Spain and France tourism - Oh my..

[GinandTonic]

I gotta say going to france and not liking the assorted eateries is blasphomy. Sure the staff are rude, but people take a perverse pride in it. Like ny having taxi drivers who cant speak english.

 

[Masquerouge]

@Masq... I've often heard that France is "2 countries: Paris and everything else", to what degree do you agree w/ that characterization? In what ways is it true or not true?

It is true. The way to see it is that Paris represents on its own at least 1/5th of the French economy and 1/5th of its population (if you account for the global Paris area). Because of the centralized way French like to run their countries, everything is in Paris. The road and railroad system is star-shaped with Paris at the center. And the second biggest French city is not even 1/6th as big as Paris.

Try to imagine the same for the US: a city with 60 millions inhabitants... combining the wealth of NY, the new technologies of the Silicon valley, and the administrative power of Washington DC.

So yeah, I would say Paris is a country within France. Paris alone deserves a whole trip. And the mentality of Parisians is different.

On the whole, I would say it's the same kind of difference than you have between, say, New York city and, well, Kentucky? If you see what I mean...

 

[Grisu]

It works in Switzerland every time although some dont mind you adressing them in English...

most people here view it as a sign of respect if tourists try to speak our language, and naturally they react positively to it, I had the same experiences in france (even if my french isn't quite elegant...)
this doesn't work with english, of course, since everybody expects tourists to speak it anyway

even if you don't speak a word in the local language, you can score points by just asking first if the person speaks english. most peopel frown at tourists that approach you and just launch a stream of full-speed english...

 

[garric]

You really wanted me to speak French? I'm not very good at French and I tried to speak it, however, many times the people just say "Anglais?", asking me to speak in English instead!

 

[Grisu]

you don't have to speak good french, a few words often work wonders. and if you absolutely don't want to speak french a simple and polite "excuse me, do you speak english?" often helps a lot

 

[warpus]

You really wanted me to speak French? I'm not very good at French and I tried to speak it, however, many times the people just say "Anglais?", asking me to speak in English instead!

I don't know any French either, but when I was in Montreal I did my best to speak it when ordering stuff.. and they figured right away that I couldn't speak French worth a damn and immediately switched to English on me, but I could tell that they really appreciated my pathetic attempts.

 

[Sidhe]

I don't know any French either, but when I was in Montreal I did my best to speak it when ordering stuff.. and they figured right away that I couldn't speak French worth a damn and immediately switched to English on me, but I could tell that they really appreciated my pathetic attempts.

I remember doing this on the couple of trips to France I had, I tried and failed to talk French I was much younger than I am now, my French was and still is apaulling and I had to point alot, but they were very helpful and apreciated the effort. I echo the sentiments of this thread, if your going to travel abroad respect the differences in cultures, the fact that the French might not be as customer driven as in the US where I hear that the oily charm is the norm(Can't comment never been, hope to visit, amazingly diverse country) If I do visit I'll be trying not to stick out like a sore thumb, hell I might even try to learn the language before I go

There are idiots everywhere, extremely overused statement, but very true. As Gin said come to England try a pub or two, you'll get the same treatment as everyone else, we don't believe in making differences count in a friendly environment, I remember explaining to some rather surprised Americans why the bars shut at 11, it was a law that enabled people to get up and make bombs etc for the war effort I'd be interested to hear about any English raccism towards our American cousins? Not all Europeans distrust Americans, Hell we distrust Europe as equally if not more so, buggers kept invading us

 

[Urederra]

<snip> I was much younger than I am now, <snip>

yeah, me too.

 

[.Shane.]

even if you don't speak a word in the local language, you can score points by just asking first if the person speaks english. most peopel frown at tourists that approach you and just launch a stream of full-speed english...

Right. Basically, I learned how to say "My apologize, but I not speak <local language>, do you speak English"? in the language of the place I was visiting.

I learned a couple other things, such as "NO MAYONAISE!!"

 

[.Shane.]

I'd be interested to hear about any English raccism towards our American cousins? Not all Europeans distrust Americans, Hell we distrust Europe as equally if not more so, buggers kept invading us

I had a great time in London! For the most part I did all the touristy things and such, but I found that average person to be helpful, polite, and proud of their city. I remember one time looking at a tube station map, plotting out a trip and guy just walked up and starting offering me pointers, tips, etc....

The funny thing about London, to me, was the extremely broad range of accents. I must admit I couldn't even understand some of them.

 

[Rik Meleet]

(..)As to the original post, a nice read, but I advise taking it with a boulder of salt. Given how the OP interacts and treats people in this forum, I can't possibly look at what he's saying objectively and am inclined to believe that if he acts toward people who are different in RL the way he does on the forum, that there was a lot of "reaping what one sows" involved.(..)

I think this element plays its role without doubt, but I do think in general America (and because of that American citizens) have lost much credit around the world. The ordinary man; the "man in the street" (literally) that has no way to influence major events might take this opportunity to take revenge and take advantage of the situation when it crosses his path.

A bit childish, I admit, but understandable.

 

[Masquerouge]

I think this element plays its role without doubt, but I do think in general America (and because of that American citizens) have lost much credit around the world. The ordinary man; the "man in the street" (literally) that has no way to influence major events might take advantage when it crosses his path.

A bit childish, I admit, but understandable.

To that, I also want to add that, after living just a bit more that one year in the States, and thus being used to the high-quality customer experience you have there, we were both shocked, my wife and I, when we returned to France for a couple of weeks by some appalling experiences we had. It might have been bad luck, but still on the whole France does not stand the comparison with the US on customer service.

 

[Rik Meleet]

To that, I also want to add that, after living just a bit more that one year in the States, and thus being used to the high-quality customer experience you have there, we were both shocked, my wife and I, when we returned to France for a couple of weeks by some appalling experiences we had. It might have been bad luck, but still on the whole France does not stand the comparison with the US on customer service.

You are the expert (of me and you) in that field.

 

[Steph]

Speaking of customer service:
I have someone in my extended familly who has worked in lived in Canada, then in Korea, and then in Germany.
When he moved to Germany, all his stuff was brought by a removal men. They let all the furniture in the street, because they said "we stop at the first door". So he had to carry everything inside by himself.
But in Korea, when he went to buy a chair, the guy would deliver it to his house, mount the chair, check that it's not faulty and he his pleased with it, and then leave.

 

[Winner]

First of all:



Your story is hilarious, thank you for entartaining me for a few minutes

I had the pleasure to enter Spain and France for a two week vacation, to explore the many different locales and such of these historic countries. I am impressed by the architecture and the history of these two nations, and I respect the cultural heritage even if I do not respect their administrations. I stayed in Madrid, Granada, Nime, and finally Paris in various hotels.

Though the various sites I visited impressed me, what didn't impress me is the whole tourism industry. I am aware that I'm going to the touristy places so of course they would be overpriced, but no way in hell did I expect this, especially since I've visited places in America, Russia, China, Singapore, Australia and New Zealand; the things I saw in Paris and Spain bewildered me.

Surprise surprise. The toursim industry is basically the only thing in which is Europe ahead of anybody else. We set hundreds of tourist traps in which we strip foreigners of their hard-earned money.

If you want to see Europe, you shouldn't stay too long in these tourist traps (they are easily recongnizable: London, Paris, Barcelona, Prague...) - just visit what you want to see and get away. Visit the smaller historical towns, travel by trains, make your own program. It will save your money and nerves.

(BTW we Czechs aren't as rich as you Americans so we naturally avoid these money-black holes. You should learn how to do it, it is quite easy - don't buy things that are too expensive)

-> Price of food and drinks: 3 Euros for a bottle of water/coke and 2.2 for a can is the norm in Spain and Paris. Food wasn't -too- expensive, but paying 6 Euros for a crepe and 12 for a sit down meal every day is a big drain on the wallet. But seriously, why are the drinks so expensive? In America I can get a half liter glass of coke with ice for $1.50, and the most expensive I've seen a bottle of coke is $2.0 in San Francisco. This is especially inconvenient when there's a very hot summer.

And what's the deal with French soft drinks? They aren't full to the bottle, more like 3/4 of the way, really confused me. Are they trying to economize?

Don't buy it. Go to supermarket and buy 2 liter bottle for the same price.

-> Food preparation: Neither France nor Spain had "free" water at sit down restaurants. It's 4 Euros for you sir, for a little bottle of water or coke. I was stupefied to be charged 2 euros for some ketchup at a nice sit down cafe for which I paid 15 Euros for a meal. Aren't these things supposed to be complementary?

No, I never heard about it. It is the same around here - ketchup or mayonnaise are separate items you have to pay for.

The waiters don't comply with easy requests. I asked for some ice to put into my glass of Coke and she looked at me like I asked her to bring to me a baby fetus to eat or something. After looking at me for a few moments she brought me a big chunk of ice in a rubber container that I had to break apart with my knife by my self.

I was eating Mussels with French Fries and I asked the waiter to bring me a lemon, to which she asked "what for?" and I said I wanted to put it in my fries, to which a whole scandal errupted as she kept trying to find out why the hell I would want lemon on my fries. I swear the conversation went like this:
"Can you bring me a lemon please?"
"Lemon? What for?"
"I want to put it on my fries?"
"You mean a whole lemon? Like the fruit lemon which is like a yellow lime?"
"Yes."
"To put it on the fries? What? What for?"

She actually had to go speak to another waitress and I was brought a whole lemon which I had to cut myself, d'oh! And I was charged one euro for it.

Why the hell you want lemon for your french fries?!

The French fast food restaurants that I visited didn't even put more than a few chunks of ice into their drinks, which were not even filled all the way up, more like 3/4 of the glass. I wonder why.. that part really confused me.

Don't eat in fast foods.

-> Anti-Americanism. A lot of people told me that "Europe doesn't hate America, it's just rumors, lies, and small incidents that don't matter nor repeat themselves", and that's just bull.

Depends on what part of Europe you're visiting

First of all, everyone I talked to always asked me where I was from. I told them San Francisco and they smiled, two people actually commented that "that's a better part of the USA", hmm, okay, I guess they must love the liberal spirt?

Exactly. Maybe they also liked the fact that San Francisco has some culture, some history, unlike other American cities (no offense, that's just an impression people here, living in cities and towns which are about 1000 years old, have)

There were several instances of Anti-Americanism on my trip.

In Barcelona I ordered a chocolate cake from an icecream shop, and I asked the waiter to put a scoop of icecream on the cake and I would pay extra. He started saying stuff "You Americans think you know everything! You can not put the icecream on the cake! You Americans can't have everything you just want by paying money!"

Obviously, he had some bad experience with American tourists. He shoul have kept it for himself though.

In France, as I was walking down the street I saw a guy wearing a "Bush is murder" teeshirt and was saying "Suck my a deeeek" (suck my dick, I'm guessing) to us.

Standard idiot.

A Philipino friend I was travelling with was accosted by a French stall-owner, completely unprovoked. He looked at her and laughed, saying "You from China? You from China? China-America? What do you know? You from China! Go back to China, not to France. I don't come to China you don't come here."

Standard racist.

Later, a French African was trying to sell me some lighters and wouldn't leave me alone. I don't know if this is legal, so someone from France please verify if it is legal to sell wares on the street out of a leather case. Anyway, I said leave me alone, etc, and I tried to ignore him. He followed me for about 5 minutes calling me a "Stupid American" and that all I can do is "bomb the world".

Ignore such people. They would say the same to any Germans, Brits, Italians or Russians as well.

A similar incident, my Philipino friend was walking out of the subway and an African man accosted her and tied a bracelet around her wrist, and started making an "African good luck charm" out of various fabrics, we kept saying no, but eventually he finished and asked for money. We didn't want it, so we didn't pay for it, so he started saying stupid things like "Americans have enough money to bomb people but they can't buy a peace bracelet" or something stupid like that.

Ah yeah, those people are terrible. We were on a school trip in Paris few years ago and they tried the same thing. You have to kept it and not pay for it (he gave it to you, so it's his problem), see what happens

Many souvenir shop owners got offended at my "touching" the wares, like looking at a t-shirt or something, or at a keychain. One time a man said he was "closing" because a friend of mine touched a teeshirt he was going to buy. We came back 5 minutes later to have the store opened.

Maybe he was afraid that you are going to steal it.

2 instances a store owner would ask me of my nationality and say "We don't serve Americans here" (though this was in Nime, at small non-touristy stores).

That's capitalism.

Thank you for listening to my stories.

I'll save this post and send it to my friends, if you wouldn't mind

 

[silver 2039]

And in America we put lemon on our fries... it tastes better that way.

No. No we don't. At least I have never seen it. Thats just weird....

 

[carlosMM]

Though putting ice into beer is rather strange, even in America, I doubt anyone would be stupefied and have a heart attack about it here, they would just do as you ask them.

Not a heart attack, but a flat out refusal. At most you'd get a glass with ice and a glass with beer, and the comment: 'I won't do it, but if you barbarian want to ruin your beer, here's all you need'.

 

[Stylesjl]

Americans are loved all around the world

 

[ThePrankMonkey]

he hates how CERTAIN Americans tell him how to live in his country.

ordering cake with ice cream is telling someone else how to live??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

um wow, ok.

apparently ordering a la mode is "american arrogance".

wow, just....WOW!

its cake and ice cream ANYONE i dont care who it is or where they are from, i repeat, anyone, who gets in a twist over cake and ice cream needs anger management ASAP. im not kidding. i have some temper problems but going off on someone for wanting ice cream with their cake seems a bit too much.

the fact he mentioned him being an american made me view the comment/rant/tirade as being anti-american. sure not all cultures have ice cream with their cake but is it the culture there to scream at someone like that for ordering it???? if so i'd really hate to see how they take actual offenses like insulting their mother or slapping them in the face. do they execute you via firing squad???

cake and ice cream...and he gets scolded for it. unbelievable.

 

[carlosMM]

"please" and "thank you" go a long way and go further if you try to say it in the native tougue [snip]

Yup, because that is a sure sign that you do NOT try to impose your culture and hibts on the local people

I have noticed over the years, less affection for American than in years past and sometime they are down right hostel like "Joe Citizen" makes the foriegn policy. I don't travel overseas that much anymore and with all the hassels of travel anymore I don't miss it. Oh well there are plenty of rude people here too.

that is well possible - after all, the modern media is a lot more critical, thus bringing critical attitudes to places where the US (and other countries) had a good name. Take, e.g., Germany: here, the US ha da great name, but the more you look the more screwed up they are. As is true for any other country: the first look will be nice and all, and the bad things glossed over (except for really bad states, Saddam's Iraq or whatever). Let's pick one by random.... Argentina! Nice plcae, hu?
Until you dig in - then you find plenty of things to critizise. Or Germany. Or Poland.........

So, the more people see, the more they find to dislike, while at the same time, international travel has increased and the novelty of foreigners has worn off.

I've heard a lot of people in other countries say Americans are rude and arrogant and some really are, but I thanks most are just being Americans with the customer service they are use to at home.

Yup, that is true, from boith sides: they are rude to us and they are not rude by their standards. So if you go to Rome......

I always took travel guides and avoided a lot of these problems, but no book can list every nuance of every area of every country. So misunderstanding happen.

......you did like the Romans do....


I am still amazed at the astonishment and sheer joy of the people in China when I asked them to explain their customs to me, and tried to speak Chinese.