade routes out of 10 of which none where going to affect cities under attack from uprising barbarians

Did you apply the fix:

C:\Users\(your user name)\Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\MODS\(2) Community Balance Overhaul\Modular Elements\Happiness Mod\CityHappiness

FIND: 'BALANCE_HAPPINESS_TECH_BASE_MODIFIER', '1.0'

REPLACE: 'BALANCE_HAPPINESS_TECH_BASE_MODIFIER', '0.1'

 

[myles718]

Cheers I try again

 

[Stalker0]

A bug I've noticed that I'm going to report, is that there seems to be a scenario where Famine "just happens" sometimes. I've seen several of my cities just go into negative food for some reason. But as soon as I hover over the city it corrects itself. That has cratered my happiness, but once I apply the "fix" it goes back to normal.

What I'm not sure of if that is just a visual bug (meaning my yields are fine its just showing them wrong) or if it actually is affecting my yields.

 

[CppMaster]

A bug I've noticed that I'm going to report, is that there seems to be a scenario where Famine "just happens" sometimes. I've seen several of my cities just go into negative food for some reason. But as soon as I hover over the city it corrects itself. That has cratered my happiness, but once I apply the "fix" it goes back to normal.

What I'm not sure of if that is just a visual bug (meaning my yields are fine its just showing them wrong) or if it actually is affecting my yields.

It maybe that you have advanced to next era, so specialists consume more food, but city governors hasn't been updated yet.

 

[tu_79]

A bug I've noticed that I'm going to report, is that there seems to be a scenario where Famine "just happens" sometimes. I've seen several of my cities just go into negative food for some reason. But as soon as I hover over the city it corrects itself. That has cratered my happiness, but once I apply the "fix" it goes back to normal.

What I'm not sure of if that is just a visual bug (meaning my yields are fine its just showing them wrong) or if it actually is affecting my yields.

G explained this to me a while ago. The stuff you are seeing in the city banner is not what it will end up being. When you hover over the city, city manager is updated and it chooses the right assignments. If you don't hover over the city, city manager will update just at the end of the turn, so they values you are seeing while making your orders are probably going to be better.

 

[pza]

I'll revive this thread, because i just experienced a drop from +6 happiness to -86 in one turn, on 18 cities, without beeing tech leader. i uploaded the savegame (played on my 19-9 modpack).
some things to point out:
- golden age is running out
- a new era is beeing entered.
- almost all cities are completely developed.

nothing else really, i think.

 

[tu_79]

I'll revive this thread, because i just experienced a drop from +6 happiness to -86 in one turn, on 18 cities, without beeing tech leader. i uploaded the savegame (played on my 19-9 modpack).
some things to point out:
- golden age is running out
- a new era is beeing entered.
- almost all cities are completely developed.

nothing else really, i think.

Other things to watch for:
Lost friendly/allied status for city states.
Newborn citizens.
Last turn of trade routes.
Incoming trade routes changing destination.
Religion being spread into your empire.
End of an event.
Worker placement still not updated.

And bugs.

 

[76ers]

I'll revive this thread, because i just experienced a drop from +6 happiness to -86 in one turn, on 18 cities, without beeing tech leader. i uploaded the savegame (played on my 19-9 modpack).
some things to point out:
- golden age is running out
- a new era is beeing entered.
- almost all cities are completely developed.

nothing else really, i think.

I'm doing an AI only deity game right now and the Celts happiness is out of control bad too. -162 on one turn. Jumps to -131 on the next, down to -146 on the turn after, followed by -161. It might because it is an AI only game though. I wanted to do a tournament of 1 vs 1 AI only games using Vox Populi but the happiness wouldn't allow it. I noticed both Civs would be in the red and as I test I built a 1 tile island and planted a city for the Civ I was using to watch the game. Doing that immediately fixed their happiness.

 

[pza]

Other things to watch for:
Lost friendly/allied status for city states.
Newborn citizens.
Last turn of trade routes.
Incoming trade routes changing destination.
Religion being spread into your empire.
End of an event.
Worker placement still not updated.

And bugs.

thanks for the reply, but i checked that. it's really just that reaching a certain tech distance from assyria, which is fourth place out of 6. as soon as they caught up (4 or less techs behind), it was back to "okay" levels. a couple turns later i managed to get to -152 happiness out of 383 total population, and that went back to around 0 in less than 10 turns.

tbh, this is a very annoying very major issue that i bet is (maybe deeply) rooted in the yield comparison system.

I'm doing an AI only deity game right now and the Celts happiness is out of control bad too. -162 on one turn. Jumps to -131 on the next, down to -146 on the turn after, followed by -161. It might because it is an AI only game though. I wanted to do a tournament of 1 vs 1 AI only games using Vox Populi but the happiness wouldn't allow it. I noticed both Civs would be in the red and as I test I built a 1 tile island and planted a city for the Civ I was using to watch the game. Doing that immediately fixed their happiness.

While this is very interesting i would argue that inserting a new civ messes with the median, which is the base comparison point for the yields. i'm not entirely sure on this. I bet it would be nice to recalculate manually every source of unhappiness, comparing two turns.
At least it would be nice to know what the player suffering this unhappiness could do to prevent or fix his unhappiness problem. I'm currently trying "delay techs", which seems dumb and unintuitive, as i'm going for space ship, and the celts which are tech leaders, aren't suffering that badly.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

In my games a big happiness drop always occur with entering the industrial age. 20 or 30 less happiness wit a 6-9 city empire.
Half year ago, the need reductions of industrial age buildings were around 40-50%, instead now 70%. One year ago, those buildings only reduced the needs by 20-30%. And all time it was ok with happiness.
I think the needs are increasing now too drastically, and the only solution G is picking is increasing need reductions by buildings. If we change the algorithm to less need growth but also less need reduction by buildings, we are at the same spot, but with much less happiness jumps.
G could have done this in previous versions already, but I have no clue why hes strictly against easy solutions. :/

 

[CrazyG]

G could have done this in previous versions already, but I have no clue why hes strictly against easy solutions. :/

Want to know a good way to have a decent idea be ignored?

 

[BiteInTheMark]

Want to know a good way to have a decent idea be ignored?

No clue. But it looks like he prefers raising values all the time, or completly rework things if this didnt work. Like he has done with unhappiness by lack of city defence. Or the way how illiteracy is handled.

Ask yourself why those late buildings have now such big need decrease in comparison to former versions.

 

[tu_79]

No clue. But it looks like he prefers raising values all the time, or completly rework things if this didnt work. Like he has done with unhappiness by lack of city defence. Or the way how illiteracy is handled.

Ask yourself why those late buildings have now such big need decrease in comparison to former versions.

So you don't ignore them?

 

[pza]

So you don't ignore them?

Fact is, the current situation we are in, we can have a perfectly developed nation and still have like -150 happiness for no reason. and the next turn it's back to +56 or something. the situation is horrible horrible.

 

[Gazebo]

In my games a big happiness drop always occur with entering the industrial age. 20 or 30 less happiness wit a 6-9 city empire.
Half year ago, the need reductions of industrial age buildings were around 40-50%, instead now 70%. One year ago, those buildings only reduced the needs by 20-30%. And all time it was ok with happiness.
I think the needs are increasing now too drastically, and the only solution G is picking is increasing need reductions by buildings. If we change the algorithm to less need growth but also less need reduction by buildings, we are at the same spot, but with much less happiness jumps.
G could have done this in previous versions already, but I have no clue why hes strictly against easy solutions. :/

Just to piss you off. Only you. No other people. No other reason. I live to thwart your fun.

G

 

[Stalker0]

I also notice a drop in happiness though not as extreme as some notes here. but the difference is i feel i can react and manage it. it doesnt spiral like in previous versions

 

[BiteInTheMark]

So you don't ignore them?

You cant ignore them. Its a bit sad, cause building a zoo to gain tourismn from forests or jungle, even you dont want to go for cultural victory or have no jungle or forest in range feels artificially forced. Same with constabulary, which main effect is defence and counterintelligence. I dont like Gs decision to make a lot more buildings necessary to run your civilization, but I have to live with it.

But the point is the percentage of the need reductions from this buildings. They have been constantly increased. This is an indicator for the need calculation in the background. Former 20% or 30% was enough to compensate the increase in needs over the game. Now you have 75% by hospital. This shows, the needs in the background raise much more than in previous versions, and higher need reductions are necessary to compensate it. Its no wonder some of us see such big happiness jumps.