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Space 5 - Old hands can be newbs too, getting back in the game

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Succession Games' started by a space oddity, May 25, 2013.

  1. ainwood

    ainwood Consultant. Administrator

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    Had an invite from Space and am keen to join. Said it was conditonal on a relaxed pace... Which I presume won't be a problem!

    I'm fine with any settings.
     
  2. a space oddity

    a space oddity Deity GOTM Staff

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    :banana: Glad you could make it, welcome! I'll add you to the roster.
     
  3. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Hi ainwood. :wavey:

    :hmm: So, do we have a victory condition in mind? Good to think about this early as the progression up the various Social Policies kind of depends upon where you want to go.

    A hill capital is always nice, along with a nearby river for commerce. Please have a look at tile yields because they are different from earlier version of Civ. No food on hills unless you farm them. Food resources are, perhaps, more important in Civ5 as well. Food is king as tech rate depends upon how many citizens you have.
     
  4. a space oddity

    a space oddity Deity GOTM Staff

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    Like MB suggested Spaceship Victory might be a good way to see all the available ages. Although I am not sure being Montezuma is the easiest way to achieve it.

    I have a map ready to play that has a seaside hill start and two pearls and a whale, no river but we might be ok.
     

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  5. TedJackson

    TedJackson Cunning old Celt

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    That probably goes double for me :eek:

    [Edit] Whoops! missed the page turn :blush:

    Welcome aboard Ainwood :king:

    I'm fine with any victory we can scrape together. After all it is my first game.[/Edit]


    Ted
     
  6. AlanH

    AlanH Mac addict, php monkey Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Oh! Best behaviour, the boss is playing!

    I'm pleased to see that Leif has joined is, too. It sounds as if he knows how this game works.
     
  7. a space oddity

    a space oddity Deity GOTM Staff

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    Any ideas on whether the starting position is good enough to give us a decent chance? We could be cornered a bit, with the sea in the west and those mountains to the north. OTOH it could be a strong position to hold with those natural barriers.

    edit I will hold off playing until I have heard some opinions, or until a day has passed. No pressure! ;) No, seriously, I am happy to get this going with the current save, if y'all are too busy to comment. :coffee:
     
  8. Gyathaar

    Gyathaar Warlock Retired Moderator GOTM Staff

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    Seems I received an invite to play also.. but I think I will just lurk ;)
     
  9. AlanH

    AlanH Mac addict, php monkey Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    No idea! But why would we want it to be easy?

    A day? Whatever happened to the old "Space Pace"?

    Shame!
     
  10. TedJackson

    TedJackson Cunning old Celt

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    I really don't have enough knowledge to say whether or not it's a good starting location but if we give it a go then we'll have learnt something for our next attempt ;)


    Ted
     
  11. mad-bax

    mad-bax Deity GOTM Staff

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    I agree with the others who have posted. Let's just play this save. Whales and Cattle used to equal settler factory in old money. Who knows - it might be similar now.

    If we settle on a hill do we get enough food to support a citizen despite hills being a no food tile?

    : on-topic: I watched Space-Cowboys the other night with my kids. :hmm: (I actually fell asleep half way through since it finished way after 10pm.).
     
  12. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Settling on the hill will give the tile food, so yes, it is a good idea. :)

    Am I supposed to be able to see the start position? Somehow, I am missing that. :scan:
    edit - OK, I found it. :blush:

    Pearls and Whales are both luxuries, so we get happiness (and some commerce) but no real food bonus until we build Lighthouse (researching Sailing to build Work Boats and Optics to build Lighthouse). Even Cows, they have 3 food and when you build a Pasture, you get a hammer... :hide:
    edit - the two Fish tiles will give us some food, but it is slow to develop due to the research that is needed to get to Optics.

    Not sure where to move the Jaguar. :hmm:
    Think we should keep the Whales within the city's three tiles and it looks like desert to the south.
    Without the save, tough to make a recommendation. The question is what we would need to see to make us settle elsewhere?
     
  13. a space oddity

    a space oddity Deity GOTM Staff

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    Here's the save. My intention was to move the Jag through the jungle to the hills in the east before settling, but I think I would settle in place because whatever would show up would be too far anyway, I think.
     

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  14. ainwood

    ainwood Consultant. Administrator

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    Only need fishing, which is +2food IIRC. Optics for lighthouse to give another food.

    Suggest that fishing is a good early option, as pearls for happiness and commerce.
     
  15. TedJackson

    TedJackson Cunning old Celt

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    Unless the in-game info is wrong then:
    Cattle + Pasture = +1 food
    Fish + Workboat = +1 food
    Pearls + Workboat = +2 Gold, +4 Happiness
    Whales + Workboat = +1 Food, +1 Gold, +4 Happiness

    So we have some good stuff in the second ring but I don't know if it is good enough :blush:


    Ted
     
  16. mad-bax

    mad-bax Deity GOTM Staff

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    I can't find fishing in the tech tree :hmm:

    If this is like previous versions of the game, then early on food is king. The most food improvement would come from getting a workboat(s), which means researching pottery (10 turns) and then sailing (maybe 10 turns with growth). By then, all the first tier techs may be available by trade - and we need animal husbandry. So - for me, I would research pottery and sailing. I would build jaguar (cost = 40), then granary (cost =60). This is a bit less than 20 turns with growth factored in. That means we should be able to start first settler around turn 18. Settler will take maybe 10-12 turns. So we'll get first settler on around turn 30. Yikes!

    Is this reasoning sound - or am I truly mad?
     
  17. ainwood

    ainwood Consultant. Administrator

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    It's not all bad. We have lots of hammers to build improvements, enough luxuries for the early growth, stone if we want to build an early Stonehenge or similar, and a basic food improvements. A river would be nice, but this city can have a production focus early, and we can worry about population / science etc somewhere else. We have a civ suited to early attacks, and the high production aligns with that.
     
  18. ainwood

    ainwood Consultant. Administrator

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    yes - it is sailing, not fishing.

    You can't trade techs in civ5! You can set up research agreements, but not until philosophy. So we need to do it ourselves.
     
  19. TedJackson

    TedJackson Cunning old Celt

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    Sorry to double post but I wanted to just get some general thoughts out there for discussion.

    With this start we would have to invest fairly early in four Workboats (2 Fish, 1 Pearl & 1 Whale) and at least one Trireme to develop the coast. We could add the second Pearl as opportunity arises.

    At the same time we would have to invest in at least one Worker to mine the hills in order raise the production necessary to develop the coast as outlined above. Ideally we should add a second Worker to speed the process and develop the Stone and Cattle on our doorstep.

    In addition we need to build up our army to scout the environs, defend our worker and city and escort at least one settler to settle some more luxuries.

    Research would be either AH (Cattle) then Pottery to Sailing (Coastal resources) or Pottery, Sailing then fall back to AH if we can't trade for it. Getting Mining early on would also seem essential to increase our initial production base.

    From my limited knowledge of the game it would seem wise to choose either Honour (combat) or Tradition (culture) as our first Social Policies depending on our early contacts.

    I say again that I'm a complete newbie as far as Civ V is concerned and these ideas are just, what appears to me as, common-sense.

    Feel free to point out any misapprehensions I'm labouring under. :)


    Ted
     
  20. a space oddity

    a space oddity Deity GOTM Staff

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    From what I've read gold-rushing is a valid way to get more settlers out in the early stages of the game. And a focus on gold would dictate a shrine rather than granary to grab more land and trading options.

    The granary is a different beast in this game, it will only increase the yield of certain tiles: Wheat, Bananas and Deer, which we don't have in the capital.

    Below you will find a link to a strategy based on the Tradition social policy tree.

    More details in a post by Tabarnak.

    edit TJ, I agree, and I think we should follow you second option for techs: Pottery, Sailing, then try to get AH through trading. Build order I would think Scout, Worker or Jag, Worker. Maybe we can skip the Shrine for the capital since we get culture from killing enemies.
     

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