*Spoiler1* Gotm23-Arabs Full World Map+All contacts+Middle Age

[SirPleb]

Originally posted by Yoshimune
Why are all your city names different from mine? Did they change spellings in different versions? (My capital is Mecca, not Makkah).

I think that you are probably using PTW and getting city names courtesy of Firaxis, vs. the other names which are courtesy of Cracker in the customized Civ 1.29 setup.

I believe that Cracker's names are (as always) carefully chosen, and intended to trigger curiousity. So if he has succeeded with you then I won't attempt to give it a quick fix (if you're really curious then a quick fix shouldn't be enough), instead I suggest doing a net search on "Makkah Mecca". The usenet (http://groups.google.com) might be as interesting on this particular search as web sites

 

[Dianthus]

Originally posted by SirPleb
I think that you are probably using PTW and getting city names courtesy of Firaxis, vs. the other names which are courtesy of Cracker in the customized Civ 1.29 setup.

Hmm, I was using and got Makkah as my 1st name. Must be something else!

 

[Yndy]

I just got to 1000BC and have been in the MA since 1275BC. No QSC for me, I barely managed to get this far without writing my moves. I started the game by re-reading Aeson’s ‘Expansionist
Chariot Gambit with ICS topping

The ICS part works but expansion only revealed a hut with barbs nearby. I took a detour and I got near the hut just in time to see an Indian warrior open it. Forgot to check what they received.

The Chariot part did not work either because I couldn’t get hook up horses so far. My four scouts managed to miss the tiles around the horse in the east and Osman was already settled next to it when I got the world map.

I researched the Wheel, to secure horses but in vain. Instead I traded it. I started on HBR at min sci and turned of tech one turn before I got it. I bought/traded most techs and thus helped the AI go straight to the Middle Ages.

I have 11 cities and already had one razed by the Spanish. I have everybody in war with everybody over here in order to slow research and to weaken the AI but this sometimes hurts me .

 

[SirPleb]

Originally posted by Dianthus
Hmm, I was using and got Makkah as my 1st name. Must be something else!

Hmm indeed I wonder what gives here? Does anyone have another theory? Seems we badly need one, mine didn't last long

 

[Offa]

Originally posted by Yoshimune
Woah, that's weird. Why are all your city names different from mine? Did they change spellings in different versions? (My capital is Mecca, not Makkah). I also built the same number of cities as you and had some completely different names.

These were all the default names in my game ( PTW 1.21). I presumed Makkah is the same as Mecca.

 

[Yoshimune]

Originally posted by Offa

These were all the default names in my game ( PTW 1.21). I presumed Makkah is the same as Mecca.

Yes, Makkah is an alternate spelling of Mecca (the usenets that SirPleb pointed me to were full of discussions about Saudi Arabia sending requests to English-speaking governments about officially changing the spelling). What country version are you playing with, Offa? Mine's the North America version (PTW 1.27), and I'm assuming the same for SirPleb since his screenshot had the same city names as mine.

Though I don't know why Firaxis would include Riyadh for one country and not for another; it's a pretty significant city (let alone making the city names different).

edit: noticed SirPleb is from Canada, didn't want to ruffle any feathers.

 

[Offa]

Originally posted by Yoshimune


What country version are you playing with, Offa? Mine's the North America version (PTW 1.27), and I'm assuming the same for SirPleb since his screenshot had the same city names as mine.

I am in England so use the UK/europe version (ptw 1.21)

 

[RRnut]

PTW 1.27 Open

This is the second GOTM that I am doing. after reading all the spoiler threads last month I decided to post my game this time.

my research path -- i did what many people did and researched Mycistism at max and then Polytheism and Monarchy at min. Both 40 turns sci came up first. I bought and traded for all other Ancient age techs. got into the middle ages in 510 BC.

My settling path -- i did a rather typical loose builod, with very little overlap. my reasoning was that good tiles were few and rather far between, so I founded a decent city at every good site. by the 1000 BC I had 7 cities and two settlers on the way. the lack of a decent settelr factory really hampered my settling. eventually both Makkah and Madinah, founded on the flood plains near the lake got producing settlers, but it took basically until the end of the ancient age to get a decent amount of land.

my warring -- had one war during the ancient age. first was from Rome's demanding contact with the french in 925 BC. off course I refused, and they went to war. I signed an alliance with the Ottomans, which lasted until 630 BC when they made peace. Then I signed peace in 630 BC.

Re: Barbarians. I was not bothered by them alot until the middle ages. then on one turn in sight of my units i counted 37 barbarians. most of them came from the southern desert where nobody had settled yet. incidentally, I agree that playing on predator might have been easier, because the extra AI units would have taken care of the barb camps before they even bloomed. I lost about 750 gold to barbarians, because I had over 1000 due to min sci. research. incedentally over 700 of that was from one city which was a bit odd.

other notes - i saw the first unescorted AI settler that I had ever seen before. it was Carthaginian, and for some reason the escort got delayed. the settler stopped after stepping into my territory and then waited a turn for its escort.

RRnut

P.S. loved the map. is there any way that I can acess the .bix file used to make the GOTMs so that I can try a random dry map with the extra resources??

P.P.S. my city names were all the modified ones, and I was using PTW.

 

[dojoboy]

Originally posted by RRnut
I lost about 750 gold to barbarians, because I had over 1000 due to min sci. research. incedentally over 700 of that was from one city which was a bit odd.

Ouch! Was there not a chance to buy a tech from another civ? Or, did you just rather lose it than benefit another civ? I did give France some sweet deals for some key techs, because they are so far away. Since then, I've noticed their borders have increased. I may have to deal w/ this monster later.

 

[cracker]

Although the PTW software comes with its own name list, I try to remember to update the PTW version to have the same leaders and city names as the Civ3v1.29 version just to be consistent.

When I first uploaded the game version there was a period of about 4 to 6 hours where the name lists did not match, so the eager PTW beavers may not have gained the full benefit of the more enlightened city name list.

To be culturally astute, we attempted the use the spellings of city names as defined by the Saudi government since that would seem to be the most "approved" and correct version of the city names.

It sort of surprised me that PTW was less than a year old and yet many of the city names for the Arabs did not match with the historic timeline for that civilization.

The history of the Arab civilization truly seems to have four distinct periods in its life cycle and I am not too sure that the way Firaxis has their UU and traits defined would do anything to simulate either the second of fourth period of Arab History which we could look to as being the great and powerful periods that were not either perhistorically insignificant or overpowered by the civil and military organizations of the Ottoman empire.

 

[ltccone]

I used my treasure chests to jump start a granary in Mecca (not Makkah in my game). The first tech i worked on the was wheel, so I could locate horses early. considering how far away they were, I was a good thing. As soon as I could I built a city near them before the Ottomans grabbed it.

The Ottomans were the first civ I met, followed by the Persians. It wasn't long before I knew everyone. It was ironic that I met Carthage last, and they were right next door...

I was disappointed in the lack of "goody huts." I only found one, which yielded gold.

I managed to keep tech parity through trades, but I was never the tech leader, France was.

I spent the ancient age at peace with everyone. I built plenty of horsemen to upgrade to Ansar Warriors in the MAs. They earned their keep keeping barbarians at bay and tracking down their camps.

I didn't even start any wonders. I built few improvements other than cheap temples and barracks. I just built cities and horsemen while trying to figure out who my first victim would be...

There was only one war in the ancient age, and it was a strange one. About half way through the ancient age Zulus started to wander through my territory. I went into defence mode waiting to see what was going to happen. To my surprise they went into Ottoman territory. Well, I thought the Ottomans are in for it. To my surprise that didn't happen. They attacked Rome! This wierd war lasted past the ancient age.

 

[rabies]

1.21f

Before the first turn, my strategy for this game was going to be get to Monarchy as fast as possible, then go out on the attack. Swordsmen (upgraded from warriors) first (if Iron was available), then Ansar Warriors. I fully plan to win via Domination.

Timeline of Notable events:
4000 BC - Moved the scout S then W to start. Thus, I missed the Floodplains at first. Moved the worker E and worked that tile right away. Settled on the start. Makkah would eventually go on to produce both a granary and barracks after first producing 3 more scouts (4 total). It would then build 2 vet warriors and a settler every 8 turns. I would establish another city with a granary to take advantage of the floodplains and get another settler factory going. Overall, my settler production stunk in the QSC timeframe.

I also decided to deliberately NOT use RCP, as I have heard the developers have 'fixed' it in conquest. Clearly, they don't think it is in the spirit of the game, so I have decided to abandon it. I don't want to get accustomed to something that will not be there in the future.

3600 BC - Contact with Persia.
3400 BC - Contact with Carthage. Warrior Code (trade)
3250 BC - Contact with Ottomans.
3100 BC - Contact with France.
3050 BC - Contact with Zululand and Spain.
2950 BC - Myst (self), Masonry, Alph and BW (trade).
2900 BC - Contact with Egypt.
2630 BC - Contact with India.
2510 BC - Contact with Rome. - Full contact established. Writing, Iron Working (trade)
1725 BC - Mathematics, Horseback Riding, Map Making (via Trade). Full starting landmass visibility established.
1475 BC - Polytheism (self research)
1400 BC - France declares war (demanded Poly)
1375 BC - Rome declares war (demanded Poly)
1325 BC - Philosophy, Code of Laws (trade)
1100 BC - Construction, Currency, Literature (trade) - Arabs enter Middle Ages
1025 BC - French build Oracle in Paris

Exciting huh? I think this is the fastest I entered the middle ages.

QSC Stats
As of 1000 BC, I had the following:
9 Cities - 17 Total population points. 31 Gold
2 Luxuries hooked (wool, spice). No Iron or Horses hooked.
1 Settler, 5 Workers, 4 Slaves, 1 Scout, 13 Warriors, 2 Archers
2 Granaries, 1 Temple, 2 Barracks
Embassies with all
All Ancient Age techs except Monarchy (in 6) and Republic. No middle age techs.
Score 212, 2nd to last place.

On scouting and huts
I deliberately build 3 additional scouts from the start..even though this put me at -1 gpt for quite a number of turns. I did this because I saw we were square in the middle of the map, so I had no idea which direction would be most fruitful in terms of contacts. I also wanted to capitalize on Huts. You can see the direction the scouts took below.

Ironically, I would end up popping not 1 single hut. I did see one hut near Indian lands, but the scout was killed by a barb before he could pop it. This is one of the reasons I hate the expansionist trait - it is very hit or miss. I see other posts here with free cities and settlers!

Two other scouts would eventually be done in by French warriors. I would, however, make at least some good use of the scouts. All the scouting I did made my world map very, very valuable by the time map making came along. Using prudent trading, I was able to acquire 3 techs, the full world map, and left everybody broke (netted about 200 gold) in 1725 BC when everybody else got Map making.

On Barbs
They were not as bad as I had feared. I deliberately build a couple archers to ward any off, and always escorted my settlers with warriors. In the end, I lost 180 gold and 1 scout to barbs. I feel maybe predator players had an advantage here as there were swarms of AI units on my borders dealing with the barbs for me.

On research
As stated above, I wanted Monarchy asap. I went full research on Myst, 40 turn on poly and full on Monarchy (6 turns left as of 1000 BC). I got lucky in that both techs I researched I was first to. This made it easy for me to keep up in tech. I did go and buy Construction for 240 gold in 1100AD. I noticed the AI were not uniform in tech. For that 240 gold, I was able to get Construction, Currency and Literature to put me in the middle ages.

On Foreign Affairs
I had three extortion attempts. First was the Ottomans, who backed down. They have been at war as long as I have had and embassy with them (1625BC). Rome and France then tried to extort me for Polytheism and declared war with me when I told them to shove off. I have lost 2 scouts and a warrior at the hands of French warriors. I have killed about 3 of her units. This is the first time I have lost ANY units in the QSC timeframe. I am still at war with both of them.
I have managed to get Persia involved vs the French. I could not get Spain against France at all. Egypt seems to be the only one producing culture at this point. I will be very surprised if Rome does NOT become powerful in anybody's game. His lands practically made me drool. I have not made up my mind yet, but I may build my 2nd core there. Too bad it is so far away from everything else. Ansar warriors built there would have to travel quite a distance to get to the front lines.

On Wonders
Only 1 build by France so far. I am rather surprised and confused that NOBODY is building the Pyramids. What is going on here? I decided myself to not build any wonders...like Sir Pleb. In fact, I see a couple similarities between my game and Sir Pleb...large city spacing, 4 scouts, nearly identical barb losses. Maybe I am on the right track?

The world at 1000 BC

 

[Offa]

Originally posted by Txurce
Great start, Offa. What units did you use to attack the Persians?

Thanks for your interest. I used horsemen and a unit that I dare not mention, as it might not be allowed in this thread. It had the same stats as the Persian immortal so it seemed appropriate for them, esp as the Persians hadn't hooked up any iron for themselves.

I see that you persuaded the AI into a lot of early wars. I was too mean to pay them for early wars, although I that was probably wrong of me. I also gave someone a contact for something (I can't remember what) and, as a result of this, all the AI soon knew one another and caught up on tech, so that was definitely a mistake.

I thought that as the AI was so reluctant to venture out and meet one another it would be pointless to get them at war with one another, as they would inflict so little damage on their rivals. However, the Romans declared war against me for some reason (refused tribute or the like) shortly after the QSC and did send a few troops on a long and fruitless trek to perish at my border, proving that the AI would have engaged at least a few units on warfare.

I ignored the roman war for a while as it seemed so unlikely to damage me and I certainly couldn't spare troops to send to Rome. Eventually after the Roman troops showed up I allied with the Ottomans against them. I felt able to do this as I had managed to pinch the horses in the SE with a quick temple, rushed in 975bc as soon as I switched to Monarchy in 1000bc. It seemed a big risk that the Romans would steamroller straight through the Ottomans, especially given the lovely start position the Romans had. Initially I had planned to leave the Romans alone as they seemed likely to be pretty strong.

One thing in my game was that the Indians were very weak despite starting in what looked to be a great spot. Presumably they had a tough time with barbs.

The only other thing of note that happened to me in the Ancient Era was that I built the FP in Baghdad (4 squares to the E of Makkah). This was complete in 410 bc.

I am not sure when I entered the Middle ages, as I have no save games from then, but it must have been about 500bc. The AI were very slow in research in my game, so didn't help me much. I had to research currency all by myself, despite having a monopoly on Monarchy, which I would gladly have traded to get necessary techs for the middle age. Someone else discovered construction so I bought this. I was very keen to get access to our UU which sounded very strong.

 

[rabies]

Originally posted by Gryphon
PTW 1.27 Open class

This is my first GOTM, as well as my first post to CFC – so hello to everyone!

I don't think I saw anybody else say this..so...
Welcome aboard Gryphon! You'll find playing CIV much more fun when you don't reload. There has already been two circumstances in GOTM23 where I wish I could have (civil disorder due to my stupidity and not paying attention). The game is definately much better when you can't use the 'reload' function to make everything go your way.

 

[dales]

I founded Makkah directly south of the goats, and proceeded to make a 4.5 RCP pattern (or, at least, as close to a ring as possible). I generally fret about keeping up in technology and go for the Great Library, but this time I decided to instead go up the polytheism branch. The early game was uneventful, except for getting a settler from a hut and founding Diriyah near the incense to the southeast, heading towards Rome.

I was very upset when I found that one of my neighbors was Spain. For some reason, my game crashes about 2/3 of the time the Diplomacy dialog opens with them (and I have reinstalled everything to no avail) [Update: I found a solution. Thanks]. But that's neither here nor there. I was going for Domination, and choosing them as my first target was tempting but not really what I wanted to do. I did not want my first target to have a strong defensive UU, nor did I want to face an enemy with a golden age. That ruled out neighbors neocarthage, Egypt and Persia. The Ottomans drew my attention, especially since I did not really want to face their UU later.

I declared war, took Uskudar immediately (horses!). This is the state of the world at the start of the fall of the Ottoman empire, right after Uskudar fell.

I bribed India and Zulu to join the fight. I wanted to march all the way over to the sea and wipe them out, and had some initial success. I took Sogut and Izmit. I then ran into some bad luck and bogged down.

I also completed Polytheism and traded that to give me all the prerequisites for The Republic, and needing only Construction and Currency (which no one had) to get to the next age. I decided to go for the Republic, at the highest research level I could afford, while rebuilding my military and trying to hold my gains. Although I don’t remember doing this, apparently I brought the Romans into an alliance against the Ottomans too. This triggered a Roman Golden Age.

When I got The Republic, I traded it to the Romans, hoping to lure them into wasting several turns of their Golden Age in anarchy. They took the bait. I also made deals with other civs, netting all of the remaining ancient age techs. In 170BC, the Arabs entered the Middle Ages.

(Apologies for munging up what happened earlier. I was recreating the timeline from memory because a zip file with the saves vanished, and apparently I remembered some things wrong. I had planned to attack Rome while they were in anarchy, but apparently I did it as above, as I found my 170BC save. So, this is more accurate. The rest of the game I have tons of saves for)


Here is the state of the world in 170BC, at the dawn of the middle age:

 

[RRnut]

Dojoboy,

I bought construction and currency which got me into the middle ages the turn after they all appearred. The only other tech that I could have bought was Monarchy, from France, which I had a 40 turn sci on in 4 turns. so I didn't buy that -- at second, I beleive -- because that was just giving too much money to my foes.

RRnut

 

[Snaga]

1.21

My strategy for this GOTM was to take the direct approach: research Monarchy, then Chivalry, and then sweep the board with Ansars.

I settled Makkah SE of the starting location, to take advantage of the flood plains, after moving the scout south twice. Was wary of barbarians after struggling with them as the Vikings, so built 2 warriors, then a granary. I didn't build a 2nd scout until much later, after I had most of the world map.

My scout took a route south to start with, then followed the coast east, eventually meeting the Ottomans in 3200 and the Romans in 3100. In 2230 the Persians initiated contact with us via the Ottomans. Through a series of trades I picked up several advances, including writing, and all remaining contacts plus a tidy gold profit.

I took the Mysticism, Polytheism, Monarchy research path, with Polytheism researched at minimum, in order to build up a healthy cash surplus for upgrades. I was counting on Polytheism to catch up with trades, but in 1575 Map Making became affordable, so in another series of deals I caught up on all advances and stripped all but Rome of their remaining funds. When I got Polytheism in 1525 there was nothing of value left to trade it for, but it meant I could afford to research Monarchy at 100%, without worrying about being beaten to it.

Makkah was quickly set up as a 4-turn settler factory. I didn't get around to mining the goats during the ancient age, but was quite happy having Makkah oscillate 5 - 7, instead of 4 - 6 as the extra citizen provided more science/gold. I think I needed to mine one of the plains to get enough shields on growth. Madinah was positioned on the river to the south and was used as a size 6 - 7 2 turn worker factory

The remaining central towns ended up fitting nicely into a 4/4.5 RCP build. Later I started placing some towns on a 8/8.5 ring. I didn't use RCP in GOTM22 as the terrain didn't seem to suit it, and I had also been unimpressed with its results in GOTM21. I now realise it was screwed up then because of a palace move. In this game I therefore decided to keep my initial core intact and not build the Forbidden Palace. This decision was also influenced by the observation that this game could probably be ended before a 2nd core would have time to make much of an impact.

I had demands from Rome in 1575, which I paid and France in 1225, which I refused without repurcussions. I didn't see a goodie hut let alone pop one. I missed out on the horses to the east, so took the ones to the south instead. I did manage to plant a city next to 3 wool to the SW, which Carthage built 2 cities near to, but didn't expand their culture to claim.

In 1025 I completed researching Monarchy, and traded this for Construction and Currency to join France and the Ottomans in the Middle Ages. I suspect few Open players will get the chance to trade these advances so early, and so in this sense Predator is an advantage. On the other hand I think under Open it may be possible on this map to take over the world with horsemen and swordsmen, and it will be interesting to see if anyone tries this approach. Under Predator I think Ansar Warriors are needed.

Anyway I formed a Monarchy government in 1000BC. My QSC stats are:
10 cities, 31 citizens, all ancient techs apart from The Republic
1 settler, 13 workers, 2 slaves, 1 scout, 16 warriors, 1 archer
2 granaries, 2 barracks, 4 temples
1285g

There have already been some very similar city layouts from this game, so here is mine to add to the pile. The inner core placements are identical to Offa's. I have gone for more citizens and fewer towns:

.

 

[dojoboy]

Originally posted by RRnut
Dojoboy,

I bought construction and currency which got me into the middle ages the turn after they all appearred. The only other tech that I could have bought was Monarchy, from France, which I had a 40 turn sci on in 4 turns. so I didn't buy that -- at second, I beleive -- because that was just giving too much money to my foes.

RRnut

Right. Makes sense.

 

[Yndy]

I think Predator class had fewer goody huts. So far only SirPleb reported popping the only one he saw.

The players from other classes reported all those settlers and techs.

Edit: Having second thoughts. Probably it was due to the fact that the AI had more starting units.

 

[Kuningas]

1.14

Contacts

3800 BC Persians
3600 BC Spain
3100 BC France
3000 BC Indians, Carthage
2750 BC Ottomans
2670 BC Egypts
2590 BC Zulus
2150 BC Rome

Only 1 hut popped warrior. Which later contacted Indians.
Carthage, Ottomans, Egypts, Rome found Arabs.

Research
full research funding

3950 BC The wheel
3000 BC Indians trade: The Wheel for Mysticism
3000 BC Polytheism
1830 BC Monarchy
1250 BC Currency
1050 BC After few trade. Arabs advanced to the Middle Ages.

QSC

Capital SE from the start.
12 cities 32 pop, 17 happy. RCP 5/5.5
6 workers, 2 slaves, 2 settler, 7 warriors, 1 scout
4 Temples, 3 Granaries, 2 Barracks
2 four turn Settler factories
1 two turn worker factory

Other notes

Rome declared war to Arabs
Arabs - Ottomans Military alliance vs Rome
Arabs - Egypts Military alliance vs Rome
Arabs - Carthage Military alliance vs Rome
Rome - Spain Military alliance vs Ottomans
Rome - Spain Military alliance vs Arabs
Arabs - Persians Military alliance vs Spain

Military alliances keeped AI busy not a single attack to Arabs territory.
1000BC-950BC about 50-60 Skraeling horsemans appiered to the south. I lost only 40 gold and productions in two towns.


Thanks to Qitai I was able to made great domination victory but that in the spoiler 2.

EDIT: Screenshot added