Speculation ~ BNW New Units (For All Civs)

[Altisma]

Before we even think about new unit types, we need to balance the current types.

So far the entire combat system is basically this...

Spam archers-upgrade to composite bowmen, include 1-2 horsemen for taking cities.

Any other strategy is ineffective and will fall prey to the above strategy. Then over the course of the game, you would head towards crossbows. If you haven't won by then, head towards artillery, then towards great war bombers. Upgrade GWBs to Bombers and you should have won the game by now.

Naval wise, you pretty much ignore triremes because as melee units they have to die to even stand a chance at taking a city since only so few can attack per turn compared to range. Galleys are also pretty worthless unless you head towards them right away. So naval wise, it is all about getting Frigates/Privateers then upgrading them if its required too. One note to mention here is Ironclads are worthless for attacking because they take forever to travel the ocean for whatever reason.

Then besides the standard units, you may change up the same old combat strategy provided the Unique unit of the faction your playing is good (Horse Archers, Keshiks).

So before we even think about adding anti-infantry and ranged cavalry as standard unit lines we need to fix the current balance system so range units aren't totally dominating it.

Basically players should be building balanced armies (provided they have the resources) such as 4 swordsmen, 3 spearmen, 3 composite bows, 2 horsemen instead of 8 composite bows, 2 horsemen.

Best way to bring down range units is to add a ammunition system to them while making them do less damage to damaged units, and also slightly decreasing their strength. Historically archers were used to thin out the enemy ranks so the melee soldiers could get in and finish the job with less deaths. When engaged in melee, they get slaughtered, especially by cavalry.

Also fighters,anti-air units, triremes need to be looked at as currently they are useless entirely.

 

[Bakspatel]

U-boat is just an anglicised form of the German word U-Boot, which is short for Unterseeboot (literally undersea-boat). In English it simply means German WWI and WWII submarines specifically.

Really? I thought 'Sea' was 'Meer' and 'Lake' was 'See' (the village Zell am See in Austria?). I remember that because of the funny difference with Dutch, where 'Sea' is 'Zee' and 'Lake' is 'Meer'. It is something quite confusing for German students trying to learn Dutch at my University.

 

[Deggial]

'Die See' (female) is engl. 'sea'
'Der See' (male) is engl. 'lake'.

Wired, I know....
('Die See' and 'Meer' are synonym.)

 

[Bakspatel]

Handy to know as I intent to soon pick up my German again. Thanks!

 

[Jabberwockxeno]

I like the idea of a sniper ranged unit.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Something like a Flame thrower unit got me thinking, what if there were units like this which were slightly more powerful/flexible than their counterparts, but also due to being more controversial, could be banned/fined for use in the world congress.

Things like chemical and biological weapons, could be included in this as well.

Basically you trade off a slight advantage by going for this type of unit against the risk that other civs can vote for them to be banned/nerfed/maintenance increased in the congress.

 

[Saxony]

If flamethrowers are implemented in the game I imagine that they would be melee and maybe more effective in jungle (WW2 Pacific Front) but would have a disadvantage of having to set up before combat and when set up they could move but only 1 tile per turn. They could also be banned by the World Congress.

 

[PerceeP927]

Something like a Flame thrower unit got me thinking, what if there were units like this which were slightly more powerful/flexible than their counterparts, but also due to being more controversial, could be banned/fined for use in the world congress.

Things like chemical and biological weapons, could be included in this as well.

Basically you trade off a slight advantage by going for this type of unit against the risk that other civs can vote for them to be banned/nerfed/maintenance increased in the congress.

good idea, nukes aren't the only controversial weapons, this could be interesting to involve the world congress.

you could have squads with gas masks throwing mustard gas, maybe spies could send biological agents into enemy cities and have their population/production take a hit

brings up a whole concept of adding disease to the game, with cities getting infected, could actually put more use to the hospital and research lab buildings, world congress could come together to make a cure

 

[kingchris20]

Sniper Squad FTW!

 

[PerceeP927]

I'd like to see "experimental" units (kinda like SupCom2) where they are built like world wonders, so they are single use sort of units, whoever gets it first gets to use it mighty (expensive) power, mostly late game stuff such as a rail driver cruiser, or...



could be earlier too, like a trojan horse unit

if this seems unbalanced, it could be made like a national wonder so every nation has their chance at one

 

[Vandal Thorne]

I want to start a discussion about possible new military units for BNW that will be usable by all civs (not unique). I don't mean caravans or archeologists etc., just new military units.

We have a tip about a possible Bazooka unit (any one have a source?)
as well as some speculation about the axe/tomahawk unit
anyone else have any other ideas/units they want to be included?

Some ideas I have:

• U-Boat
• Canoe (pre-trireme naval unit)
• A late game commando/spec-ops sort of unit (probably be an independent unit, like marines doesn't upgrade into/from anything)
• Flamethrowers (if we're adding bazookas as a squad, why not. could precede gatling gun)
• A transport helicopter, like a chinook, that can move units a certain distance (can act like a bomber, based in a city, but it drops off units instead of bombs - or pick them up - and head back; why should modern units have walk to the battlefield? when does that ever happen?)
• Snipers? slow moving, murder to infantry but severely weak to anything else
• A destroyer upgrade: destroyer is in the game for 3-4 eras I think, cities get too powerful for them to work unless you lower the health to 0 before, need another late game naval melee unit (ideas?)
• Possible future units: I know some people aren't fans of these, but they can be more realistic than XCOM and GD Robot: like rail driver cruisers, single human mechs, stealth infantry squads...

Instead of a Canoe, I'd go with Dhow, a rather primitive sailing ship.

Spec ops unit is covered adequately by the Paratrooper.

Flamethrowers would be an atomic age unit, not industrial age...

Snipers...not really needed, ditto transpo helo and destroyer upgrade.

More interesting avenues would be developing the marine into an entire line of units since we've had marines on ships since the Classical Era IRL...

 

[ScottMcPwn]

U-Boat.......... Its a German submarine?
I'd like to see a flamethrower aswell.

And I saw further up the thread Bio-Weapons/Chemicals being mentioned........ Epic.
Bio Missiles would be great, signifficantly reducing the population and then leaving something similar to fallout that damages units over time?
Diseases could be interesting, Pandemics like the Black Death sweeping the globe via trade routes etc. but however I don't believe a lot of people would like that.

 

[andrewlt]

Doesn't the aircraft carrier need an upgraded version? It's still pretty much the top naval unit in real world. It shouldn't be that vulnerable to the attacks of missile cruisers. The aircraft carrier in the game represents the WW2 version.

 

[Konsti]

Keeping in mind that flamethrowers were probably already used by ancient greeks and the byzantines and still today are modern, they should be included. Maybe not a seperate line, but at least somewhere in the tech tree.
Be careful though, because the more units there are, the more similar they will become. You can only fluctuate so much when building a unit for a specific era.

 

[Deggial]

Flamethrowers would be an atomic age unit, not industrial age...

The early Modern Era would be okay.

First of all this:

Keeping in mind that flamethrowers were probably already used by ancient greeks and the byzantines and still today are modern, they should be included.

And then, they were "re-invented" in WWI.



from The Literary Digest, 1916
(A well-illustrated magazine article which sought to explain to American readers the workings of one of the cruelest of the World War I inventions)

"Among the many scientific tools of destruction employed in the war, the so-called "flammenwerfer" of the Germans, a more or less hose-like apparatus for hurling jets of flaming liquid, holds an important place..This idea of projecting upon the adverse trenches and their occupants a rain of liquid fire was no sudden afterthought of the German mind. It was conceived, studied, and perfected for several years before the war, and its history may be traced in the German patent office."

 

[Novu]

New units should be added to fill out more logical upgrade paths.

Lancer should become a direct upgrade to the Knight.
All civs would get horse archers which upgrade into Cavalry as a mounted gun powder ranged unit.
Pikemen should upgrade to Bayonet muskets in the Renaissance era.
New unit Grenadier (Grenade thrower) would provide a late Renaissance era upgrade to the crossbow.

This way the upgrade paths are more distinct.

(Mounted Melee) Horseman > Knight > Lancer > WW1 tank
(Mounted ranged) Chariot Archer > Horse Archer > Cavalry > Gatling gun
(Pole Melee) Spearmen > Pikemen > Bayonets > Anti-tank
(Basic Melee) Swordsmen > Long Swordsmen > Musketmen > Riflemen > Infantry
(Basic ranged) Archer > Composite bowmen > Crossbowmen > Grenadier > Machine gun

 

[PerceeP927]

New units should be added to fill out more logical upgrade paths.

Lancer should become a direct upgrade to the Knight.
All civs would get horse archers which upgrade into Cavalry as a mounted gun powder ranged unit.
Pikemen should upgrade to Bayonet muskets in the Renaissance era.
New unit Grenadier (Grenade thrower) would provide a late Renaissance era upgrade to the crossbow.

This way the upgrade paths are more distinct.

(Mounted Melee) Horseman > Knight > Lancer > WW1 tank
(Mounted ranged) Chariot Archer > Horse Archer > Cavalry > Gatling gun
(Pole Melee) Spearmen > Pikemen > Bayonets > Anti-tank
(Basic Melee) Swordsmen > Long Swordsmen > Musketmen > Riflemen > Infantry
(Basic ranged) Archer > Composite bowmen > Crossbowmen > Grenadier > Machine gun

I don't think it makes much more sense to have gatling gun and machine gun in different lines, or for cavalry to precede gatling gun

 

[Novu]

I don't think it makes much more sense to have gatling gun and machine gun in different lines, or for cavalry to precede gatling gun

The difference is in the mounting of the gun. Gatlings were mounted on a two wheeled carts called Caissons. Horses or other draft animals were essential in moving the caisson. This is by definition a mounted unit like a chariot. The Maxim and Vickers machine guns were carried by 2 or 3 men and mounted on tripods.

Spoiler :

1876 Gatling

Notice the horse team pulling the Gatling guns.

1894 Maxim Machine gun

Vickers Machine gun

 

[DiogenesK9]

Has anyone heard talk about naming units, a la Panzer General? Like if each unit spawned can be given a name that stays with them though their upgrades. For example if you spawn a warrior and name it 'The red lions' or '2nd brigade' or whatever, and then raise them over e centuries; then revel in their victories and mourn their death. That would be cool.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Has anyone heard talk about naming units, a la Panzer General? Like if each unit spawned can be given a name that stays with them though their upgrades. For example if you spawn a warrior and name it 'The red lions' or '2nd brigade' or whatever, and then raise them over e centuries; then revel in their victories and mourn their death. That would be cool.

You can't name units at creation, but you've been able to name them upon promotion since vanilla. Just look for the edit button next to the unit name when they are due for a promotion.