Space 5 - Old hands can be newbs too, getting back in the game

[TedJackson]

Looking good AlanH

Sorry I wasn't around much yesterday but I had a busy day and it was our wedding anniversary so I thought staying away from the computer would be a wise choice.

Hopefully I'll be able to have a look at the save this afternoon and get up to speed with where we are.

@Space: Happy to help out. Have a good trip.


Ted

 

[a space oddity]

Thanks Ted, appreciate it.

BTW anniversaries are testament to the ability to make smart choices like that!

 

[AlanH]

Think our first priority is to get another Settler out, so propose changing the build in M-BR to Settler.

Feel free, there's only one turn invested in the trireme. I thought about a settler, but was reacting to the concern about our fisheries. If we have three sets of nets out there, I imagine there's a big danger of losing food and scarce happiness.

Proposed location is on the river, one or two tiles NE of the Horses, unless recon shows us something of more merit.
After Settler, either Work Boat or Library.

Still no trireme?

Space Station can continue as Granary.

We can sign Open Borders with all our "friends" and think we should do so. Eastern Jag can recon France on the return trip while northern Jag can get a look at Russia.

What are the benefits of open borders?

Plan to purchase Work Boat for Pearls, hate to get too low on cash because that is usually when someone declares.

At the current rate, you'll be at 1 gold after buying the boat. I tuned it for minimum got to get the 240 gold, but you could increase the rate if you want a couple more coins.

Planning to pick up a Worker at the southern Barb Camp.

Research => complete Wheel and on to Math, unless we should detour to Masonry to be able to Quarry the Marble.

Thanks for your plan. I'm still not sure about all the logic, though.

 

[Optional]

What's the chance of them breaking such a deal to attack us? Or are we relatively save for the next 20 turns if we sign such a deal?

lurker's comment: AI break deals all the time, they just find it convenient to have Open Borders with you if they plan to attack you.
But players open their borders in the early game, for the money, and borders that have hardly expanded yet don't offer much safety anyway. Later in the game it becomes different; the larger borders of well established towns and having roads mean you would give yourself one or two turns to prepare if an AI wants to attack you but hasn't got Open Borders, and this might be more worth to you than 50 gold over 30 turns then.

I hope the weather is as nice for you there as here in Scotland, Space Oddity!

What are the benefits of open borders?

Just the money; AI pays 50 gold for Open Borders.

 

[a space oddity]

I hope the weather is as nice for you there as here in Scotland, Space Oddity!

Thanks, the forcast for Sardinia is looking good. I'm surprised you're in Scotland though, from your location I presumed you were in a pub the north of The Netherlands.

 

[Optional]

Thanks, the forcast for Sardinia is looking good. I'm surprised you're in Scotland though, from your location I presumed you were in a pub the north of The Netherlands.

Good guess! It's where I'm originally from, already in Scotland for 13 years, though. 'It Dockumer Lokaeltsje' was a local commuter train, I think it only ran for a short spell before I was even born. And later it became the name of an equally short-lived punk band from the same area. Them I've seen, they were rather brilliant.

The nice thing about the weather here in Scotland I find is that it rarely gets too hot. It's really very nice outside just now, but still only 19°C, and I don't need it hotter!

 

[leif erikson]

What's the chance of them breaking such a deal to attack us? Or are we relatively save for the next 20 turns if we sign such a deal?

Civ5 ai are pretty unpredictable unfortunately. With these three, there is always a chance we will get a surprise declaration.

I will be leaving for a short break tomorrow. I'll be back the June 15th.

Have and enjoyable and safe trip.

Feel free, there's only one turn invested in the trireme. I thought about a settler, but was reacting to the concern about our fisheries. If we have three sets of nets out there, I imagine there's a big danger of losing food and scarce happiness.

Still no trireme?

Have we seen any Barb Galleys? If not, think we can take a chance. Believe it or not, they generally do not pillage the nets and the city's defensive fire can deter them. Worst thing they do is to blockade, which denies us their use, until the city sinks them.

In some ways, the blockade denying them to us breaks our deals and returns control of them to us once we sink the Barb.

What are the benefits of open borders?

Recon, to see what resources the ai's have, where they are located and allows us to plan how to dismember them.

At the current rate, you'll be at 1 gold after buying the boat. I tuned it for minimum got to get the 240 gold, but you could increase the rate if you want a couple more coins.

OK, good to know.

Thanks for your plan. I'm still not sure about all the logic, though.

Civ5 isn't always logical...

 

[AlanH]

Have we seen any Barb Galleys? If not, think we can take a chance. Believe it or not, they generally do not pillage the nets and the city's defensive fire can deter them. Worst thing they do is to blockade, which denies us their use, until the city sinks them.

In some ways, the blockade denying them to us breaks our deals and returns control of them to us once we sink the Barb.

Surprising. I just assumed they would pillage. In that case, no problem. Sorry for the wasted turn on the trireme.

Recon, to see what resources the ai's have, where they are located and allows us to plan how to dismember them.

OK. Russia has 2 silver currently. Having slightly burnt my fingers when trying to find out what deals Napoleon might do, I was a bit gun shy over trying to find out whether a better deal was available for open borders. Cathy only offered the straight deal, with no other incentives.

Civ5 isn't always logical...

Hmm. It's not just me, then!

 

[Optional]

lurker's comment: I doubt I've ever had a barb galley pillage a sea resource of mine. Barbarian land units pillage all the time, their sea units not so much, although they are capable of it.

In some ways, the blockade denying them to us breaks our deals and returns control of them to us once we sink the Barb.

I don't think that's true. Your citizens can't work a sea tile when there's a enemy floating in the water within a range of 2 tiles (it can be an embarked land unit as well, doesn't need to be a ship), but you still get the benefit of the lux in that time.

There's a barb camp on the coast in the west, so you can expect a few barb galleys to spawn from there, even when you haven't seen them just yet. But considering their danger somewhat on the trivial side, if I would build a trireme, I would build it for exploration mainly.
Also in vanilla the trireme is still a ranged unit (not melee like in Gods & Kings) so it can help clear that barb camp.
Since you've got some 4(?) land units already, I would find a trireme a very useful addition at this point.

Civ5 isn't always logical...

I'm thinking Civ III was more logical than Civ 5.

 

[leif erikson]

Surprising. I just assumed they would pillage. In that case, no problem. Sorry for the wasted turn on the trireme.

Yeah, optional may be correct about that? Not sure, I get confused between vanilla and G&K.

Playing soon.

 

[AlanH]

Now I'm confused. But then, that's been my standard posture for a long time!

BTW. Happy anniversary, Ted

 

[leif erikson]

Yeah, there is a Barb Galley bouncing around M-BR, no pillaging yet but we cannot work any tiles within 2 of the Barb's position.

we are at war with France, he declared a couple of turns ago.

Situation:

Log:

Spoiler :

Turn 40 – 2400 BC
Change build in M-BR to Settler.
Sign Open Borders with all known Civs.

Turn 41 – 2360 BC
Move northern Jag SE and find a Brab Camp with a Worker and the Barb is wounded.
Purchase a Work Boat for 240 Gold.

Turn 42 – 2320 BC
Northern Jag attacks Barb Camp and kills the Barb, we capture a Worker from Monaco, decide to keep him and we get 25 Gold.
Work Boat moves to Pearls and sees the Barb Camp rto our NW, it has a Worker captured there.

Turn 43 – 2280 BC
Archer kills Barb in Barb Camp to the south, +6 culture.
Jag moves towards home with our new Worker.
Promote Jag to Shock1.

IBT
We get attacked by a Barb in the north, Barb dies.

Turn 44 – 2240 BC
We capture the southern Barb Camp ansd take the Venitian Worker while earning 25 Gold.
Recon Paris and find an Army of three Warriors with a Great General, need to keep our eyes open.
No lux up north.
SS expands borders to get the Wheat.

IBT
Hanoi gives us a unit, an Archer, but it located near Hanoi?
Three French Warirors move in our direction.
We discover The Wheel, start on Math.

Turn 45 – 2200 BC
Was going to use our Archer to go after the Barb Camp NW of the Capital but decide he may be needed to fend off the French should they choose to attack.

IBT
The French do appear to be coming our way.

Turn 46 – 2160 BC
Move Archer into SS.
Worker starts irrigating SS Wheat.
Jags are healing.
Let’s see what happens.

IBT
Alex makes peace with Catherine.
French Wariors move north of SS.
Catherine comes calling and asks to Declare Friendship, agree.
A Barb Galley shows up near M-BR
Settler completes => start a Trireme due in 4 turns.
Catherine enters the Classical era.

Turn 47 – 2120 BC
Zzzzz

Turn 48 – 2080 BC
Move Settler and Jag in the north toward each other.
Archer covers Worker – Pasture Cow.

IBT
France declares war. Attacks SS.

Turn 49 – 2040 BC
France leaves a Great General unguarded, so attack with a Jag and kill him.
Both City and Archer attack a French Warior doing a combined 5 damage.
Move Settler to the west, being covered by the Archer.

IBT
People with the pointiest sticks comes up and we are third behind Nappy first and Catheirne second.
Nappy advance as if headed for M-BR

Turn 50 – 2000 BC
Trade Pearls to Catherine for 240 Gold.
Jag attacks French Warrior near SS and kills him.
Archer and Jag attack northern French Warior, doing 5 damage.

Turn over notes:
The Settler still has one movement point remaining in case you want to move him. My thought was to leave him there and move 1 tile NE and settle next trurn.

We have 303 Gold, 200 of which could be used to purchase an Archer in M-BR to fight French incoming Warriors.

Trireme completes next turn for use against the Barb Galley.

Nappy has an Arhcer roaming around somewhere NW of M-BR, he may have been going after the Barb Camp. Haven’t seen him for several turns.

Please keep an eye on the Workers as Nappy is getting close to some of them. May want to move the one on the Wheat into SS?

After Math should consider Masonry.

Do we want to buld The hanging Gardens, perhaps in M-BR?

In three turns we will be able to select another Social Policy.

 

[a space oddity]

Great job killing that Great General! Too bad we are in no shape to take on Paris yet, those are some greeeen pastures.

 

[AlanH]

Well done, Leif.

 

[ainwood]

Crikey. This is moving quickly! I'll download the save, post my thoughts, then get agreement before I play.

 

[leif erikson]

Just a note, Alan traded the Whale to Alex on turn 40, so at the end of your set, we will have it back to add in some happiness, that it looks like we'll need.

 

[mad-bax]

Since we can't really afford to have military units exploring whilst at war with France, maybe we can send the trireme to the North-west to see what's around the corner.

I would definitely buy the archer. As a war mongerererer I would certainly take umbrage at Napoleon's declaration and take Orleans off him. So beat back the attack on Space Station and then sack Orleans would be my view. The northern unit can head south whilst we defend and then help out with the attack.

In civ 3 I almost never built wonders - except for 20K. In that game, tying up the most productive city for many turns was generally a bad idea. Better to capture them. Will be interesting to hear if that view is different for ciV. Why are we not considering building our unique building in SS - after the war?

Remember our end goal is spaceship - so we should discuss strategies for fast tech research. A library in MBR seems like a good idea real soon.

Good luck ainwood

Have a good trip Space.

 

[leif erikson]

Remember our end goal is spaceship - so we should discuss strategies for fast tech research. A library in MBR seems like a good idea real soon.

One way is to conquer some cities and make them puppets as we get their culture and science without a huge hit to happiness.

 

[Optional]

Now I'm confused.

lurker's comment: You won't be the only one. With more experience in Civ 5 it is still confusing to go back to vanilla. The rule changes between the different versions are huge, much bigger than between the different Civ III versions.
If you're intolerant towards the confusion, but think you want to play more Civ 5, it's probably good to get straight into Brave New World when it's out in a month's time and not look back.
I'm not expecting to see many more Civ 5 vanilla SG's being played anyway. This one will be a curiosity. Civ 5 Gold is also only £4.99 on Steam just now.

Hanoi gives us a unit, an Archer, but it located near Hanoi?

That's vanilla. In later versions it'll spawn next your own nearest city.

It's a bit painful to see the CS's not coming up with quests. This aspect of the game is handled much better in Gods & Kings. There are more quests and you're less dependent on throwing money at the CS's for influence. That money is also worth less to the CS's in Gods & Kings.

 

[TedJackson]

Good stuff leif

I managed to injure my wrist yesterday so I'm not fully up to speed yet

Here's the
Roster:
a space oddity
mad-bax
TedJackson
AlanH
leif erikson
ainwood <-- UP


Ted