Space 5 - Old hands can be newbs too, getting back in the game

[AlanH]

Well done, Ted. I'll take a look at the save, and post some thoughts tonight.

 

[TedJackson]

Nice work Ted, now we have some decisions to make. First, some advice. Instead of the fishing boat working the whales to start, we probably should have worked one of the pearl tiles because of trade considerations below.

Trading - Both Alex and Nappy have nearly 300 Gold each. We can trade the whale to them for 240 gold, enough to purchase a work boat, or added to our gold at hand, a worker. If we trade away a pearl, we can replace it with a second work boat, but if we trade the whale, we lose it for 30 turns unless we decided to break the deal by declaring war (this is a bit cheesy to me, but it is how some play).

I was going to trade away the Whales as soon as they were online, as we were more than OK for happiness. But I, obviously, had a brainfart and forgot

Should think about an Archer in the capital when we can.

As we are not quite ready to build a settler, perhaps we should consider trading the whale to Alex (see if he becomes more friendly?) and purchasing a Worker with the cash, get a hill mined, see if any horses appear and then pasture horses or cow south of the capital.

I thought Jag then Archer, perhaps allowing us to escort our Settler (if we ever get one) and then tackling some barbs.

As above, I think trading the Whale now is probably for the best. I'm not totally au fait with all the ins and outs of happiness but we're +6 at the moment so now seems a good time to trade

Hope Legalism works as it does in G&K, giving a free culture building to our first four cities as we build them. In the initial release, it gave a free culture building to up to four cities, if they existed. They did not save them for later like G&K does. When we build a new city, need to check and see if we received the free Monument.

Before we can get the free Settler, we have to go through Collective Rule.

The potential city site up east of Cape Town looks pretty good now, wheat on a river tile is always nice. If we can only find a happy resource to the east, will be very happy to settle there.
Venice is creeping towards our second city site.

Paris looks like a nice place to conquer.

All those Floodplains do look tempting


Ted

 

[a space oddity]

Some great discussion so far, basic enough to enlighten even a non-player.

I guess that is the advatage of starting with near to zero experience with this version of the game. I am so glad I lured Alan ainwood and leif into this, guys.

It does feel crowded on the map compared to earlier versions, especially with our corner of the world feeling so barren. All the more reason to our way into greener fields. Paris does seem nice, doesn't it?!

 

[a space oddity]

I think trading the Whale now is probably for the best. I'm not totally au fait with all the ins and outs of happiness but we're +6 at the moment so now seems a good time to trade.

I'd agree, apart from not actually doing it right away, I think your grasp of this game is better than mine ATM. Not that it is saying much, I'm afraid.

 

[TedJackson]

I'd agree, apart from not actually doing it right away

I'm not sure if I've misunderstood your response or just not explained clearly

The point I was trying to make is that we have more than enough happiness at the moment so that we wouldn't miss the happiness generated by the Whales for the next 30 turns or so as we're going to stop growing fairly soon

I think your grasp of this game is better than mine ATM. Not that it is saying much, I'm afraid.

I'm hurt!


Ted

 

[a space oddity]

I'm not sure if I've misunderstood your response or just not explained clearly

The point I was trying to make is that we have more than enough happiness at the moment so that we wouldn't miss the happiness generated by the Whales for the next 30 turns or so as we're going to stop growing fairly soon

Oh, I understood what you meant. It was just a mild jab at the fact that you meant to trade it, but forgot to actually do it. But I guess the jab part didn't make it across the language barrier.

 

[leif erikson]

The forgetting to trade part might have just been a senior moment?

 

[TedJackson]

The forgetting to trade part might have just been a senior moment?

Who're you calling senior, sonny


Ted

 

[a space oddity]

Just a reminder for the lurkers, it's the true veteran amongst us who is up next.

Roster:
a space oddity
mad-bax
TedJackson
AlanH <-- UP
leif erikson
ainwood

 

[AlanH]

Veteran in years only. Conscript in terms of recent Civ-anything experience, and total noob on Civ5.

For the lurkers, here's a screenshot of the strategic view, having loaded up the latest save from Ted. I'll have a look and post a plan ... soon

 

[TedJackson]

Oh, I understood what you meant. It was just a mild jab at the fact that you meant to trade it, but forgot to actually do it. But I guess the jab part didn't make it across the language barrier.

No, just me being dense

@AlanH: thanks for posting the map. My PhotoShop installation is totally fritzed and a quick re-install didn't sort it


Ted

 

[AlanH]

Can we whip something to exploit our Whales and the excess happiness they provide? That upsets one or two citizens for a few turns, IIRC, but the whales would keep us out of trouble. Or do we need a tech we don't have yet in order to rush production?

@Ted: I use Command-Shift-Control-4 to put an image of a selected screen rectangle on the clipboard. I then use Preview, File->New from Clipboard to get it into a png image file that can be edited or just posted.

In this case, I needed to stitch two images together as my screen is not high enough to cover the whole map, so I used Pixelmator. I do have Photoshop Elements, but I don't like it. It's horribly bloated.

 

[a space oddity]

Can we whip something to exploit our Whales and the excess happiness they provide? That upsets one or two citizens for a few turns, IIRC, but the whales would keep us out of trouble. Or do we need a tech we don't have yet in order to rush production?

You can just sell the Whales without the need for any whipping. When we need something quick we can use gold to outright buy something. So we can use the gold we get from selling the Whales to Greece to buy ourselves another workboat or our first Worker.
We will not receive happiness from the Whale for the next 30 turn, but that is no problem since we have some excess happy-points and we will not be growing quickly.

 

[AlanH]

OK, just brainstorming.

 

[a space oddity]

OK, just brainstorming.

Keep it coming!

Are we all agreed on Writing as our next research? Since we need to do all of our research ourselves for the time being it seems like a logical choice.

And what about the next Social Policy? What do we need worse, a Worker (Citizenship) or a Settler (Collective Rule)? I'd say we need Landed Elite at some point in the near future too, this will give us 2 extra food in the Capital.

 

[TedJackson]

@Ted: I use Command-Shift-Control-4 to put an image of a selected screen rectangle on the clipboard. I then use Preview, File->New from Clipboard to get it into a png image file that can be edited or just posted.

In this case, I needed to stitch two images together as my screen is not high enough to cover the whole map, so I used Pixelmator. I do have Photoshop Elements, but I don't like it. It's horribly bloated.

I used Grab which saves in TIFF format and, of course, I didn't seem to have anything that will convert them. So looking around I see my old goto tool for screenshots, SnagIt, is now available for the Mac

I'll have a look later and see if that will do the job

Keep it coming!

Are we all agreed on Writing as our next research? Since we need to do all of our research ourselves for the time being it seems like a logical choice.

And what about the next Social Policy? What do we need worse, a Worker (Citizenship) or a Settler (Collective Rule)? I'd say we need Landed Elite at some point in the near future too, this will give us 2 extra food in the Capital.

It depends on how we spend our trade income but free Settler, buy worker would seem best at the moment. That would allow us to pop Jag then Archer by normal production.

Just my (random) thoughts.


Ted

 

[mad-bax]

AH is in 2 turns, Writing another 8 as of now - so probably less when we get there. We need to choose another tech for the next set of turns. So I vote writing and then optics.
Bronze working give barracks and jungle clearing which we don't need quite yet.
masonry gives quarries and marsh clearing, which we don't need yet either.
Calendar, as above - no stone, no marble so no reason to research ATM.

I suggest we finish workboat (4 turns) and then archer (7 turns or less) to escort settler etc. as previous post. I am anxious to add cities (at least one) as quickly as possible. There are only two decent sites we have uncovered so far and we are pretty hemmed in. Therefore I would get a settler through adopting collective rule next. Agree that landed elite is also important - but for me, putting another city down is a primary goal.

I don't want to sell Whales to Greece. Alex is our biggest threat and making him happy will accelerate his growth. I would rather sell to Napoleon. He has horses. Can we do anything with horses yet?

As always, I fly my kite to see if it gets shot down. Be as hard as you like.

 

[leif erikson]

Damn vanilla, the policies are different from G&K.
Had to erase a long post...

Agree that our best track is to purchase a Worker and take a free Settler.

Also agree that Work Boat and then Archer are good builds.

Agree with Writing next. Before going Optics, we should decide what we are planning near term because there is a wonder, Hanging Garden, that provides 10 free food in the city in which it is built. Conveniently, it requires Mathematics to build. Math also gives us Catapults and Courthouses. Building a Lighthouse with Optics will give us 5 food, so 10 looks better to me.

We need to recon the area east of Cape Town in order to decide where to settle next. Our free Settler will arrive in 6 turns. Not backing off the Venice site just yet, but would like to see what is NE because do not wish Alex to beat us there.

Lastly, who to trade with? Alex will spread quickly, so he is a legitimate target. If that is where we are headed, building our next city to the NE will lead us in that direction. But remember that Alex has two ancient era UU's, Hoplite and Companion Cavalry. We will need Spears to go after him to protect from the Cavalry and that means Bronze Working.
edit - if Alex has Horses?

Catherine is equally dangerous later because she gets double quantities of Horses and Iron, so she can build more units.

Nappie's UU's come much later.

Who to attack is what we need to decide next and what units will we need to successfully do it?

edit - Also, M-B, wouldn't worry too much about a trade affecting Alex's happiness as I do not think the ai play by the same rules we do at Emperor. They get a bit of extra happiness iirc. The question is who do we want good relations with, and that more depends upon who we wish to attack first?

 

[a space oddity]

Who to attack is what we need to decide next and what units will we need to successfully do it?

edit - Also, M-B, wouldn't worry too much about a trade affecting Alex's happiness as I do not think the ai play by the same rules we do at Emperor. They get a bit of extra happiness iirc. The question is who do we want good relations with, and that more depends upon who we wish to attack first?

Now we're talking! If we would have found Karasu and would've convinced him to join, I think we would be at war already.

Seriously though, how realistic are our chances against Greece? With not one but two strong early UU's? Getting him out of our way sounds appealing, but are his lands worth it, either by value or strategic position on the landmass?

 

[TedJackson]

AH is in 2 turns, Writing another 8 as of now - so probably less when we get there. We need to choose another tech for the next set of turns. So I vote writing and then optics.
Bronze working give barracks and jungle clearing which we don't need quite yet.
masonry gives quarries and marsh clearing, which we don't need yet either.
Calendar, as above - no stone, no marble so no reason to research ATM...

Apart from the Stone 2S of our Capital

...We need to recon the area east of Cape Town in order to decide where to settle next. Our free Settler will arrive in 6 turns. Not backing off the Venice site just yet, but would like to see what is NE because do not wish Alex to beat us there.

The Northern Jag is heading in that general direction so we should know the answer in the next set of turns.

Lastly, who to trade with? Alex will spread quickly, so he is a legitimate target. If that is where we are headed, building our next city to the NE will lead us in that direction. But remember that Alex has two ancient era UU's, Hoplite and Companion Cavalry. We will need Spears to go after him to protect from the Cavalry and that means Bronze Working.
edit - if Alex has Horses?

Catherine is equally dangerous later because she gets double quantities of Horses and Iron, so she can build more units.

Nappie's UU's come much later.

Who to attack is what we need to decide next and what units will we need to successfully do it?

edit - Also, M-B, wouldn't worry too much about a trade affecting Alex's happiness as I do not think the ai play by the same rules we do at Emperor. They get a bit of extra happiness iirc. The question is who do we want good relations with, and that more depends upon who we wish to attack first?

I don't have access to the game right now but my gut feeling is that we trade with Cathy or Napoleon and plan to go to war with the other

Now we're talking! If we would have found Karasu and would've convinced him to join, I think we would be at war already.

He'd already be sweeping up the the remains of the Greeks, I'm sure.

Seriously though, how realistic are our chances against Greece? With not one but two strong early UU's? Getting him out of our way sounds appealing, but are his lands worth it, either by value or strategic position on the landmass?

I don't really think our chances against Greece are very good, I'm afraid. We need more production in place and stronger troops to realistically take them on. But who knows what the next 20 or so turns will bring?

[Edit]
One last thought. We need to fit a Trireme into our production schedule fairly soon as we really don't want barb boats pillaging our fisheries, do we?
[/Edit]


Ted