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[Speculation] Indonesia/Majapahit/Srivijaya

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by seancolorado, Mar 16, 2013.

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  1. Scaramanga

    Scaramanga Brickhead

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    The question is how would you choose one over the other? Srivijaya or Majahapit? Buddhist or Hindu? Sumatra or Java? Or if they choose an amalgamated "Indonesia" civ would it have to be lead by a modern Indonesian leader? These questions suggest to me it could be none of the above. Too many loose ends.
     
  2. cybrxkhan

    cybrxkhan Asian Xwedodah

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    They could simply do what they already did with India or China - have some pan-Indonesian Indonesia civ, except with the focus on the medieval states like Srivijaya and Majapahit.

    So you'd have Hayam Wuruk or Gajah Mada as leader, with UUs/UBs focusing on that era. Not too much a stretch in my opinion.
     
  3. Art Grin

    Art Grin Emperor

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    Firaxis will probably go for the name Indonesia and the civ will have aspect of both Srivijaya, Majahapit and maybe the modern state. As for religion, I wouldn't be surprised if Firaxis makes them Muslim since Islam is the dominant religion in Indonesia today(similar to how Carthage and Babylon have Islam as favourite religion in G&K).
     
  4. Scaramanga

    Scaramanga Brickhead

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    Yeah I could see that but it would harder to pull off with Indonesia since there's no Indonesian counterpart for Ghandi and China has had a much more continuous identity. The array of islands composing Indonesia makes for varied cultural narratives. If anything they resemble Polynesia's form in Civ. It's worth noting the Indonesian influence on Madagascar.
     
  5. cybrxkhan

    cybrxkhan Asian Xwedodah

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    So there you have it - there's already a precedent with Polynesia. I'd argue the Celts would also be a similar situation - a grouping of a number of different, but admittedly related, cultures spread across a wide area and a wide historical period (ranging from ancient antiquity with Boadicea and all, to the modern, with the Céilidh hall). Indeed it isn't too good, but it is what it is. Perhaps if they chose a more specific empire like Srivijaya and Majapahit we can avoid this, but what not.
     
  6. seancolorado

    seancolorado Deity

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    Indonesia/Majapahit are famous because they were able to successfully tie together these so-called loose ends into one empire. "Too many loose ends" is hardly a valid argument
     
  7. HeraldtheGreat

    HeraldtheGreat King

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    Personally, I think that the devs will go for Buddhism or Hinduism, since they both have few representatives, and they'ed probably spring at the chance to use them more, although I guess it depends on what time period they focus on.
     
  8. AessaSH

    AessaSH Warlord

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    Agreed.., Buddhism for Malays Srivijaya, Hinduism for Javanese Majapahit (the strongest candidate), or Islam for the modern Indonesia..

    IMHO, the Indonesian region is deserved to get more than one civ.. But the slot for the new SE Asian civ is very limited..
    So, choosing the civ which had uniting the Indonesian region is the best choice for now..
    I hope in Civ VI we will get the SE Asia scenario and more SEA civs.. :D

    And for now, lets choose the symbol which represent them.. :p
    Spoiler :
     
  9. snipperrabbit!!

    snipperrabbit!! Deity

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    3 more asians ... Indonesia, Assyria, Timurids : there you go !
     
  10. AessaSH

    AessaSH Warlord

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    Here is it.., the monarchs who are suitable to become the Indonesian leader in my version.. :cool:

    Srivijayan Era :
    - Dharmasetu : An 8th century maharaja of Srivijaya. Under his reign, he successfully incorporated Pan Pan, a kingdom located in the north of the Malay Peninsula into Srivijayan sphere of influence before 775 AD.
    - Samaratungga : The head of the Sailendra dynasty who ruled Central Java and Srivijaya in the 8th and the 9th century. During his administration, he initiated the construction of a massive Buddhist monument Borobudur.
    Spoiler Picture :


    Majapahitan Era:
    - Wijaya : The founder and the first monarch of Majapahit empire. His rule was marked by the victory against the army of Kublai Khan's Yuan Dynasty of the Mongol empire.
    - Tribhuwana : A Javanese queen regnant and the third monarch of the Majapahit empire. She appointed Gajah Mada as prime minister and pursued massive expansion of the empire.
    - Gajah Mada : A powerful military leader and mahapatih or prime minister of the Majapahit Empire, credited with bringing the empire to its peak of glory.
    Spoiler Pictures :

     
  11. Art Grin

    Art Grin Emperor

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    I'd say they'll either use Wijaya, because founding fathers are always a good choice and because he defeated the Mongols, or Tribhuwana, because Firaxis likes to have many female leaders.
    Another thought I had was surrounding the religion they'd go for. I said they'd probably pick Islam, but now I think they'll go for something else.
    They should probably pick Hinduism as Indonesia's preferred religion, since India is the only Hindu civ right now and it's harder to find Hindu civs then Buddhist ones. One thing that also speaks against Indonesia getting Islam is that we have Assyria in-game, who will most likely have Islam as their favourite religion. I could also see Firaxis adding more then one South-East Asian civ and the other good choices for that region Vietnam/Burma are both Buddhist, which makes it more logical to have Indonesia as Hindu civ for the sake of religious diversity.
     
  12. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    Tribhuwana would be a good choice - especially since they want female leaders.
     
  13. Art Grin

    Art Grin Emperor

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    What would actually be a good UU for Indonesia?
    What characterized the warfare of the Majapahit or Srivijaya?
     
  14. Scaramanga

    Scaramanga Brickhead

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    Who knows? There's a real lack of any uniqueness about this potential civ other than "being from Indonesia". At least Polynesia had Maori Warriors and Easter Island heads. There's no "marquee" unit, building or ability that would sufficiently entertain me at this point (it's a game, don't judge me :D). Borobudur is pretty awe-inspiring but unfortunately Wonders are not directly associated with Civs. I'm sure I'll gain some perspective from an Indonesian but I'll resent it if they're shoehorned in.
     
  15. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    When I was doing some reading, trying to figure out what the heck people make such a big deal out of Indonesia for, I came to the same conclusion. The only thing I could figure is that they'd get a naval UU and a land UU that has something to do with Krys knives. I could also see them getting a special settler to represent how they colonized on Madagascar.
     
  16. mitsho

    mitsho Deity

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    The civ suggestions for those civ have been concentrating on a "archipelago" theme, a civ that works best with cities on lots of islands. That sounds like a start to build something around. Starting with the gameplay, I can see a UA with bonuses on sea ressources and (internal?) naval trade routes, one coastal unique (a ship or a harbour/seaport UB) and one "tagged upon" land UU.

    Knowing nothing of the region, I recognized the strange knife represented above (the Kris). I can see them doing a Unique Unit on that, or at least it's my primary candidate for a civ symbol. There are too many sword UU already, but that hasn't stopped them (see Byzantine Cataphract).
     
  17. seancolorado

    seancolorado Deity

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    it's really just a matter of exposure. i'm sure for most people around the world who don't study western culture that there's no uniqueness to the greeks, no uniqueness to americans, etc, when compared to what they've learned. so you can't really say something like this just because you can't stereotype a visual in your head

    (which i'm not really trying to knock you for by the way. the game has a lot to do with what is marketable, but at the same time i smh when people downplay certain civs just because they don't know about them. i saw the same thing happen with songhai when they were announced as a civ despite the fact that the songhai were really unique, influential)
     
  18. AessaSH

    AessaSH Warlord

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    Considering that Indonesian is an archipelagic area.., I dare say we will get the naval UU..
    Unfortunately.., information about detail of Srivijaya/Majapahit naval warfare is very little and scattered (at least for me) despite their accomplishment, launching many of naval expeditions..
    I found a great ebook about Southeast Asian Past.. Indonesian naval is featured in the last chapter..

    Various units that will be likely become the Indonesian UU :
    - Javanese "Jong" Ship
    - Malays "Lanchara" Ship
    - Buginese "Pinisi" Ship
    Actually, there are dozen of ship types in Indonesia.. But they lack of description text especially in english.. :sad:

    Beside naval UU, they can use Malays "Laksamana" as Indonesian Great Admiral..
    Majapahit itself have an elite force of soldiers similiar to Persian Immortal.. Their name is "Bhayangkara".. They fought using pencak silat technique, Indonesian indigenous martial arts.. They are also carry a kris in their back for the last resort..
    Spoiler Majapahitan troop :


    Well.., not really.. :rolleyes:
    If we use a group of people as an UU.., then Indonesia will have more than 300 UUs..
    Spoiler :

    Spoiler More Picts :

    Malays - Javanese & Buginese - Dayaks - Asmat Papuan


    And that's applied to their UB too.. :D
     
  19. steveg700

    steveg700 Deity

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    @AessaSH, that's a lot of really great info. I wish you (and others) would participate in the Ideas & Suggestions forum to help put together ideas for new civ's.

    Here's an idea I posted over in the "Civ's/Leaders Wanted" thread.


    INDONESIA/MAJAPAHIT

    Leader: Hayam Wuruk.
    Capital: Jakarta (modern Indonesia)/Trowulan (classical empire)
    UA: Domineering Presence. +15 to :c5influence: influence resting point with city-states that border Indonesia/Majapahit. Bordering tiles can be demanded as tribute (-15 :c5influence: for one tile).
    UB: Candi. Replaces shrine. +1 :c5culture: culture for each religion with followers in the city.
    UU: Cetbang Warship. Replaces galleas. Has +20% :c5strength: against city-states, and when near a city-state demands for tribute generate +50% more :c5gold: gold.

    THEMES
    Majapahit had about a hundred tributary states under its thumb, so the "X's" that this civ focuses on are expand and exploit. Get your borders to adjoin city-states, and then exploit them. Being able to demand tiles addresses a common problem with demanding tribute: sure, you get gold but the influence loss works against an alliance that will grant access to their resources. Go ahead and demand those resource tiles.

    The red-brick candi temples are the most identifiable remnants of Indonesia's former empires. Theirs was a syncretic people, and they embraced both Hinduism and Buddhism, and later Islam would be proselytized there as well before becoming the dominant religion through conquest. So, the temple actually encourages the presence of multiple religions through extra culture, and that extra culture facilitates expansion of borders.

    The cetbang was a type of cannon which gave Majapahit its edge on all the tributaries who might think of stepping out of line. As such, it's an effective tool for exploitation, and promotes that thalassocratic that some folks feel is vital to represent.

    Here are some alternate uniques for considration:

    UA: Overlord. Pledges of protection provide a +20 increase to the :c5ifnluence: influence resting point with city-states (instead of +10).
    UB: Wayang Theatre. Replaces colosseum. +2 :c5happy:, +2 :c5culture: culture:
    UB: Candi Temple (an alternate candi). Replaces temple. Cities with a candi can spend :c5faith: faith to purchase tiles (same cost as spending gold).
    UU: Silat Swordsman. Replaces swordsman. Units wounded by a Silat Swordsman heal with only 50% effectiveness. This effect ends once the unit heals to full health.
     
  20. Nirosi

    Nirosi Hymenopus Coronatus

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    steveg700:Good ideas, but I for myself wuld like some mix of trade/culture/religion better.
    I like your silat swordasman idea, but maybe it should be Bhayangkara Guard(with the same boni) Cause the used Kerises too.And in times of war everyone had carried 3 Kerises.

    About the Coat of Arms:I think it should be a Surya Majapahit and as for colours I would like these:http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Thomas68/Majapahit_in_Civ_V
     
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