Re: Metal casing - the forges are great - but without copper, the colossus is quite an expensive wonder - although nice with all the water around. I think the stone makes the pyramids better... though like you say I wonder if vultures (and settlers) might make a better wonder. Provided we have iron, that is.
spies, continued
- Thread starter Admiral Kutzov
- Start date
How about a feudalism slingshot with oracle? Could be possible on monarch, although my feeling says its now earlier built by the BtS-AI. With priesthood we just research monarchy ourselfs (helps also with happyness) and get protective longbows with feudalism. Nice fallback if we have no iron.
About Pyramids, I would try them later, not as a priority, maybe in some slow building filler town, because
EDIT: just thinking out loud, cause CoL slingshot is really overdone, and its seems like a big waste with ziggurats.
About Pyramids, I would try them later, not as a priority, maybe in some slow building filler town, because
sooooo said:
EDIT: just thinking out loud, cause CoL slingshot is really overdone, and its seems like a big waste with ziggurats.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
I don't think we have the leisure of researching monarchy by hand though, we have no marble to speed up Oracle, I'm quite uncomfortable with that. And I also doubt that we can get the pyramids if we don't start soon, which I'm leaning more and more against, since we>'ll have good civics all around soon anyways.
Mîtiu Ioan
Deity
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
But do we really want to revolt 2-3 times?
Admiral Kutzov
Idiot Emeritus
In no particular order:
although we've got the cheap ziggurats, a religion would be nice since it appears it would b exclusive to our continents. the slavery v. caste choice is one we can delay for a while.
? Not this early.
How much of a priority is fuedalism? No vassals enabled.
those horses near Freddie worry me. I'd like to block his expansion to the south with the beach spot and then expand up the coast while gathering vultures for the inevitable war.
although we've got the cheap ziggurats, a religion would be nice since it appears it would b exclusive to our continents. the slavery v. caste choice is one we can delay for a while.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
Alright, then full steam on iron, pick CoL for the religion, prepare for a border town up there, set us up for vultures, chop the oracle like there's no boobs tomorrow.
Brb.
Brb.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
Pre-Turn:
Those irrigations near IA will be very nice in many many turns, right now however we need camps and chops. Proceed as planned for the Oracle.
Keep the monument build in the capital because it will overrun whipped shields into the Oracle. Would have done it with the lib this turn and monument later but the cards are laid. Will try and repeat the operation with the library in 10.
Sci increased for Priesthood in 1.
Cretin will push worker/settler, Happy will keep working on its Granary for a while since the worker supply is running from Cretin.
T1.
Priest >>> IW
T3.
Win a fight against a barb archer in the forest
T4.
Misclick our dignhy towards our own coast while there's more to explore on the other side
T6.
Notice a barbie village up North
Hey there!
T8 or something like that.
Confiucianism spreads in Happytown, missionary sent down to the capital on the assumption that Cretinburg will soon be busy with building troop after troop while the capital is more all-round and would get a monastery if only for the science increase.
T11.
We have 2 iron sources
Start research on Mathematics: we'll need it for bureaucracy, catapults, currency and plantations. Bigger chops also is good.
T11.
Here's a view of the Atoll to India:
We have another confucian adept, on which I didn't even spend our missionnary:
Watch it:
We can now cut down jungle so I'd take a worker to irrigate the rice now.
Most of the micro is growth-oriented: cottages if I could, or food. We haven't revolted to Confucianism yet, I tend to wait until I need the happy faces, but then I have no clue what I'm doing in civ 4.
I spent my set scouting through german soil, they have 2 cities, chariots, but no ore. We will need a couple of spears to head in there but with 3-4 catapults and a dozen vultures, we'll chew through him like Tubby's little marshmallow man avatar.
With Iron, I recommend we research through construction now and start researching civics techs while we build a war machine.
Those irrigations near IA will be very nice in many many turns, right now however we need camps and chops. Proceed as planned for the Oracle.
Keep the monument build in the capital because it will overrun whipped shields into the Oracle. Would have done it with the lib this turn and monument later but the cards are laid. Will try and repeat the operation with the library in 10.
Sci increased for Priesthood in 1.
Cretin will push worker/settler, Happy will keep working on its Granary for a while since the worker supply is running from Cretin.
T1.
Priest >>> IW
T3.
Win a fight against a barb archer in the forest
T4.
Misclick our dignhy towards our own coast while there's more to explore on the other side
T6.
Notice a barbie village up North
Hey there!
T8 or something like that.
Confiucianism spreads in Happytown, missionary sent down to the capital on the assumption that Cretinburg will soon be busy with building troop after troop while the capital is more all-round and would get a monastery if only for the science increase.
T11.
We have 2 iron sources
Start research on Mathematics: we'll need it for bureaucracy, catapults, currency and plantations. Bigger chops also is good.
T11.
Here's a view of the Atoll to India:
We have another confucian adept, on which I didn't even spend our missionnary:
Watch it:
We can now cut down jungle so I'd take a worker to irrigate the rice now.
Most of the micro is growth-oriented: cottages if I could, or food. We haven't revolted to Confucianism yet, I tend to wait until I need the happy faces, but then I have no clue what I'm doing in civ 4.
I spent my set scouting through german soil, they have 2 cities, chariots, but no ore. We will need a couple of spears to head in there but with 3-4 catapults and a dozen vultures, we'll chew through him like Tubby's little marshmallow man avatar.
With Iron, I recommend we research through construction now and start researching civics techs while we build a war machine.
Admiral Kutzov
Idiot Emeritus
send a spy to cut the horses, predeclaration? haven't looked at the save yet. but, I feel much better knowing
Admiral Kutzov
Idiot Emeritus
Looked at the save, woulda build the Ziggurat in Cretinberg, employed a spy specialist and then started the settler, but no worries, only a stylistic difference. Maybe whip it when it only costs 2 pop? In any event, Cretin finishes the settler, the ziggurat, employs a spy specialist and then goes exclusively to vultures or spears.
I opened the save, talked to Freddy, and he's actually got three cities.
Refreshing our memory on proposed future cities and proposing new ones.
Weight all the spy points to Freddy. Strong suggestion. we get enough built up against him, we can hit him by disconnecting his horses, revolting his cities pre-cats.
I opened the save, talked to Freddy, and he's actually got three cities.
Refreshing our memory on proposed future cities and proposing new ones.
Weight all the spy points to Freddy. Strong suggestion. we get enough built up against him, we can hit him by disconnecting his horses, revolting his cities pre-cats.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
Agree with spy points, my bad I forgot/overlooked; not sure about moai city - I'd do it in GP farm. But it looks like a fine city split on its own, more cities, less powerful locations, but more tiles worked in the long run.
Admiral Kutzov
Idiot Emeritus
Revised roster:
beorn - found 2 metal!
mitiu -up
wenz - on deck
trivial - maybe our first warrior
ak - just learned that GP don't spawn GPP
; what an idiot.
beorn - found 2 metal!
mitiu -up
wenz - on deck
trivial - maybe our first warrior
ak - just learned that GP don't spawn GPP
; what an idiot.Mîtiu Ioan
Deity
I'll take a look on the save this evening when I'll return home ( ~12 hrs from now ).
Looks good there - Nice turns Beorn. 
Also like the idea of lots of smaller cities - the land is right for it and get good returns on hiring spy specialists...
Think spy wrecking Freddie would be in keeping with the spirit of this game? Sabotage and ninja attacks all round?
For warfare, is it worth heading for the HBR/Construction combo - elephants would massacre any chariots he's managed to push out?
Also like the idea of lots of smaller cities - the land is right for it and get good returns on hiring spy specialists...
Think spy wrecking Freddie would be in keeping with the spirit of this game? Sabotage and ninja attacks all round?
For warfare, is it worth heading for the HBR/Construction combo - elephants would massacre any chariots he's managed to push out?
Well played beorn, getting the oracle so fast was probably the right move, even if we got "only" CoL with it 
. And nice to see theres another gangster out there. Cant look at the save from work, so:
Do we have sailing, can we open the borders with gandhi before he hates us to much for our beliefs? Because overseas traderoutes with him would be worth 3 raw commerce.
I´m not sure if attacking soon is worth it, we could rather settle and improve our lands first, while letting the guys trade techs, so we can steal their knowledge. I see the point with elephants and cats against freddy. But why not try out the espionage features first? How about a cold war of sabotage vs. the evil germans?
And about research, let´s steal the "normal" techs, while beelining for certain things. My suggestion after math:
-> Civil Service (BureaucraZy)
-> Metal Casting (Forges, pretech for:
-> Machinery (Maceman and protective Crossbows)
-> Construction (cats, phants, pretech for:
-> Engineering !! (with stone and protective trait, castles are like a second UB for us, +1 trade route and +25% espionage points!!)
I like the Admirals city spots, pretty much where I would put them, too. Mouwi-statues is excellent.
. And nice to see theres another gangster out there. Cant look at the save from work, so: Do we have sailing, can we open the borders with gandhi before he hates us to much for our beliefs? Because overseas traderoutes with him would be worth 3 raw commerce.
I´m not sure if attacking soon is worth it, we could rather settle and improve our lands first, while letting the guys trade techs, so we can steal their knowledge. I see the point with elephants and cats against freddy. But why not try out the espionage features first? How about a cold war of sabotage vs. the evil germans?
And about research, let´s steal the "normal" techs, while beelining for certain things. My suggestion after math:
-> Civil Service (BureaucraZy)
-> Metal Casting (Forges, pretech for:
-> Machinery (Maceman and protective Crossbows)
-> Construction (cats, phants, pretech for:
-> Engineering !! (with stone and protective trait, castles are like a second UB for us, +1 trade route and +25% espionage points!!)
I like the Admirals city spots, pretty much where I would put them, too. Mouwi-statues is excellent.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
Protective crossbows would be nice against a no-horse opponent: drill and (possibly) shock against melee units would raise a little hell. I do think that without metal, we can just vulture rush the living crap out of Freddy. 4-5 catapults, 12 vultures, bing bam badaboom.
Admiral Kutzov
Idiot Emeritus
with the spy points you've got to figure out at least 20-30 turns in advance who you're going after (by either war or sabotage). No point at sending any points at pericles or gandhi now. freddie is the obvious choice.
Note 3.13 has a spy bug, all spies in enemy territory will be evicted when we go to war, so there is no point in prepositioning them.
other thing to consider that with ziggurats, we can run a spy specialist in every city.
figure 3 spies to gaurantee a success with whatever you're doing. anectdotal evidence only. one may store them in a border city to help guard aginst border incursions as well.
a sweet little spy mission in the early game is to poison the water supply so the AI has whipping problems when you're attacking.
My favorite spy mission is steal technology.
I would avoid the spy bomb this early, simply cause I think we get better use other places.
@ wenz - i'm
.
B, missed it earlier, but
Note 3.13 has a spy bug, all spies in enemy territory will be evicted when we go to war, so there is no point in prepositioning them.
other thing to consider that with ziggurats, we can run a spy specialist in every city.
figure 3 spies to gaurantee a success with whatever you're doing. anectdotal evidence only. one may store them in a border city to help guard aginst border incursions as well.
a sweet little spy mission in the early game is to poison the water supply so the AI has whipping problems when you're attacking.
My favorite spy mission is steal technology.
I would avoid the spy bomb this early, simply cause I think we get better use other places.
@ wenz - i'm
.
are you advocating we research or steal the above?
devious. I like it.
B, missed it earlier, but
another benefit is avoiding the negative from adapting a heathen religion.
Admiral Kutzov
Idiot Emeritus
everyone has good ideas, and I can see ways to make all of them work. to try and get a consensus, please choose:
1. expand up the coast v. backfill the east and south.
2. maces or cats and jumbos?
3. combat spies or tech stealing spies?
I been in SG's where there's been no team goal. they're okay, but it is more fun when everyone is on the same page. so let's establish a strategic plan then a tactical plan.
and BTW, excellent discussions so far.
to all.
1. expand up the coast v. backfill the east and south.
2. maces or cats and jumbos?
3. combat spies or tech stealing spies?
I been in SG's where there's been no team goal. they're okay, but it is more fun when everyone is on the same page. so let's establish a strategic plan then a tactical plan.
and BTW, excellent discussions so far.
to all.Very good point on the lack of clear goals there... and quite agree.
My prefereance for a short term strategy would be to steal Freddies lands.
Seems to be a consensus on that anyhow?
Longer term - not sure till we get a feel for what the AIs are doing.
On the multi choice menu:
1) I think we should backfill E and S... Freddie will hopefully makes some cities for us and it keeps the frontline shorter.
2) Think vultures and cats should be our main army. The upgrade path for vultures is better IMO - get the most out of any vets we make. A few elephants would be great to crush Freddies cavalry - however the research sidetrack may not be worth it.
3) With Freddie, I'd be inclined to steal cheaper techs off him. We have a land link and can wheel in lots of artillery. Feel the combat spies against freddie would be overkill. IMO they're at their best against cities with huge cultural defenses or overseas.
My prefereance for a short term strategy would be to steal Freddies lands.
Seems to be a consensus on that anyhow?Longer term - not sure till we get a feel for what the AIs are doing.
On the multi choice menu:
1) I think we should backfill E and S... Freddie will hopefully makes some cities for us and it keeps the frontline shorter.
2) Think vultures and cats should be our main army. The upgrade path for vultures is better IMO - get the most out of any vets we make. A few elephants would be great to crush Freddies cavalry - however the research sidetrack may not be worth it.
3) With Freddie, I'd be inclined to steal cheaper techs off him. We have a land link and can wheel in lots of artillery. Feel the combat spies against freddie would be overkill. IMO they're at their best against cities with huge cultural defenses or overseas.
Mîtiu Ioan
Deity
Sorry guys - no time yesterday to take my turn ( because of some "social life obligations" ) and I'll not have time until tommorow morning to play my turns.
If this delay is to much - please skip me this time.
Regards and sorry for delay
) and I'll not have time until tommorow morning to play my turns.If this delay is to much - please skip me this time.
Regards and sorry for delay
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