*Spoiler1* Gotm17- Early Specific Map

[Vici]

My first post. My first QSC submission.
I have been lurking here for a few months learning lots from you guys. Thanks. :worshp:

Having completed my QSC and thought I had done fairly well until I saw how fast some others had grown. I still have a lot to learn.

I expected that the Great Lighthouse would be a major factor in this game which somewhat influenced my decision to found on the coast.
I built a granary before settler - probably a mistake in this situation.

2630BC Utica founded.
1790BC Leptis Magna founded.
1350BC Lighthouse complete in Carthage.
1000BC Contact the Egyptians.
I didn't note which of map making or code of law I traded to Egypt for all her gold and tech
(Bronze working, The wheel, Warrior code, and Cermonial burial).
I may have messed up by giving map making. Either that or she learned it soon afterwards because she founded a few cities on offshore islands that I had my eye on.

875BC Hippo Founded.
610BC Leptis Minor Founded.
470BC Sabratha founded.
430BC Rusicade founded.
310AD Oea founded.
290BC Hadrumetum founded.
210BC Cirta founded on beside Iron on island East of Egypt to keep swords away from Egypt.
250AD Declare war on Egypt.
320AD Nora founded.
400AD Golden age triggered by hoplite.
590AD Egypt eliminated.

I was reasonably happy with the war against Egypt. The biggest upset was losing a stack of units that were recovering when Thebes flipped back in one turn.
I lost very little in other flips. Anything that flipped was recaptured the next turn. I was in republic during the war and although I was experiencing some war weariness I wanted to eliminate Egypt to avoid losing ground to flips. I kept all cities I captured. I figured that If I could eliminate her it would have been a waste to raze the cities. (I did move a city by one tile later in the game).

I got no great leaders. I popped two huts on the
island west of Egypt homeland got barbs both times. I didn't see any other huts.
I tamed two volcanos (Mt. Etna and Mt. Vesuvious). It looks like Egypt got another because one of the workers I captured from her was an eq-worker. I didn't know what to expect from the first volcano (Mt. Etna) so I sent about six warriors to tame it. In fact the volcanos were no problem.
I only saw two squid. I killed one and avoided the other. I had no problem with the fog, except that it slowed down my contact with Egypt. I just made contact in 1000BC. I had one galley redlined but lost none. I used the fog to promote my galleys to help eliminate any Egyptian galleys I saw during the war. (I did lose one galley to Egypt).

 

[Pikachu]

This is my first submitted GOTM. I thought it would be an easy win since it was regent level. To make it interesting I decided to try a new strategy: Cultural win Well, the game did not turn out exactly the way I planed

My first important decision was of course were to put my capital. The starting location was good, but had some drawbacks. Most important: it was not at the coast. I believe that's a major drawback at an archipelago map so I moved one tile east and founded Carthage. Then started to build warriors until population allowed building a settler. Then I founded my second city by the floodplain-grains in the far west. That would from now on be my worker and settler factory.

Then I had to make the second important decision: Since this is an archipelago map I find two wonders mandatory: The Great Lighthouse for early exploration and the Great Library because I fear I will lag big time in tech race. The AI usually likes to build the Great Lighthouse so I was not sure if I would be able to put it up in time. If I tried and failed, I could possibly lose the Great Library to so I took the safe route and went for the Great Library first and got it. Actually I managed to get the Great Lighthouse too in the same city so now I should be able to rule the ancient world

Time for exploration! I discovered Alexandria in 370 BC and bought the Egyptian map. Then a lot of galleys were sent out to the dangerous oceans to seek for distant civilizations. How that crazy plan worked out belongs in the next spoiler

Here's a screenshot of my little civilization at 10 AD:

 

[tao]

Since I'm a Mac player this is my 1st GOTM participation and I enjoyed it very much (up to now).

We decided to build Carthage immediately. I did not trust the GOTM stuff to design a map very obvious after a simple worker move . Might have been an error. OTOH, mm and tile shuffling between Carthage and Utica often saved a turn and/or gave some extra food and/or commerce.

We met Egypt and established an embassy with them (cost -44, QSC score +30, sold ROP for +52, nice deal).
Built GLight and Leonardo's, claimed all iron sources denying them to Egypt.
Our initial research strategy was towards map making. We then aimed to finish republic by the time we got GLight and succeeded. Hoped to pick up other techs from trade, which we did once we met Egypt.

Over time, we lost 5 galleys on suicide runs; decided to better build Copernicus' first.

I decided to sail around the fog until the harbor in Theveste on the western peninsula built vet galleys. Afterwards galleys cleared fogs and killed 2 squids without loosing more than an occasional hit point.
Volcanoes cleared by vet swords; no casualties.

Bad thing: our wars with Egypt did not produce any Great Leader; it will be a pain to build the FP.

Good thing: no disease yet from flood plains, only growth.

4000 found Carthage
3450 discover pottery
3050 b granary
2670 Utica founded
2430 discover writing
2390 Leptis Magna founded
2030 Theveste founded
1675 discover map making
1500 discover philosophy
1425 Hippo founded
1250 Leptis Minor founded on W island near fish, whale
1200 our galley sees yellow border
1150 Sabratha founded in the N
1100 contact with Egypt (polite); no comms, trade them writing for bronze, ceremonial, 52g
trade them philosophy, code of law, tm, 46g for iron working, wheel, myst, wm
1050 embassy w Egypt, Egypt gives 52g, wm for ROP
1000 donate Egypt 10g, trade wm for +25g
900 Rusicade founded near iron on island W of Egypt
825 Oea founded near wines on iron island; trade Egypt map making, wm, 15g for polytheism, wm
750 Ligurians tell us literature, trade literature to Egypt for warrior code + 36g
690 discover republic
650 English finish Colossus in London
610 Leptis Magna b GLight; delay switch to republic till next turn (prolongate ROP, trade math first)
590 discover math; trade Egypt ROP, math for horseback, 46g, wm
set 1 scientist on currency
revolt, 3 turns, 2 entertainers, 3 specials to keep people quite
530 neoCarthage is republic
430 new iron source detected east of Egypt; have to claim it with next settler
390 Hadrumetum founded on horse/incense island
discover currency
250 discover construction, enter Middle Ages
210 Egypt builds Pyramids in Thebes (great; will be ours)
found Cadiz (E island), Citra (near iron E of Egypt) , Nora (on incense)
190 Greek Athens b Oracle
170 Egypt b GWall in Heliopolis (pretty worthless, but will be ours also)
30 Rusaddir founded on east-most island's flood plains
10 incense connected; we now have 3 lux

30 Persepolis b GLib

{it is better to wait on any mention of the middle ages to avoid any invitation to create unwarranted spoilers - cracker}

Interpreting the wonder pop-ups and lists of largest nations, this game should be won by now.

 

[AgedOne]

Hannibaline and her followers started out by thinking that with 13 nations and only 1400 dry land tiles in the whole world, we’d probably be sharing our start island with somebody. As we all now know, this wasn’t the case – there weren’t even any minor tribes to keep us company. We were also well aware that getting off the home island was going to be kind of essential.

With the stinging criticism of GOTM16 QSC still ringing in our ears, we called our best strategists back from … wherever strategists spend their days in 4000BC. We were certainly going to leave no deer unturned this time around. We decided that our capital should be on the coast. This wasn’t simply because of our need to have a port and a base for the Gt Lighthouse, but also because there were 3 bonus grasslands in reach that could boost the productivity.

A couple of hundred years later, we spotted the location for the second city. Flood plains with wheat and some nearby ivory meant this was going to become the settler farm, while the capital remained a base for general productivity.

However, by BC 2800 we’d completed the exploration of our lonely home, and realised … we’d got to get off of here and soon! There was scarcely another powerful terrain square on the whole island after the first 2 or 3 towns were built.

We started researching Map Making in 2190 BC and had learned it by 1425 BC. This was the moment to strip the outer covers from the ‘Pyramids’ we’d been building since 2270 – revealing the close-to-operational ‘Great Lighthouse’ housed inside ! A few nail-biting years later – 1100 BC to be exact – the great light shone out and our galleys began to push back the fog with a renewed vigour and confidence.

Our warriors were a little nervous of trying to topple the great volcanoes they found. That had to wait until the swordsmen went abroad in the years leading up to 0AD.

We made contact with the Egyptians about 1000BC. So polite. Such nice land compared to ours. We smiled sweetly and tried to push those feelings of guilt well down out of sight. We’d be killing these guys soon. Before they got to any iron, we hoped.

In 130AD we built an impressive Great Library. So empty. Only our own books and the Egyptians. Would it ever come in useful? Hopefully we’d find some other folks in this big wet world before it crumbled away to dust.

320AD. Having manoeuvred swordsmen into position near a number of Egyptian towns – we took Cleopatra’s ambassador to one side and told him that he’d better take down the best china. We’re coming in.

We’re not the most ruthless of killers. The year is now 710AD and we’ve just started to invade the Egyptian mainland. We have removed them from all their further flung islands. We would surely have despatched them faster were it not for the ‘miracle of Thebes’. We took the capital in 530AD. In 550AD. Notice that. 550AD! Only 2 turns later! The Theban fools overthrew the military that we had there – attacking them with tools and cutlery from their homes – leaving crack Spartans and Swordsmen dead.

A couple of incidents of note during the war.
In 460AD a lone Egyptian warrior contingent that had been unsettling the locals on the southern island got drunk on the local spirit and attacked the town of Cirta – defended by veteran Spartans. News of the Spartan victory over the mighty drunken warriors spread through our empire. The usual exaggeration took place in the telling. By the end of the year it was a Golden Age throughout all our lands!
Then in 550AD our Swordsmen forces came under heavy attack deep behind enemy lines in the Egyptian homeland. One especially courageous unit became known as Big Slicey – and their leader Hamilcar supervised the building of a Forbidden Palace in Ravenna on the nearby island. Big Slicey went down in battle in 570AD, but the palace remained as a monument to their bravery.

This story must end now, as reports from travelling galleys have told of ….. but that’s for another time.

 

[Zwingli]

This is my first attempt at GOTM, and I am surprised at the amount of strategic decisions necessary for this particular map.


After moving the starting worker onto the mountain, I moved the starting settler south to bring in the floodplain wheat. I might not normally move the worker to an unfavorable location just for scouting purposes, but the tiles to the east under the fog looked to be either desert or floodplains, and knowledge of which kind of terrain lay there was necessary (If it had been desert I might have moved to the coast). I founded 8 cities on the starting island, and got contact with Egypt in 1325 BC.


At 10 AD, neoCarthage declared war on Egypt, and captured Elephantine 1 turn later. Elephantine flipped 2-3 turns after it was captured, taking out 4 swordmen, a Spartan, and 3 catapults. This essentially wiped out my insufficient invasion force, but I kept the war going for quite a while more in hopes of getting a leader. The entire first war was fought out of Elephantine with limited troops as I was using the Golden Age production to make infrastructure.

(Recaptured) Elepantine is set up to attract weak offensive units in hopes of a leader, with catapults to ensure that my lone elite unit can attack at every opportunity without suffering much damage. Unfortunately, Egypt sent very few units into the trap and I was unable to trigger their Golden age to get more targets.


Other Miscellany:
Built the Great Lighthouse (somewhat useful).
All all cities except for the capital are coastal.
Built an early granery.
Early Tech research focused on Mapmaking.
Later Tech research focused on the "upper" Middle Age techs.
As of Astronomy, culture gap is closing with Egypt.
Egypt apparently got at least 1 city out of a hut.

 

[Shillen]

I liked your story AgedOne.

I don't understand why people are so compelled to settle the capital on the coast. I don't see any big advantage to doing so. On the contrary the closer you are to the coast the farther you'll be from your other cities and you won't fight corruption as well. The advantage I can see to settling on the coast is to be able to build the Great Lighthouse and other coastal wonders there, and also get extra commerce for science, but not until you have a harbor. The downside is reduced production because of all those coastal squares. I just think it's not worth it overall. You can just put other cities on the coast to get all those benefits without having to move your original settler.

 

[Ribannah]

In this month's game the idea of having your capital on the coast wasn't so bad. There is land on the other side of the water, so it's central enough. And there are enough productive tiles nearby that you don't have to 'suffer' from the improductive water tiles.

The real killer is the lack of bonus food squares.

Still, the difference is bearable provided you start building a Granary right away and complete it before growing to size 3. You can even time it exactly right so you can build a Settler in 20 turns. Then while the capital starts on the Colossus or prebuilding the Lighthouse, the Settler can found at the floodplains.

Settling on the jungle tile is superior in terms of early expansion. You have access to the same productive squares AND you will be able to grow fast, which gives a lot of extra options to optimize your opening play. The drawback is that the chance that another civ beats you to the Lighthouse / Colossus (whichever you prefer), or both even, is higher. On this map and with so many civs, there could be several with a productive capital on the coast.

 

[Renata]

Originally posted by Ribannah

Settling on the jungle tile is superior in terms of early expansion. You have access to the same productive squares AND you will be able to grow fast, which gives a lot of extra options to optimize your opening play. The drawback is that the chance that another civ beats you to the Lighthouse / Colossus (whichever you prefer), or both even, is higher. On this map and with so many civs, there could be several with a productive capital on the coast.

That's *exactly* how it worked out for me. Settled on the jungle tile, wound up missing the lighthouse by 10 turns, BUT managed to get 12 cities down by 1000 BC, all from Carthage-built settlers --- a terrific rate of expansion considering all the mistakes I know I made.

Renata

 

[tao]

Originally posted by Ribannah
The drawback is that the chance that another civ beats you to the Lighthouse / Colossus (whichever you prefer), or both even, is higher. On this map and with so many civs, there could be several with a productive capital on the coast.

I build Leptis Magna 2390 as 3rd city on the southern coast and joined 2 workers created in the granaried Carthage/Utica to speed GLight. And it succeeded in 610.

 

[Shillen]

I had no doubt I'd finish the Great Lighthouse first. I guess on a higher difficulty you'd definitely want your capital on the coast in order to get it. I didn't even use any special tactic like joining workers or anything. I've never had the AI build the Great Lighthouse before 10AD on regent level.

And yeah the point about moving away from the center of your empire doesn't really apply on this map, but I guess I wasn't really talking about this game in particular. On any map, if my initial settler is one square from the coast I'll almost never move him. I've just read a lot of guides/posts where people make a big deal about capital being on the coast and I didn't understand it.

I agree that the jungle tile 1 south is the best starting location, but you wouldn't know that unless you gambled by moving your worker to the mountain.

 

[Ribannah]

Tao,

I take it that in your game a certain other civ built the Colossus. If they had picked the Lighthouse instead, 610BC would have been too late.
In my own game I took that risk, too, and completed The Lighthouse in 550 BC (no Workers sacked, my Leptis Magna was founded in 2070BC west of the floodplains). But I knew it was a gamble.

 

[ControlFreak]

I wish there was a way to find out how close the other civs were to building the Lighthouse. It was a nailbiter hoping I would get it. When I did, it was sort of anticlimactic not know if anyone missed it by a turn or two.

 

[Yndy]

I was also willing to gamble the Lighthouse as I moved my settler to the jungle and then founded another two cities by the floodplains and only then built a fourth city on the coast that headed directly towards the Lighthouse. It got it around 400 BC. I tried to do a similar thing with my 5th or 6th town (was building a lot of them at that time) and build the Collosus. Unfortunately others built it by 200BC, which made me think that I was safe with the Lighthouse and could even do them both had I reversed the build order.

 

[ControlFreak]

I didn't realize how much easier it is to get an ancient wonder on Regent. With the last two GOTM at monarch and emperor, I dont think I went for any wonders until Smiths.

I agree with Yndy that both Colosus and Lighthouse were attainable if started on early.

 

[Renata]

@Shillen -

In my game another civ built the lighthouse in the BCs (will have to check the game for the exact date). It's *just* possible that they did it with a leader, as there was evidence of a war there when I finally met up with them.

Renata

self-edited to remove names of civs; not sure exactly if it would be a spoiler or not

 

[Justus II]

Yndy, I had debated just what you said, reversing the build order. In hindsight, that would easily have worked, completing the colossus first, then the Lighthouse, as I got the lighthouse done in plenty of time (1225BC IIRC), and only missed Colossus by 4 turns (that was my own fault, I had just come out of 4 turns of anarchy). I built my capital in the flood plains, then rushed my first settler out (like turn 17 using pop rush) and built Utica on the coast, that was my wonder producer.

 

[tao]

Originally posted by Ribannah
Tao,
I take it that in your game a certain other civ built the Colossus. If they had picked the Lighthouse instead, 610BC would have been too late.

This is not so. If you look at my timeline above, you see that London built Colossus in 650, i.e. 1 turn before I build GLight. And Colossus is 200 shields vs. 300 for GLight. If I would have chosen Colossus, it would have been mine.

 

[Ribannah]

In my game, the Colossus was built by an AI civ in 1125 BC.

 

[AgedOne]

@Shillen
Glad you liked my tale of the Hannibalites. (Not quite in the same class as Zachriel's epics tho. :worshp: )


I wasn't exactly 'compelled' to found Carthage-on-sea. I did think about the location a while first. I thought the original start position had a hill for defence and 2 'bonus grass by river' that are as near to power squares as you get on this island.

I could see that the coast move gave an extra one of these squares and meant that Carthage would be more of a builder than a settler-farm. Builder on the coast meant the Gt Lighthouse.

I also considered looking over the mountains with the worker, but that was a move lost on a gamble and I'm afraid the criticisms of GOTM16 QSC really were ringing in my ears. I wasn't going to waste worker moves.

As to the race for the Gt L, well I must confess to bitten nails. I know 1100BC is waaay early for the AI to beat me to it, but I've been beaten by 1 turn so many times and Mrs AgedOne can testify to my reactions when that happens. It ain't a pretty sight! :suicide:

 

[a space oddity]

Another first timer here.

Interesting game this GOTM. The clouds are a nice add-on. It makes discovery trips more lifelike IMO.

Here's an extract of my timeline:
4000BC Carthage on the hill
3350BC Pottery
2750BC Utica
1950BC Leptis Magna
1790BC Thevesta
1675BC Writing
1450BC Hippo
1225BC Map Making
1000BC Literature

I'm not sure how I did, but I can tell you I could make very nice deals with Cleo and holding MM back meant I could outgrow her easily. I also left attacking for later so I can enjoy my Golden Age when in Republic.

edit: For me, it's been a good start, it will be my first Regent win if I can keep it up!