*Spoiler1* Gotm17- Early Specific Map

I'm loving this game so far. I tried to expand quickly, and I ended up with around 8 or 9 cities on the first island, and at least three on each of the other small islands in the area.

After I met Egypt, I knew they had to go, for they were occupying valauble land my empire needed. I didn't get a sufficient attack force until around 400 AD, but one i did, the swordsman/Numidian Mercenary combo worked wonders. No GL unfortunately, so I began builing the FP by hand in Heliopolis.

Around 700 AD, a turn or two after the Egyptians were gone, a suicide galley was finally successful....more on that later though, for I fear the wrath of the red ink
 
The Great Lighthouse gives +1 move and safe sailing for galleys on SEA tiles, but they are still vulnerable on OCEAN tiles, right?

Those who have the Great Lighthouse, did you loose a galley to an Ocean tile?

While we're at it, does declaring war and moving into enemy territory on the same turn hurt one's reputation (like sneak attack)?
 
Just an FYI alamo,

There are really very few ocean tiles within the limits of the area of the map that we should all be discussing in this spoiler thread.
winky_yellow.gif
 
Started out expansion - covered all but the main Egyptian Isle and allowed one Egyptian city on each of the islands to either side of them. I got all the iron tho. Still, I'm so puny since I spent most of my production on settlers and a handful of defenders that I can't possibly get into a conflict with them right now. They stuck to their borders and got massive.

Presently catching up and exploring with my Lighthouse...
 
Originally posted by alamo
While we're at it, does declaring war and moving into enemy territory on the same turn hurt one's reputation (like sneak attack)?

No.
 
This is my first official gotm and it certainly has been fun. Thanks to cracker and the rest of the crew for a great game.

Thanks also to da_greatest and Shillen for pointing out that there almost certainly are flood plains to the west. As I said in the pre-game discussion, I think this makes it worthwhile to move the worker to the mountain in order to check out … at which point I discover wheat! So it seems obvious that Carthage should move to the jungle to the south and become a settler pump.

Like a couple of other people, I decide to build both the Great Library and the Great Lighthouse, thinking they would be important in this game. So I build a granary in Carthage and then start pumping out settlers. My next two cities each build a warrior and then start pre-building the two wonders. I complete the Lighthouse just as the QSC was about to end. My Great Library is still 32 turns from completion.

My decision to immediately start building the two wonders does not appear to hurt greatly hurt from an expansion POV. At this point, I have 10 cities on three islands and two settlers ready to build more.

The Library turns out to be useless, a complete waste of 300 shields. The Lighthouse definitely has helped though, even if I haven’t been able to find other civs. In 510BC, I switch to Republic just after whipping out a Harbour on my main island. After switching I buy one on each of the other two islands with luxuries. Thanks to my Lighthouse, citizens on three islands have three luxuries. At 70BC, I reach the point described by this thread. starting to research Engineering. I have 25 cities and am about to establish two more on the far island past Egypt. Cleo still only has the same 5 cities she had when I first met her.

In 50AD I go to upgrade a few warriors in order to shore up my Eastern defences and suddenly realize that I have never connected to Iron! So I buy Cleo off with a couple of gifts instead. She is happy with this and never enters my territory to discover innumerable cities sans any defence whatsoever.

In 90AD, Utica builds her second Wonder – the Hanging Gardens. As intended, this sets off my Golden Age. The freakin’ Library didn’t help for that either. I use the moment to start in on building my FP in Sulcis, two squares west of the Egyptian border. Two rounds later, the town is built up to size 6. The Wonder is supposed to be complete in 28 rounds. Of course, it’ll take more than that because my GA will be over first.

In 260AD, I learn Feudalism, which I decide to give to the Egyptians. Who cares? They have no source of iron. I don’t plan to build Sun Tzu but maybe they’ll do it for me? I also give her the other Ancient techs so she’ll start researching Monotheism, which I can trade for. Wish I’d thought of this earlier, actually.

It occurs to me that there might be a use for that Library after all. I’ll make a beeline for Military Tradition and crush the Egyptians with cavalry. Sixteen cavalry (to go with my four galleys) should wipe them out in about three rounds. In the meantime, maybe some of the computer civilizations will research stuff along the peaceful line. We shall see. At any rate, the Library does have at least one use. I’ll know for sure if anyone gets to Education. If that happens, I’ll have to make a race for Navigation and Magellan.

A hundred years later my GA ends. One of my cities on the far island just culture-flipped to the Egyptians. Oh well. That was liable to happen. Better that it be there than on the other side where Sulcis is still sixteen turns away from completing the FP. Once that happens, I’ll build a few barracks and restore Carthaginian honour. Score at 400 AD: Carthage 547, Egypt 234.

My QSC follows:

4000 move worker to mtn; settler to jungle to s
3950 build city, start warrior; move worker to ne C; research Pottery 100%
3900 start mine
3750 build mine, start road
3700 build warrior; move se
3650 build road, move w C
3600 start road; send warrior to west
3500 build warrior to explore ne; start barracks; build road, move to wheat
3450 start irrigation
3400 discover Pots, switch to BW, switch to building granary
3350 irrigate wheat; start road; send ne warrior to C
3250 finish road; send worker se C; discover fog to west
3200 start cut forest
2950 harvest forest; start road; move slider 8.1.1
2900 discover BW, switch Writing 100%; finish granary, switch settlers
2850 finish road, move ne2 C
2800 start road
2710 finish road, move nw
2670 finish settlers, start settlers; start mine
2630 build Utica, start warriors
2550 build mine, start road; move C to forest
2470 build road, move last dot; C build settlers, start worker; U build warrior, start Pyramids
2430 start mine
2390 C builds worker, start settlers, move sw wheat; build Leptis Magna, start warrior
2350 start road
2310 build mine, start road
2270 finish road, move sw
2230 L builds warrior, starts Colossus; move mined sq from C to U; finish road, move se C, start irrigation; start road
2190 Discover writing, switch to MM 90%;
2150 finish irrigation, move s; C builds settlers, starts settlers; finish road, move ne, start irrigation
2110 start cut forest
2070 finish irrigation, move n; Theveste established, start warriors
2030 hurry C
1990 C builds settlers, starts settlers
1950 finish road, start irrigation
1910 cut forest, start irrigation;
1870 finish irrigation, move w; Hippo established, start warriors
1830 start irrigation; finish irrigation, start road; move mined sq from L to U
1750 T builds warrior, starts worker; finish irrigation, start road; finish road, move sw L; C builds settlers, starts workers
1725 start irrigation
1700 finish road, move n H
1675 finish irrigation, start road; Leptis Minor established, start warriors; start irrigation
1650 C build workers, move s U, start mine, start settlers; switch H Hoplite
1625 finish irrigation, start road; finish road, move nw L; move LMin to irrigated plot
1600 discover MM, switch Literature 90%; switch U Lighthouse; switch H Galley, hurry H; start mine; T builds worker, move e, start irrigation, start warrior
1575 finish road, move se LMin; H build galley, send to other side of island, start warrior; finish mine, move n C
1550 start cut jungle; start mine; switch mined sq from C to U; finish irrigation, move sse LMin
1525 LMin builds warrior, starts warrior; finish mine, start road; start irrigation
1475 finish road, move nw; finish irrigation, start road; move LMin to flood plain
1450 C builds settlers, starts settlers, move settlers, warriors to boat; start mine
1425 Unload settlers, warrior on other island; switch T to galley; finish road, move sw H
1400 finish mine, start road; attack volcano, win workers, start road; H builds warriors, start settlers; start irrigation; Hurry T
1375 T builds galley, starts settlers; Sabratha established, start warriors; finish mine, start road; LMin builds warriors, starts settlers
1350 Learn literature, start TW 80%; finish irrigation, start road; switch L Great Library
1325 finish mine, move sw2 L; finish road, move n S, se S; finish road, move nw; start plowing into fog se of L
1300 start mine; start cut jungle; finish road, move nnw H; start cut forest; start cut forest; move mine on hill from C to U
1275 C builds settlers, starts settlers; start road; spot yellow; open goody hut, get CB; switch H to elephant
1250 learn TW, switch switch Philosophy 100%; contact Egypt, cleo has 5 cities; trade Alpha, WM, 25g for WC, Writing for IW + 25g, Literature for Mysticism + World Map + 15g; cleo also knows HR; Question: how did Alexandria get built when she doesn’t know MM? S builds warrior, starts harbour; cut jungle, start mine
1225 finish road, start irrigation
1200 T builds warrior, starts settlers; Rusicade established, start warrior; hurry C
1175 finish mine, start road; finish irrigation, move ne R; C builds settlers, start settlers
1150 move L to mined hill; finish mine, start road; start irrigation; attack volcano, gain workers, start mine
1125 build road, move e; discover Philosophy, start CL
1100 start cut jungle; finish irrigation, start road; H builds settlers, start harbor; Hurry LMin; Oea established, start harbour
1075 LMin builds settlers, start worker; finish road, move w L; start road; Hurry T; finish mine(2), start road, move horses
1050 cut forest, build road; cut forest, build irrigation; cut jungle (2), build road; start mine; T builds settlers, start warrior; finish road move ne H
1025; finish road (2), start start mine, move n LMin; start cut jungle
1000 U builds Lighthouse, starts worker; Hadrumetum established, start worker; start cut jungle; move mined sq from U to L; trade WM & Philosophy to Egypt for HR + 22g
 
Originally posted by TheHammer
At any rate, the Library does have at least one use. I’ll know for sure if anyone gets to Education. If that happens, I’ll have to make a race for Navigation and Magellan.

Um, how do you figure? You only get the techs from the Library if you have contact with other civs who have the tech. So, the rest of the world could have Education and Navigation and be merrily building Magellan and you won't know if you haven't made contact yet. You won't receive a message that the Library has expired until _you_ get Education.

solodar
 
Yeah your only hope for making use of the Great Library is to try to make contact with suicide galleys. Anyway the Great Library is awesome for culture which may or may not be something you want.
 
@SirPleb - congrats on an UNREAL research rate!

270 AD and you already have a university! Even with my major help from Egypt as I went high on the tech tree ignore many techs I couldn't hit that pace.

:goodjob: You have got to teach me your research tricks. I am doing well, even 10th twice in the QSC, but your results blow me out of the water!
 
4000 BC - The first question - what is the world does Southern Hemisphere mean for landmass? I suspect the Pacific islands, but don't know for sure.

After staring at the map for a bit, I decide to send the settler south to take advantage of automatic jungle clearing. I get extremely lucky with the move after seeing the new borders.

3100 BC - I am convinced that the Great Lighthouse could be the game breaker, so I drop the conventional wisdom of granary first and go with an instant settler to get a strong coastal city going.

1625 BC - Our warrior hurls himself upon a volcano, and he promotes to veteran and gets us two free workers to add 5 I already have.

1325 BC - We finally bust enough fog to last on the island to the south. It beats the galley down to almost dead, but we have landed. I already like the new land - I spot incense on the land. We are very poor for luxuries.

1275 BC - It looks like the funny names are a new GOTM standard - Bamicus Speedica is founded.

1150 BC - OUCH - although the game is called "large" - the optimal city number is for a standard map.
We find another volcano, and get 2 free workers again. I am going to settler this island shortly, so I leave them where they stand.

1000 BC - Talk about just in time contact for the QSC!
First contact with Egypt and we get The Wheel, Iron Working, Mysticism, Horseback riding and every penny the Ms. Cleo has. All this, and I didn't have to give her my world map.

975 BC - I noticed the names of the workers you can get from the Volcanoes: Creepster and Aeson :lol:
I wonder if I am out there? :crazyeye: Of course, they are promptly captured.

875 BC - We pop our first goodie hut very close to Egypt and we get angry barbs. Oh well, some things don't change.

850 BC - Is Thymiaterium another funny name? I don't remember that city on the list.
(I) We complete the Great Lighthouse - however, I am not sure if it will prove as valuable as I first thought. I have a bad feeling it might be just Egypt and me for a while.

775 BC - We pop what will probably be out last hut and find nothing but an empty village.

530 BC - GACK - 4 city Egypt is an idiot, and declares war on us. Her lame one warrior attack fails.

490 BC - The Republic of Carthage is formed.

410 BC - Egypt nails Acra, and it is auto-razed.

350 BC - Now this makes absolutely no sense - Egypt hurt us, but they will pay us $62 for a peace treaty?
Only thing I can figure is the fact that several NM were built since the declared war.

290 BC - A suicide galley succeeds in finding another land mass. [dance]
This will have to be the cutoff for my first report.


I have played this game further then reported and I am in the Middle Ages and know the more then the minimum map requirements. I cut at the above because the new civs greatly influence everything from this point forward.

While the lighthouse didn't prove as useful I first thought - it is worth it just to get the incense home. Who knows, would I have miss first contact if I took one turn longer and the suicide galley sunk?

The world as of 290BC excluding the first contact location:

LAK-276.jpg
 
I didn't start this game for a couple days after downloading and hence forgot about the archipelago map type. Started right in on bronze working and halfway through my warriors discover what I should have known, that the world is small. :P

4000BC Settler e, worker se
3950BC Carthage founded on coast, start warrior, start bronze 100%, worker road then mine BG
3700BC Warrior exploring, start another, worker n
3650BC Worker road then mine 2nd BG
3500BC Warrior done, exploring, start settler
3400BC Worker sw
3350BC Road hill, preparing way to 2nd settlement
3300BC Fog discovered of NW coast, sci at 30 to finish Bronze exactly (gain 5 gold for treasury)
3250BC Bronze done (14 turns), start Pottery at 100%, switch to Numidian, one of the warriors is home
3200BC Worker w, fortify warrior in Carthage (for happiness)
3150BC Numidian done, exploring, start settler, road forest
3000BC Worker sw

List of most advanced nations (8)... we're not on it.

2950BC Carthage grows (3), worker s, science 80% (1 turn left)
2900BC Pottery done (7 turns), start Writing 100% (net -1), road wheat 2850BC Settler done, moves w, start Numidian, Carthage size 1
2800BC Irrigate wheat, settler w,sw
2750BC Found Utica, start worker.

Palace expansion 1

2710BC Worker done irrigation, giving 5 food. Note that Utica gets 5 for it's first food supply, meaning the worker action finishes before city gathers resources, good to know. Worker nw
2670BC Worker nw
2630BC Road ivory
2590BC Carthage switch to granary, Utica grows (2)

Ivory connected

2510BC Utica finishes worker2, moves se, start settler. Utica size 1, worker1 ne (of ivory)
2470BC Carthage grows (2), worker1 clear jungle, worker2 road
2430BC Island fully explored, park warrior on north mountain, bring Numidian toward Utica
2390BC Utica grows (2), worker2 e
2350BC Worker2 se
2310BC Worker2 road forest (sw of Carthage)
2190BC Utica grows (3), Carthage fone granary, start Numidian. Worker2 n,n
2150BC Worker2 n, sci 80% (1 turn left)
2110BC Writing done (19 turns), start Map 90%, Worker2 road (jungle)
2070BC Utica finishes settler, moves ne,e,se, starts worker, back to size 1
2030BC Settler s,se
1990BC Settler s, worker1 road new grass
1950BC Carthage finishes settler, moves nw, starts Numidian, Utica grows (2), Found Leptis Magna on south tip, start Numidian, MMG, Switch Utica to granary, move Warrior from Carthage to Leptis
1910BC Worker2 s,s, Worker1 e,e,se
1870BC Fortify warrior Leptis, Worker 1,2 s,s, Carthage grows (4), MMG
1830BC Worker1,2 road ivory
1790BC Carthage send warrior to Leptis
1750BC Carthage finishes settler, moves nw, starts Numidian, Utica grows (3), Worker1 n,ne, Worker2 n,e
1725BC Settler n,nw, worker1,2 road
1700BC Found Theveste in mountain valley, start Numidian, Steal mine from Carthage (they move to hill), switch Carthage to barracks (pre-building for harbor)
1675BC Worker1 irrigate, worker2 s spying fog to the east
1650BC Worker2 road
1625BC Utica hurries granray to avoid refilling, Leptis finishes Numidian, move to Carthage, Carthage grows (3), Worker1 se, irrigate
1600BC Utica finishes granary, start Numidian, worker2 n, irrigate (done), worker1 s,irrigate, Utica MMG
1575BC Utica grows (3), MMP, worker2 s,irrigate (done), worker1 n,n, Utica switches to worker to avoid unhappy at 4 from pop rush
1550BC Worker1 road, worker2 n,nw,w
1525BC Map Making done, start Burial at 70% (4 turns), use big picture to change Carthage to harbor (would have complete barracks this turn otherwise), Leptis switch to Galley, Utica finishes worker3, moves n,e,s, starts settler, Carthage MMF, Worker2 clear jungle
1500BC Utica grows (3), worker1 sw,s, worker3 clear jungle
1475BC Carthage expands, spy volcano and fog east, worker1 clear jungle
1450BC Theveste grows (2), MMP, finish Numidian, fortify, and start warrior, Cathage grows (4), MMP, Leptis grows (2), MMP (zero growth), sci 40% (1 turn left)
1425BC Burial done (4 turns), start Math 100%, Utica grows (4), not unhappy like I thought it would be.
1400BC Leptis, Theveste MMF, Utica MMP, Worker1,2 irrigate, Worker3 s
1375BC Leptis finishes galley, starts Numidian, Theveste finishes warrior, fortifies, starts warrior, send Numidian to Carthage, load warrior in galley, move e,ne,n spying LOTS of fog, Carthage sends Numidian to galley
1350BC Utica finishes settler, moves to Carthage, starts settler, size 2, worker1,2 ne,e, mine, galley n, drop warrior east, galley nw,n, numidian leaves galley e (on hill next to volcano)
1325BC Warrior ne into fog, clear, numidian n into volcano, vet 4/4, capture Yndy and Karusa, BarbWorker(BW)1,2 s, galley s, settler e into galley galley se,s, worker3 road
1300BC Carthage finishes harbor, starts galley, take mine back from Theveste, MMP both cities, galley e, drop settler n, galley e into fog, clear (2/3), hold, warrior s into fog, clear, vet (4/4), worker1,2 nw,n, Numidian explore new island, BW1,2 sw
1275BC Warrior ne into fog, clear (3/4), galley ne into fog, sinks, settler n, BW1,2 road, worker1 road, worker2 mine, worker3 n,n, sci 90%
1250BC Found Hippo east of Carthage on isle 2, start temple, warrior ne into fog, clear (3/4), worker3 w,n, sci 80%
1225BC Worker1 mine (done), worker2 nw, clear jungle, worker3 road, BW1,2 irrigate, sci 50% (1 turn left)
1200BC Math done, start Currency 90%, Carthage grows (5), finish galley, start temple, Utica grows (4), galley e,s,se, worker1 nw, clear jungle
1175BC BW1,2 e,e, warrior fortifies in Hippo, galley e,e,ne into fog, clear, elite (5/5),
1150BC Utica finishes settler, moves w,sw, starts worker, size 2, worker3 s,w,sw, BW1,2 clear forest, galley ne into fog, clear, e,e, Switch Leptis and Theveste to galleys (more fog than I thought)
1125BC Utica grows (3), Leptis finishes galley, start warrior, galley2 w,se,se, galley1(5/5) ne,ne,n, worker3 s, settler w
1100BC Theveste finishes galley, start worker, switch Utica to settler, Found Plebus Magna on west coast of first isle, start warrior, worker3 road, galley3 ne,se,se, galley2 se,se into fog, clear, hold, galley1 n,n,ne
1075BC Leptis grows (3), MMP, galley1 ne,e,se spies yellow border, galley2 se into fog, clear, hold, galley3 se,s,se
1050BC Leptis finishes warrior, fortify, start warrior, Theveste grows (3), galley1 se,se,s contact Egypt (more in a moment), galley2 se into fog, clear, hols, galley3 s,e,e, worker1 mine, worker2 nw,nw to iron (this is after I trade for iron working), worker3 road

Egypt has iron working, wheel, warrior code, and mysticism and needs writing and math. They have wine, 13 gold, and are building Colossus and Oracle. I trade math + 2g for Iron Working + Territory map. Decide to withhold writing because they don't have iron on their home isle! They have 4 cities and completely mined and roaded isle.

1025BC Forest clear, 10 shields to Hippo, BW1,2 irrigate, worker2 road iron, galley1 s,s,s, galley2 se into fog, clear, e,e spying volcano on south isl, galley3 sw into fog, clear, vet (4/4), ne,ne, Utica grows (4)
1000BC Carthage completes temple, start galley, Theveste finishes worker, start worker, Theveste size 2, Hippo grows (2), worker4 se, mine (done), worker3 nw, worker1 nw,w, galley1 s,se,se, galley2 ne,e,e, galley3 sw,s into fog, clear, nw, spies barbs on isle.

Score: Egypt 141
Carthage 127

I have 6 cities and 5 turns left to find currency.
Here's my area at 1000BC:

GOTM17_1000bc.jpg


From this point on I keep expanding, building barracks on home isle, and start a swords man hoard and a number of galleys. After currency (which I traded for tech from Egypt), I headed for Monarchy.

170BC Discover Monarchy and revolt (I have 18 cities on 4 islands, Egypt has 8)

Researching at a fast pace now, trying to get to Navigation as quick as possible.

370AD I invade egypt on the west isle, taking Alexandria and destroying the other city (forgot name).
380AD Take Elephantine at north of main isle after losing 2 swords
390AD Egypt landed 2 charriots on my southern isle, I take them both out denying them a golden age. One is taken with a NuMerc starting my golden age.
400AD Continue working on Egypt for the next 8 or 9 turns, taking the whole main island
410AD Make peace getting Byblos (their south isle) and remaining gold. All thats left is Pi-Ramases on east isle.
540AD Take Pi-Ramases finishing off Egypt, and still have 5 turns of golden age left :)

Start sending a few galleys in all directions, Astronomy is due to be done around 650AD so no more for now. One more pic of my area at 580ad (slightly edited for suicide galleys).

GOTM17_580ad.jpg
 
Carthaginian Empire

I don't think I did so well on this QSC. I made several mistakes that I think
cost me a couple cities.

In the future, I will always keep in mind the scouting that has already been discussed. It seems that the wheat was the golden cow. (sort of)

4000 BC - Look around. Decide to move to the coast (Due East). Send Worker SE.
3950 BC - Found Carthage in Non-Bonus Grassland. Worker starts mine.
- Set Research to Pottery, Build to Warrior. Taxes at (1.9.0)
3800 BC - Worker finishes mine, starts road.
3750 BC - Carthage produceds Warrior, start another. (Warrior goes south)
3700 BC - Warrior on southern hills, will turn west.
- Worker moves north to 2nd Bonus Grassland by river.
3650 BC - Worker starts mine.
3600 BC - Warrior climbs mountain and sees flood plains.
3550 BC - Carthage produces warrior. Switch to Barracks (pre-build)
- Warriors explore.
3500 BC - Worker finishes mine, starts road.
3450 BC - Carthage expands, change science to (7.3.0)
3400 BC - Discover "Pottery", research Writing. (0.10.0) - Switch to Granary.
3350 BC - Worker to jungle 2 sw of Carthage.
3300 BC - Worker starts road on jungle. (faster access to Flood Plain)
3250 BC - Warrior scout spots Vog off north-west coast.
- Other warrior heads for Carthage. (Will get there same turn it grows)
3050 BC - Worker moves onto Flood Plain to prep city.
3000 BC - Worker starts road on Flood Plain.
2950 BC - Carthage grows to pop 3. Warrior arrives as planned to keep order.
2900 BC - Carthage completes Granary. Production set to Settler.
- Worker moves sw onto next Flood Plain.
2850 BC - Worker starts road.
2800 BC - Worker starts irrigation.
2670 BC - Carthage produces Settler. Set production to Pyramids (pre-build)
- Settler heads for Flood Plain sw of the Flood Plain with wheat.
2590 BC - Switch Carthage to worker - Found Utica (granary). 2nd warrior
fortifies in Utica. Worker moves to Flood Plain north of Utica.
2550 BC - Worker starts irrigation on FP.
2510 BC - Worker produced in Carthage, start Pyramids. (Pre-build)
- Send worker se to Bonus Grassland.
2470 BC - Start roads with both workers.
2430 BC - Force Utica's 2nd population to work on Flood Plain. (want growth)
2390 BC - Start Mine on Bonus Grassland. Other Worker goes to Plains nw of
Utica.
2310 BC - Carthage grows stabilizing at 0 GPT. (I have 1 gold at this point)
2230 BC - Discover "Writing". Start "Map Making"
- Worker starts road on plains. Other worker moves south (Carth se,s).
2150 BC - Worker movers to Grassland north of Carthage. Other moves NW.
2110 BC - Workers both start roads (Carthage 1n, Utica 2nw)
- Citizen in Utica set to entertain. (Pop 4)
2070 BC - Hurry Granary (cost of 2 population)
2030 BC - Worker to hills. Other on to Ivory forest north of Utica.
- Utica starts Settler. Set taxes to (2.7.1).
1990 BC - Worker starts road on Ivory. Worker starts mine on hills.
- Wealthiest published (Zulu, Iroquois, Egypt, English, Persia,
Russia, Rome, Greece)
1910 BC - 1 Entertainer in Utica.
1870 BC - Worker to Flood Plain (Utica n, ne)
1830 BC - Start road on Flood Plain.
1750 BC - Worker finishes mine on hills, starts road. Other moves to forest.
1725 BC - Entertainer in Carthage. Growth = 0.
1675 BC - Worker moves from hills to Forest 2 west of Carthage.
1650 BC - Both workers move to gold hill.
1625 BC - Settler in Utica. Start another. Settler moves 3 nw of Utica.
1600 BC - Build Leptis Magna (A little close to Utica, but it gets ivory into
the empire) Leptis Magna starts Barracks while I decide what I want.
1550 BC - Workers finish road on gold hill. 1 moves north to extend road. The
other moves to FP north of Utica. Taxes to (0.8.2)
1525 BC - Worker moves to plains se of Leptis Magna and starts irrigation.
1475 BC - Carthage culture expands. Can see Volcano on neighboring isle.
- Worker continues jungle road due north.
- Worker moves to jungle north of Leptis Magna.
1450 BC - Discover "Map Making". Start "Ceremonial Burial" Taxes (3.5.2)
- Utica goes into Chaos (oops, should be paying better attention)
- Workers start roads in the jungles they occupy.
1425 BC - Suddenly remember to change Carthage to "Great Lighthouse"
1400 BC - Settler in Utica. Start another. Send Settler toward spot 2nw, 2n of
Carthage.
1350 BC - Discover "Ceremonial Burial" start "Philosophy"
1325 BC - Found Theveste (2nw, 2n of Carthage).
- Worker to Plain west of Utica. Other to 2w of Theveste.
1225 BC - Settler in Utica. Start another. Settler to NW of Gold.
- Worker starts road in jungle.
1200 BC - Carthage builds "Great Lighthouse" Starts Temple.
- Found Hippo (3nw, 1w of Carthage)
1150 BC - Taxes changed to (4.4.2) - max $ to still get tech next turn.
1125 BC - Discover "Philosophy" start "Code of Laws." Taxes (1.7.2)
1100 BC - Worker sw to Plains.
1075 BC - Workers start roads.
1050 BC - Settler in Utica, start another. Send to FP west of hills in far
north of island.
1000 BC - Workers continue roads.

After 1000, my timeline is pretty sparse. Here are some high points.

310 BC - Contact Egypt. Trade for a bunch of techs.
10 AD - Have cities on the first 2 islands out ( due east and southeast)
360 AD - First wart with Egypt (start of golden age as well)
430 AD - End war. Not much change.
650 AD - 2nd war with egypt.
1040 AD - kill last egyptian (but that is a story for the next thread)

In summary. Frustrating. I constantly thought I should be doing better. I
missed another city by one turn. At the end of 1000 BC, my settler was in
plance, but had not had a chance to found.

I think I was too quick to start the Lighthouse pre-build. It left me with a
high food/low production city as my only active city. If I had waited long
enough to build another settler or a pair of Warriors, I would have had more
production. I think the warriors would have been the right way. That would
have given me 2 military police in each city, reducing the disorder issues.

The other thing I really regret was the timing of my pop-rush in Utica. I
missed the optimum time at a cost of 2, and then rushed it anyway. Costing
me turns of production due to the unhappiness. I should have waited.

I also had several times I decided that I had messed up worker movement. I
don't know if I feel rightly, but I think I made lots of mistakes.
 
Originally posted by LKendter
@SirPleb - congrats on an UNREAL research rate!

270 AD and you already have a university!
Thanks LKendter!

I learned Education at 130AD but the date is a bit misleading in what might be implied - I was drilling down the tech tree and at that date I hadn't learned The Republic, Feudalism, nor Engineering. It was a funny path to follow - I was deliberately obsoleting The Great Library before some techs which it could easily give by waiting. But there was good reason, I'm happy with following that path.

My research speed was because of a fast early buildout I think. More citizens (and having them work better tiles) -> more income -> faster research. Up to 130AD I'd gained only 7 techs without having to research them. One of those (Horseback Riding) was popped from a hut but I could also have had it freely included in a trade, the hut didn't really help. So really it all just came down to a fast build and mostly 100% research (except for intervals where a bit of luxury was necessary, and one period where I wanted money more than research.)

I think I had the fastest initial build reported so far (at least, up to 2070BC) and that's what really drove the research. I had three cities working the five flood plains. (None of them actually on the flood plains - to my thinking that would waste 1 food bonus as well as risking disease.) Those three cities could produce a settler every 2.5 turns and a worker every 5 turns, without a granary in any of them. The first step, moving the settler S to the jungle, worked out very well I thought.

It would be possible to learn Education even a fair bit earlier I think. I slowed my high speed buildup in 2070BC by setting 20K culture as a priority. If I hadn't made that choice I would have built faster from that time on, which would have meant faster science. And I lost four science turns researching Ceremonial Burial (I wanted it asap for the 20K culture goal) - could have waited to get it in trade later on. And I spent 15 turns with research at zero (not counting revolution turns), this was a time when I wanted spending money more than research. So I'd guess that Education by perhaps somewhere around 250BC would actually be possible on this map!
 
I definitely enjoyed seeing the starting location early. I was initially debating whether to found on the hill or move to the coast, but I had several questions that I couldn’t answer until I could get the actual save game. Was that coast or a lake? Was that forest or jungle SSE of the starting position (it’s hard to tell sometimes). Is that more coast on the SW side of the mountains? After more thought, I decided I would use a worker turn to look from the mountain to the S, before making any other decisions. Being Industrious, I knew I could make up the lost turn quick. I am glad I did, all those flood plains, and the wheat, helped me make my decision for me. Still a difficult one, as the coast location looked like a good shield producer, and I wanted to go for the Lighthouse, but after some calculations, I decided that I would come out ahead by building in the flood plains, then rushing a settler out to the coast. That city would be my wonder producer, focusing on Lighthouse, then Colossus.

4000 Moved worker to SW to scout, saw flood plains, stopped to evaluate the starting positions.
3900 Carthage founded on floodplain N of wheat, not a coast, but more centrally located.
3250 Carthage whips a settler, (not my usual preference, but I wanted to get Utica started early). :whipped:
3050 Utica founded on E coast, starts immediately on Great Lighthouse. (also see my first fog).
Justus_G17_3050_64.jpg

2630 Discover writing, have to start on pottery, as I have no contacts and NO HUTS!
2510 Leptis Magna founded SW of Carthage.
2470 Pottery researched, start on Mapmaking.
2070 Theveste founded SE of Carthage.
1750 Mapmaking, start Code of Laws. Switch 2 prebuilds to get galleys out.
Justus_G17_1750_64.jpg

1675 Hippo founded on NE coast.
1475 Code of Laws, start philosophy
1400 Leptis Minor founded on island to E of start.
1325 Contact with EGYPT! :egypt: They are polite, 37g, 5 cities. They have Bronze Working, Wheel, Warrior, C. Burial, (and I soon discovered they had Mysticism and HorseRiding as well).
In a series of trades I give them Alphabet, Writing, and Philosophy for all the first level techs, their gold, and world map. It looks like that is the end of the continental shelf. My score is 133 to their 120.
1250 Pop my first hut, I get Mysticism. (probably should have traded with Egypt first to force a higher tech, but I don’t want her to get mapmaking too soon, I have not settled the islands near her yet.
1225 Great Lighthouse is completed in Utica. Also, Egypt has Alexandria on southern island, but I haven’t sold map-making yet, they must have popped a hut with culture and got a settler.
Justus_G17_1200bc_Mini.jpg

1125 Trade Egypt Code of Law for Iron Working, map.
1100 Sabratha is founded on the incense island. {OK, this was my biggest mistake of the game. I knew the Lighthouse added movement and let galleys travel safely across sea tiles, but I didn’t realize it made sea trade possible. So I built this city, and another, connected to the incense and horses, built some horsemen, and WAITED 1700 YEARS to build a HARBOR!! @#$@# because I thought I had to have Astronomy to trade, and there were plenty of tiles to work without the sea tiles, and ARGH!! I only realized my mistake in 600AD, when I finally built the harbor a turn before I got Astronomy} All those wasted years, the luxury taxes, frequent disorder in Sabratha and Cadiz since they didn’t have access to my other luxuries, etc. :wallbash:
1075 Traded mapmaking for Horseback Riding.
1025 Lost 2 galleys, one to fog, one to treacherous waters (a desperate attempt to get contacts..)
1000 Republic is 10 turns away, Colossus is 15 turns. I have 7 cities, but NO improvements!
Justus_G17_1000_Mini.jpg
 
OK, after the QSC timeframe, I stopped to reassess where I was. From what I could tell, even with the lighthouse, there were no neighbors nearby to make contact with, without more suicide journeys, and it was too much of a distraction. I had only settled my homeland and the two nearest islands, it was time to focus again on expansion, so I didn’t make any more exploration attempts for about 1400 years. My focus was on switching to Republic, settling all the intervening islands, and then deciding what to do with Egypt.

950 Rusicade founded on the N coast.
850 Get a warrior from a hut on island NE of Egypt. Getting close to Republic, I whip out temples in several cities to build culture.
750 Finish Republic, start the revolution immediately.
670 Short (4 turns) Anarchy, I am now in Republic! Kick luxuries up to 20%, 30% on occasion. Research Math.
650 The start of a downhill spiral, London completes the Colossus! Utica was 4 turns away, (if only I had held off on the revolt….I ALWAYS finish wonders before revolting, but I thought I could afford it on regent….) I switch to Pyramids, which would take 24 turns. I thought about going for Hanging Gardens, but Polytheism would take 8 turns, and Monarchy would be twice that, so I would be well over by the time I could build it. I could switch to Oracle, but I don’t have many temples yet.I also thought about building the Palace in Utica, but I didn’t see that I could gain that much.
570 Hadrumentum on second island to the east, Oea on long island just west of Egypt to get the wine.
530 Egypt can now trade with me, they will give me wine for ivory +2gpt, so I take it. I still work on Oea as my own wine source for later.
470 Zimbabwe finishes the Oracle. I am getting nervous.
450 Build Cirta in center of long island near Egypt, near Iron source.
310 Construction is done, now I sell Math to Cleo for 140+3gpt, start on Currency.
290 Athens completes Pyramids, (I had 6 turns to go…). This may be a bad decision, but I switch to Great Wall (I think this might be the first time I ever built this wonder), which does trigger my golden age. I am going to take advantage of this to destroy Egypt. I rush a couple of barracks and crank out vet warriors and Spartans (still hadn’t connected Iron on my homeland), then ship them to Cirta (which is connected to its iron) where I buy a barracks. I also build Nora on that island. Unfortunately, I could have handled this better, as I had a lot of warriors waiting on cash for upgrades, I should have finished Currency and marketplaces in my cities during the first half of the GA, then used the second half for the warrior upgrades.
190 BC Warriors are starting to accumulate at Cirta.
70BC I now have 6 swords, 9 warriors, and 6 spartans on the island, with 6 more warriors on the way.
Justus_G17_70bc_Mini.jpg

30BC Declare War on Egypt (after wine pact expired, I have my harbor completed at Oea for my own wine).
10 BC Capture Pi Ramsess, S of the wine.
70BC I capture Heliopolis, with the harbor intact, on the Egyptian mainland.
110AD Golden Age ends, but I capture Memphis and Thebes!!
150AD Thebes flips back!!! (I thought there was a discussion thread somewhere about having a 3 turn ‘grace period’ without flips, but not this time. I had already moved some forces out, but since it had a barracks intact, I had 5-6 units in there to heal. THAT hurt).
170 Thebes retaken, my northern force takes Elephantine, finishing her main island. I sue for peace, leaving him the two other islands, but I do get Byblos just south of Alexandria on the island to the south.
260AD My forces are ready, I break the peace and finish Egypt off for good. (If Cleo falls in the forest, but no one is there to hear it, does it really affect my rep??).
340 Since I got no leaders (of course, I only had 3-4 elite troops the whole time), I start the Forbidden Palace myself. I am building it in Cirta, just west of Egypt. After rushing a temple and courthouse, and building the population up to 6, I can generate 7 shields per turn (of 11 possible). Started in 340AD, will take 29 turns.
370AD I finish researching Monotheism, end of comments for this thread.

Justus_G17_370ad_Mini.jpg
 
Originally posted by TheHammer
So it seems obvious that Carthage should move to the jungle to the south and become a settler pump.

Yes, as obvious as irrigating the deer in GOTM16. I guess I'll fall into could be improved catagory again this month as I failed to see the value of moving south to clear the jungle and grab the wheat.

By founding at the starting point, I gained 1 extra turn of production which I lost twenty turns later by missing the growth turn and rioting.

I did end up with three cities sharing the flood plains but only two of them could reach the wheat. (Carthage was 1 move south away from the wheat.:) )

In trying to improve the sheilds in some cities for wonder building I've had to micromanage tiles from one end of the island to the other.

RE: Flipping,

I took three and a half wars to eliminate Egypt and never lost a city to a flip. The first city I took was the one on the tiny island. Then peace. Then I took their Iron City on the Eastern island. Then peace. Then I took all but Thebes. Peace for polytheism and gold. She says get out
Originally posted by Justus II
(If Cleo falls in the forest, but no one is there to hear it, does it really affect my rep??)
:hammer:Thebes falls and Cleo with it.

I had delayed war originally because the advisor said we were in awe of Egyptian culture. I took the time to build temples and librarys everywhere. This helped prevent flipping. I also figured building the culture early would be better than as an afterthought because of the age doubling.
 
Minor comment. Since everybody seems to rant on the ‘unhealthy’ number of cities that I built on the starting island I have to admit that there were several too many and before 10 AD I disbanded three of them to keep a healthier 11.
 
Yndy, I built 17 cities in the starting island, 50 cities in the starting archipelago. :p
 
With my 9 cities on the starting island, I be I have a lot more aquaducts than Bremp! 17 cities, holy cow. How many worker turns did you save auto clearing jungle? Do you even build workers or just let your starting grunt built the 5 of 6 roads you need to finish connecting your urban sprawl?:lol:
 
Originally posted by Bremp
Yndy, I built 17 cities in the starting island, 50 cities in the starting archipelago. :p

You guys are making my cows sad.:sad:;)
 
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