Space Colonization modmod

[Thunderbrd]

I thought the minimap only shows the current viewport. Wouldn't that be better for multimaps as well?

I THINK Koshling nailed this down. This was why viewports was critical to the development of multimaps in the first place. Somehow they work together - I still don't fully understand how it all works.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I did go through what would be needed to be done in the Python but as I said it is the interaction with the minimap that is the issue.

The whole 7000+ code needs to be restructured and I have demonstrated that I can do it in principle. I did a bit for the specialists part of the screen.

Which map should be displayed would be straight forward if we had a way of indicating which map to use. This was going to just mean adding a Z co-ordnate to the plot and the unit.

Moving a unit from one map to another is just a mission on the unit, ie a button is pressed and the unit moves.

It is a big task.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Which map should be displayed would be straight forward if we had a way of indicating which map to use. This was going to just mean adding a Z co-ordnate to the plot and the unit.

It's not about a z coordinate now but about a map selection. WHEN we are ready to work on this further, I will make sure to work closely with you to ensure you have the functions needed exposed to python. I believe it's already in the dll possible to define which map the unit is on, city is on, plot is on, etc. I'm also pretty sure Koshling would've reported it all to python. I can see how getting the minimap to display the right map would be an interesting dll/python interface issue.

Moving a unit from one map to another is just a mission on the unit, ie a button is pressed and the unit moves.

Yeah, not hard to program on it's face, but there would be numerous ways to do so and might need some consideration for a generic map swapping engine with qualifiers and guidance parameters. This part would be my pleasure to work out when I can catch up to all the many projects I can never seem to get time to work on here.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

The initial idea was that the z coordinate was what identified the map. It is not the same as height above ground as that is totally something else.

Plots have coordinates X, Y, Map (or z), and then terrain details. Cities and units have a Plot so don't need the rest.

 

[pepper2000]

Multimaps: the holy grail of C2C design. I haven't worried about that in designing the modmod because I figured it was a long way off and not something I could take on myself. Should I be thinking about future multimaps? For instance, I've been designing units and routes on the assumption that the single map system will remain in place indefinitely.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

There is a great deal of work to do and currently I am trying to finish off bits that I have lying around.

 

[Thunderbrd]

The initial idea was that the z coordinate was what identified the map. It is not the same as height above ground as that is totally something else.

Plots have coordinates X, Y, Map (or z), and then terrain details. Cities and units have a Plot so don't need the rest.

At a point, Koshling asked if Z was to mean Map or if that should be handled by a unique function like getMap() and getMap() was what was settled on. That's because the Z axis will also soon mean 'height' on the map for depth underwater and hovering units and so on.

You're right that initially Z was going to mean which map the unit was on.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Multimaps: the holy grail of C2C design. I haven't worried about that in designing the modmod because I figured it was a long way off and not something I could take on myself. Should I be thinking about future multimaps? For instance, I've been designing units and routes on the assumption that the single map system will remain in place indefinitely.

Indefinitely? Hopefully not. Multi-maps is further designed than that already and it would be a travesty to let it never come to pass imo. But it'll be a while yet.

 

[pepper2000]

OK. For the time being, I won't worry about it, but I very much hope to see multi-maps some day.

In other news, I have been working on V7 lately. There will be a little more content in this version than usual, so the next update is a ways off still.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I've been curious how much of what you're doing could be adopted into the mod as it is without requiring the need for offworld map stuff?

 

[pepper2000]

Internally, I've kept up a separation between buildings that can be built on Earth and don't require anything off-planet, and buildings that either exist off-planet or require something else in space. It wouldn't be too hard to split off a piece that is essentially a bunch of future era Earth buildings.

 

[Faustmouse]

Isn't it so that most of it is straight out compatible with the main mod, IF there is the required terrain?
If so, then a true map(script) with all terrains would be a high priority. Have you asked some mapscript guys on the forum?

 

[Thunderbrd]

Internally, I've kept up a separation between buildings that can be built on Earth and don't require anything off-planet, and buildings that either exist off-planet or require something else in space. It wouldn't be too hard to split off a piece that is essentially a bunch of future era Earth buildings.

I'd seriously like to strongly consider having those go right into the main mod. Late game is finally being reached by players only to have them complain of a lack of content, which makes sense but I'm thinking you've done a lot to rebalance and develop that era here.

Besides, there's not been any serious auditing of that era so if it's a little out of calibration, I'm sure it would be helpful for your stuff to get mainstream player feedback and it cannot really make our currently poor lategame environment any worse I think.

Isn't it so that most of it is straight out compatible with the main mod, IF there is the required terrain?
If so, then a true map(script) with all terrains would be a high priority. Have you asked some mapscript guys on the forum?

What, for a proxy multi-map mapscript? I don't think the mod is yet ready for that but if someone did one and made it so it wouldn't crash I'm not against its inclusion, only against its requirement for play at the moment.

 

[pepper2000]

I'd seriously like to strongly consider having those go right into the main mod. Late game is finally being reached by players only to have them complain of a lack of content, which makes sense but I'm thinking you've done a lot to rebalance and develop that era here.

Besides, there's not been any serious auditing of that era so if it's a little out of calibration, I'm sure it would be helpful for your stuff to get mainstream player feedback and it cannot really make our currently poor lategame environment any worse I think.

That sounds good. Unlike space colonization, which I know people have mixed feelings about now, more late game buildings on Earth will be good are both needed and shouldn't be too controversial. There's another big batch of Earth buildings coming in V7. There are a few other things to be settled, such as how much of the extended tech tree should be included.

In the longer term, I like the idea of space colonization as an option(s) when setting up the game. That would require suitable map scripts, though. We sort of have some modularity now, with most of the lunar material in its separate folder. Maybe another option would be to set up separate folders for Moon, Cislunar, Mars, etc. and let players toggle them, like we do with the alt history material. That could also be a bit tricky because of the ways in which I have different colonies interacting (e.g. mine built in Asteroid Belt to support Mars), but it could be done.

 

[Thunderbrd]

In the longer term, I like the idea of space colonization as an option(s) when setting up the game. That would require suitable map scripts, though. We sort of have some modularity now, with most of the lunar material in its separate folder. Maybe another option would be to set up separate folders for Moon, Cislunar, Mars, etc. and let players toggle them, like we do with the alt history material. That could also be a bit tricky because of the ways in which I have different colonies interacting (e.g. mine built in Asteroid Belt to support Mars), but it could be done.

At the moment, I'd lean towards modular folders due to the massive volume of additional xml it would take to optionalize so many data elements that would eventually be reverted when Multi-maps is done. Additionally, players capable of taking the steps to turn on a module would be more capable of understanding that a certain selection of maps or special map scripts are required as well. I'm usually for options but everything has its time and place and IMO, modular would be a more efficient approach to this for now. Such modular material could be included in the main mod download though, just like the disabled My Mods folder.

You already have SVN access right?

 

[pepper2000]

That sounds like a good plan. Somewhere we'll want to include instructions as well. I'm thinking of the following optional modules, though every module would require all the previous ones.

- Enhanced Future (only Earth material, though including the expanded Galactic tech tree and future civics)
- Lunar
- Cislunar (possibly independent of Lunar)
- Mars (possibly independent of Lunar and Cislunar)
- Solar System (planets other than Earth and Mars, as well as orbital megastructures not tied to planets)
- Galaxy
- Cosmos

Yes, I have SVN access, though I haven't used it in a while.

I keep saying that I want to get V(?) done before I move anything to the SVN, and I never seem to be satisfied that it is good enough. Still, I'm hoping that V7 will be the last big batch of new buildings, so I can turn my attention toward balancing, clean-up, etc. Maybe V7 is what I will put in the SVN. That will probably take a few weeks since I start my new job tomorrow and also V7 is a bigger release than usual.

 

[Thunderbrd]

We still have time before the official freeze period for v37 anyhow.

 

[Shadowclaw]

Hi. I have several suggestions and questions:
1) Who is my worst enemy in late eras? Inflation. Major economy disaster is worst problem. I am now in late Transhuman era (Gigantic map, 48 well-developed Earth cities, 8 Lunar cities, 10 Cislunar cities, 4 Venus cities, 7 Martian Cities, 5 Solar system (Jupiter, Neptune etc.) cities). I have huge economic difficulties, because of inflation 1000+ %. Maybe you can add some anti-inflation buildings?
2) Is V7 savebreaking? Is it better finish my current game on V6?
3) Utility fog building is unusable currently, because of "small chance of nuclear meltdown". Is it possible make this "chance" obsolete after some tech? Other buildings with "nuclear meltdown chances" are unusable too.
4) We have amazing Atompunk tech, but it is disabled. Why?
5) Abundance civic is too weak compared to Paradise and Superhuman.
6) Coal fired dynamo building should be obsolete after Fusion tech like Wood fired dynamo and similar buildings (but i think, this building from core mod).

 

[pepper2000]

Hi Shadowclaw.

1) Who is my worst enemy in late eras? Inflation. Major economy disaster is worst problem. I am now in late Transhuman era (Gigantic map, 48 well-developed Earth cities, 8 Lunar cities, 10 Cislunar cities, 4 Venus cities, 7 Martian Cities, 5 Solar system (Jupiter, Neptune etc.) cities). I have huge economic difficulties, because of inflation 1000+ %. Maybe you can add some anti-inflation buildings?

I agree. I'm not sure how to do anti-inflation buildings; does anyone know? E.g. is there a building in the main mod that I can use as a template? However, I can do more maintenance reduction in space buildings.

Part of the problem may be that space buildings and cities are still weaker than I think they ought to be, and those buildings ought to be boosted some more. It may be that all the non-Earth buildings are adding too much to maintenance without providing enough benefits to justify their cost. Another issue is building consolidation, and maybe there isn't enough new good to make up for the gold lost from old buildings going obsolete.

I've found also that if you take over the world and get to the Galactic Era, then funny things start happening with gold and research, as though some kind of overflow bug is being triggered. I don't think it's my fault, except insofar as I added more content to get into overflow territory, and I don't know what to do about it or if some kind of computational bug is causing you problems.

2) Is V7 savebreaking? Is it better finish my current game on V6?

It shouldn't be. I can't think of anything that would break a saved game. At any rate, V7 is still a ways off because I just started a new job and have to give that full attention now. Just in case, back up the V6 modmod before upgrading.

3) Utility fog building is unusable currently, because of "small chance of nuclear meltdown". Is it possible make this "chance" obsolete after some tech? Other buildings with "nuclear meltdown chances" are unusable too.

I don't know if there is any way to make the meltdown chance go away. I always edit it out of XML files for my own play, because meltdowns are a big pain in the butt. One solution is to have the Utility Fog be replaced a bit later in the tech tree by a safe version, just as we know have safe Generation IV nuclear reactors replacing the older nukes.

4) We have amazing Atompunk tech, but it is disabled. Why?

Very good question. Does anyone know? I think it ought to be enabled by default. While we're at it, what about Nanopunk?

I'm glad you are enjoying the game and I hope you will be able to make it through the interstellar material too. There's a lot more of that coming in V7.

 

[Shadowclaw]

As for Atompunk tech, it is tech from core mode, so I wrote this question in wrong thread