ltccone
Prince
If you look at the map again you will see Rome has SP in a mountain near the city of Rome, and horses to the south of Rome. So it is no surprise they got cavalry.
*Spoiler2* Gotm23-Arabs - End of Middle Ages or Submit
- Thread starter cracker
- Start date
If you look at the map again you will see Rome has SP in a mountain near the city of Rome, and horses to the south of Rome. So it is no surprise they got cavalry.
![[civ3mac]](/images/smilies/macciv3.gif "Mac Civ3 Icon [civ3mac]")
1.29First post is here. (Ancient Age 4000BC - 975BC)
Playing with the big boys was great fun. The cataphract is a great unit, combined w religious for cheap temple hurrying, it is ideally suited for conquest/domination.
We begin the Middle Ages 975BC by forming a military alliance w France and Persia vs. Spain.
510BC Rome tries to extort 68g and declares war when we tell them to shove it. Ottomans give(!) wm, 4g for ma vs. Rome. Let them fight, our troops move towards Persia.
450BC we attack Persia; as noted before, they have no immortals.
210BC we destroy the Persians. Trading for feudalism and monotheism costing us 278g.
190BC a Persian war generated Great Leader builds us Sun Tzu's, IMHO the most important wonder for those on the war trip.
Golden Age starts, because we conquered Oracle and Colossus from Persia. We build horsemen and accumulate wealth waiting for chivalry.
90BC we declare war on Ottomans to keep our horsemen trained. (War vs. Rome still going on, but ma expired. They still have no legionaries.)
In 90AD we start researching chivalry, because the AIs seem to not do it. An error, because once we have it in 230BC, the AIs have it also.
110AD Ottomans are down to 2 small towns and give engineering for peace.
230AD we discover chivalry, upgrade the first 20 horsemen, and really enjoy unleashing cataphracts against the Romans. We capture Rome w The Pyramids in 270AD.
330AD we create Great Leader Mu'awiya (to build Sun Tzu's) and give peace to the last Roman city for gunpowder, republic (never use it, stay monarchy), theology. They give 12 gpt in addition. How can they do this w a pop 1 desert city?
By now, we are at war w neoC and in 400BC we declare war on the Zulu to pick up a couple of settler/guard pairs. Ally w France, Egypt. Great Leader Hind w build Forbidden Palace in Carthage (430AD). Zulus are destroyed by France in 570AD, but we have the majority of their land.
In 500AD we destroy the Spanish and Ottomans, in 530 the Romans.
Between 580AD and 630AD we capture the continental Egyptian territories, getting education, chemistry for peace.
In 650AD we declare war on India and achieve domination 720AD. It was a close call, because France had cavalry since at least 540AD and India built 2 cavs before we pillaged their horses.
Firaxis score is 7405.
PS: In the end we built some cities to replace destroyed ones, especially Sirplebidah and Alexmanistan.
ptw 1.21 open
I had a start that I was pretty happy with but waited a fair bit too long to go to war, not attacking the persians until 230bc. Just as I finished them off, the Ottomans attacked me and forced me into a battle at 2 fronts. I played pretty aggressively from then on.
My research was relatively slow and I didn't get any Ansars until 280ad. I made lots of them after this though.
Desperate luck with great leaders. I got one in 390ad, used to rush palace in Paris, and one more 3 turns before the end (rushed pointless sistine chapel in empire with no cathedrals).
I built Sun Tze by hand which took until 170ad. I wasted a lot of money researching invention and then hand built Leo in 530ad, far too late to help.
Very heavy casualties after the Spanish war as ansars attacked a lot of pikes. The Cathaginians were mostly fortified in hills and took a lot of killing.
I went for conquest, as not going for medals.
wars fought:
230bc-50bc Persia
30bc-190ad Ottoman
50bc-290ad Spain
270-470 Rome
370-510 France
400-520 Egypt
520-590 Zulu
550-610 India
510ish-570 Persia remnant
610-620 Egypt remnant
My map:
I had a start that I was pretty happy with but waited a fair bit too long to go to war, not attacking the persians until 230bc. Just as I finished them off, the Ottomans attacked me and forced me into a battle at 2 fronts. I played pretty aggressively from then on.
My research was relatively slow and I didn't get any Ansars until 280ad. I made lots of them after this though.
Desperate luck with great leaders. I got one in 390ad, used to rush palace in Paris, and one more 3 turns before the end (rushed pointless sistine chapel in empire with no cathedrals).
I built Sun Tze by hand which took until 170ad. I wasted a lot of money researching invention and then hand built Leo in 530ad, far too late to help.
Very heavy casualties after the Spanish war as ansars attacked a lot of pikes. The Cathaginians were mostly fortified in hills and took a lot of killing.
I went for conquest, as not going for medals.
wars fought:
230bc-50bc Persia
30bc-190ad Ottoman
50bc-290ad Spain
270-470 Rome
370-510 France
400-520 Egypt
520-590 Zulu
550-610 India
510ish-570 Persia remnant
610-620 Egypt remnant
My map:
dojoboy
Tsalagi
Open 1.29
*Arabia DoW Ottomans in 350 BC, peace signed (received 3 techs in deal) in 460 AD after capturing five cities; purchase Chivalry from France for 5 gpt & 259g.
400 AD
*610 AD - DoW on Carthage; entered GA; earned first Great Leader (create army); Capture Great Library in Utica and Oracle in Carthage; reach tech parity (5 techs) on next turn.
*760 AD - Carthage destroyed -> okay, so the Romans did it about 900 years faster than Arabia .
*810 AD - Egypt DoW on Arabia; sign alliance w/ Spain v. Egypt; GL earned but killed in battle ; finally establish embassis w/ all civs and create ttrade deals to maintain their neutrality, or perhaps enter conflict on Arabias side; Ottomans sign alliance w/ Egypt (Arabia captured Iznik); I do sign peace deal w/ the Ottmans ASAP to focus on Egypt; sign peace deal w/ Egypt after alliance w/ Spain expires (captured 9 Egyptian cities, including Memphis w/ HG & Colossus); would later lose Memphiis & 2 other captured Egyptian cities to culture flip.
1030 AD
*1090 AD - Decide to assimilate remainder of the Ottoman cities; this war sees the deployment of cavalry.
1180 AD
*1200 AD - Ottomans destroyed.
*Entered the Industrial Age in 1210 AD.
Observations: My two main concerns: (1) five fronts to fight on if my diplmatic skills falter and (2) falling beind in tech, too few tech buildings up and running. Much has happened since entering the Industrial Age. At the end of the Middle Ages, the French and Romans are my greatest concerns. Both are smaller than I but each has a massive army to wield. Main focus at this stage is to shore up my infrastructure and bolster my fronts.
The Cataphract is a perfectly timed UU. I much prefer UUs in the Middle Ages than any other, because I'm usually not ready to war seriously until then. Persia really hasn't seemed like the Civ I'm use to seeing. France and Rome seem to be doing really well. I'm partly to blame for France's growth - gave them some sweet deals for techs. I don't believe India, Zululand, Persia, or Egypt will become players in the future, unless they get some outside help. My immediate plans are to marginalize France & Rome by trying to find a way to pit them against one another. France looks like they're setting themselves up for tech superiority, while Rome is definitely looking to expand their empire by force, much like myself.
1.29*Arabia DoW Ottomans in 350 BC, peace signed (received 3 techs in deal) in 460 AD after capturing five cities; purchase Chivalry from France for 5 gpt & 259g.
400 AD
*610 AD - DoW on Carthage; entered GA; earned first Great Leader (create army); Capture Great Library in Utica and Oracle in Carthage; reach tech parity (5 techs) on next turn.
*760 AD - Carthage destroyed -> okay, so the Romans did it about 900 years faster than Arabia .
*810 AD - Egypt DoW on Arabia; sign alliance w/ Spain v. Egypt; GL earned but killed in battle
; finally establish embassis w/ all civs and create ttrade deals to maintain their neutrality, or perhaps enter conflict on Arabias side; Ottomans sign alliance w/ Egypt (Arabia captured Iznik); I do sign peace deal w/ the Ottmans ASAP to focus on Egypt; sign peace deal w/ Egypt after alliance w/ Spain expires (captured 9 Egyptian cities, including Memphis w/ HG & Colossus); would later lose Memphiis & 2 other captured Egyptian cities to culture flip.1030 AD
*1090 AD - Decide to assimilate remainder of the Ottoman cities; this war sees the deployment of cavalry.
1180 AD
*1200 AD - Ottomans destroyed.
*Entered the Industrial Age in 1210 AD.
Observations: My two main concerns: (1) five fronts to fight on if my diplmatic skills falter and (2) falling beind in tech, too few tech buildings up and running. Much has happened since entering the Industrial Age. At the end of the Middle Ages, the French and Romans are my greatest concerns. Both are smaller than I but each has a massive army to wield. Main focus at this stage is to shore up my infrastructure and bolster my fronts.
The Cataphract is a perfectly timed UU. I much prefer UUs in the Middle Ages than any other, because I'm usually not ready to war seriously until then. Persia really hasn't seemed like the Civ I'm use to seeing. France and Rome seem to be doing really well. I'm partly to blame for France's growth - gave them some sweet deals for techs. I don't believe India, Zululand, Persia, or Egypt will become players in the future, unless they get some outside help. My immediate plans are to marginalize France & Rome by trying to find a way to pit them against one another. France looks like they're setting themselves up for tech superiority, while Rome is definitely looking to expand their empire by force, much like myself.
Ancient Age summary
Researched Monotheism first, as ai rivals are almost certain to pick Feudalism. At 100% research discovered Monotheism in 650BC after 15 turns. Had to wait 1 turn for the first AI to discover Feudalism, which I trade for immediately.
Several wonders are completed around this time:
1050 Paris builds Oracle
900 Rome complete The Pyramids
875 Zimbabwe builds the Great Wall
750 Persepolis builds the Great Library and Sogut builds the Hanging Gardens
730 Thebes builds the Colossus
390 Lyons builds the Great Lighthouse
I decide Sogut and Rome would make nice prizes. In 650BC I upgrade 25 warriors to swordsmen, spending almost all my gold. The next turn with the advent of Feudalism I have only enough gold to upgrade a handful to Azaps. Delay my research for a couple of turns to earn a little gold for further Azap upgrades. With about 1/2 upgraded I decide I have enough force to make it to Rome, and switch back to researching Chivalry as fast as I can afford - at about 70% research. In hindsight I should have concentrated on my primary goal, and built fewer warriors so that I could research Chivalry several turns faster, and upgrade horsemen earlier.
Ottomans crumble fairly easily. Sogut falls in 490AD, gaining us a double happiness hit with incense and the Hanging Gardens. In 410BC accept peace with Ottomans for a couple of their cities. They have built disconnected towns in the desert to our South and it would take me too far out of my way to destroy them at the moment.
Reach Roman borders with little more than a dozen swordsmen and azaps in 390AD. Decide my only chance to take Rome is through a right of passage. I haven't tried this technique before, but since I am unconcerned with my reputation in this game I use it mercilessly. Rome, Hispalis, Cumae and Lutetia all fall to our treacherous surprise attack in 330AD.
Meanwhile I discover Chivalry in 370AD, can only afford to upgrade 2 of 14 horseman this turn. Trigger Golden Age in 330AD with first Ansar victory. Party time.
Send the initial few Ansars to help mop up Rome. Build horsemen, and upgrade to ansars each turn by connecting and disconnecting iron (9 workers and a warrior playing Groundhog Day on a mountain top.) Average production of around 6 Ansars a turn, mostly upgraded, but the odd one built, as earning about 250gpt.
Start a series of wars, generally moving from East to West:
270BC War on Persia
250BC Capture Perseopolis and the Great Library
210BC Persia eliminated, war with France and Carthaginians
170BC War on India
130BC Romans finally eliminated
110BC War on Ottomans
90BC War on Egypt
70BC Ottomans eliminated, War on Spain
50BC Carthage eliminated
10BC War on Zulus, My 1 and only Great Leader, Uthman rushes Sun Tzu's in Bangalore
50AD India eliminated
70AD Egypt eliminated
110AD Spain eliminated, war on France
170AD Zulu eliminated
210AD Mainland secured, France have retreated to their island, have only just captured the Great Lighthouse from them. Prior to this have lost several galleys trying to reach them (the island requires Great Lighthouse to safely reach). Agree peace with France in exchange for 1 of the 3 towns they have built there.
230AD Peace treaty, what peace treaty? France eliminated.
No Forbidden Palace this game. Somehow I missed the fp corruption bug thread, so wasn't avoiding it for that reason. Could be overwhelming on this map if anyone is prepared to exploit it, although I think it is well against the spirit of the competition. Hopefully a rule to cover it will be devised before the next GOTM.
Expect to see a BC finish date seriously challenged in this game, particularly if any of the top players can get a popped settler and/or an early leader advantage. Like SirPleb I am interested in seeing how detrimental not building a Forbidden Palace will be in this game. I'm hoping it hasn't made too much difference.
The last advance achieved by anyone was Invention, which I got free through the Great Library. No musketmen to worry about helps a lot. Most defenders were still spearmen. The toughest opponent was probably the Carthaginians. It seemed like every one of their cities was founded on a hill. The ai were terrible at building roads in this game, the border between Spain and France being particularly bad. India hadn't even bothered to connect half their towns, let alone the long trek to their corner of the map.
conquests
Entered MA before 390 BC - I didn't have any saves to check & didn't record the date. I had a couple settlers waiting in defended cities until after the barb rush was over and I settled them in 370 BC after the barbs were gone. (1 city sacked & just lost production and people - didn't lose gold - about 800 in treasury!)
I had planned on an early war with Ottomans to get horses, but around my entry to MA, Rome declared war. Allied with Egypt and Ottomans. Sent a force to try to liberate horses from the Romans to the south, but barbs killed my force. (We all entered about the same time and I counted about 50 barbs heading my way
)
Anyway -- rebuilt my forces while Rome duked it out with Ottomans and Egypt. After MA against Caesar was done, sued for peace.
500 AD DoW on Ottomans to get horses
550 AD Entered GA
690 AD Ottomans cease to exist.
Around this time I learned gunpowder and I don't have a source of saltpeter However, Rome and Egypt are still at war and Rome has a nice size 1 city with saltpeter to the south. I send 2 settlers and settled on both sides (hoping Egypt will raze, but if not, will try culture flip as I'm not strong enough to take on Rome)
700 I'm behind in tech and Egypt is starting to lose so: I trade Egypt iron and 56 gold for Banking, Astronomy and Military Tradition. Now I'm only behind by navigation and hopefully the iron will give Cleo stronger units to raze that Roman city
(which she eventually did before they declared peace)
710 Hadrumetum flips to me
I thought about a war against weak Persia, but about 5 turns before I was ready, they signed mmp's with 2 other countries - I think Carthage and France --- I hate wars and only try to declare it against weaker foes. So......
From this point on, I focus on tech and infrastructure. I entered the IA somewhere around 1200 AD (i think - I didn't keep very good notes this age).
Arab MA wonders (hand built - never had a leader)
Sun Tzu 300 AD
Sistine 640 AD
Smiths 1140 AD
My minimap from somewhere around the end of MA/Start of IA
Entered MA before 390 BC - I didn't have any saves to check & didn't record the date. I had a couple settlers waiting in defended cities until after the barb rush was over and I settled them in 370 BC after the barbs were gone. (1 city sacked & just lost production and people - didn't lose gold - about 800 in treasury!)
I had planned on an early war with Ottomans to get horses, but around my entry to MA, Rome declared war. Allied with Egypt and Ottomans. Sent a force to try to liberate horses from the Romans to the south, but barbs killed my force. (We all entered about the same time and I counted about 50 barbs heading my way
) Anyway -- rebuilt my forces while Rome duked it out with Ottomans and Egypt. After MA against Caesar was done, sued for peace.
500 AD DoW on Ottomans to get horses
550 AD Entered GA
690 AD Ottomans cease to exist.
Around this time I learned gunpowder and I don't have a source of saltpeter
However, Rome and Egypt are still at war and Rome has a nice size 1 city with saltpeter to the south. I send 2 settlers and settled on both sides (hoping Egypt will raze, but if not, will try culture flip as I'm not strong enough to take on Rome)700 I'm behind in tech and Egypt is starting to lose so: I trade Egypt iron and 56 gold for Banking, Astronomy and Military Tradition. Now I'm only behind by navigation and hopefully the iron will give Cleo stronger units to raze that Roman city
(which she eventually did before they declared peace)710 Hadrumetum flips to me
I thought about a war against weak Persia, but about 5 turns before I was ready, they signed mmp's with 2 other countries - I think Carthage and France --- I hate wars and only try to declare it against weaker foes. So......
From this point on, I focus on tech and infrastructure. I entered the IA somewhere around 1200 AD (i think - I didn't keep very good notes this age).
Arab MA wonders (hand built - never had a leader)
Sun Tzu 300 AD
Sistine 640 AD
Smiths 1140 AD
My minimap from somewhere around the end of MA/Start of IA
ptw open 1.21
here is a link to my previous report:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1215891#post1215891
I finished in 710AD by domination with a Firaxis score of 7361.
The best units I faced were knights, and no musketmen at all. No one was near leaving the middle ages. The only techs they researched beyond education were music theory & astronomy.
After entering the middle ages, I did 40 turn research on monotheism & theology. I spent lots of cash to rush markets in my core & markets/courts in my second ring.
OTTOMANS 230BC-70BC
============
I did not war in the ancient age, but I did war with ancient age units.
I started with the Ottomans who were pathetic. I attacked with about 20 horsemen and totally overran them. I got republic in peace.
ROME 50AD-310AD
===========
Rome had the pyramids. I took them out entirely with horsemen as well. I had waves of fresh replacements from my core. I faced a few legionares and pikemen, but not too many. This war took a while, but I also benefitted by getting a leader (lots of archers to kill). The leader built my fp in a spot so that both former roman and ottoman lands would benefit. I somewhat regret using horsemen as my casualties were higher than I'd like.
I built my fp in 330 AD in Bayt Ras, and switched to republic. here is the picture of my second core at 710AD:
CARTHAGE 480-540AD
==============
I hand build sun tzu's art of war in Medina 450AD, and carthage cascaded to leo's workshop in Utica 460AD. I took Utica in 480AD, which was defended by only one Numidian merc. This triggered my golden age & halved upgrade costs. I had about 40 horsemen, and fully upgraded in a couple turns.
I did 4 turn research on gunpowder-military tradition during my golden age while still running about +300 gpt.
EGYPT 550-580AD
=========
Egypt spent most of their time building wonders, and were ahead in tech along with france. They had built:
great library, lighthouse, colossus, copernicus. They hadn't really focused much on military and I took their mainland in 2 turns. The other cities took a little longer to reach.
ZULU 590-640AD
==========
Not much to say about the Zulu. They had more military than the others, but only a couple knights. This took longer as I had to slog through a little jungle.
PERSIA 610-650AD
==========
I think I saw three immortals, mostly spearmen.
SPAIN & INDIA 670-710AD
===========
I attacked india and spain with cavalry.
India had been behind in tech since we only made contact with them after the middle ages. When I attacked them, they had just learned feudalism.
Spain was a little better defended, but not ready for cavalry. When my game ended, India had 7 cities left, and spain had 2.
FRANCE
=========
they were busy building culture and wonders I think. I recieved a notice that they had started js bachs.
here is a link to my previous report:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1215891#post1215891
I finished in 710AD by domination with a Firaxis score of 7361.
The best units I faced were knights, and no musketmen at all. No one was near leaving the middle ages. The only techs they researched beyond education were music theory & astronomy.
After entering the middle ages, I did 40 turn research on monotheism & theology. I spent lots of cash to rush markets in my core & markets/courts in my second ring.
OTTOMANS 230BC-70BC
============
I did not war in the ancient age, but I did war with ancient age units.
I started with the Ottomans who were pathetic. I attacked with about 20 horsemen and totally overran them. I got republic in peace.
ROME 50AD-310AD
===========
Rome had the pyramids. I took them out entirely with horsemen as well. I had waves of fresh replacements from my core. I faced a few legionares and pikemen, but not too many. This war took a while, but I also benefitted by getting a leader (lots of archers to kill). The leader built my fp in a spot so that both former roman and ottoman lands would benefit. I somewhat regret using horsemen as my casualties were higher than I'd like.
I built my fp in 330 AD in Bayt Ras, and switched to republic. here is the picture of my second core at 710AD:
CARTHAGE 480-540AD
==============
I hand build sun tzu's art of war in Medina 450AD, and carthage cascaded to leo's workshop in Utica 460AD. I took Utica in 480AD, which was defended by only one Numidian merc. This triggered my golden age & halved upgrade costs. I had about 40 horsemen, and fully upgraded in a couple turns.
I did 4 turn research on gunpowder-military tradition during my golden age while still running about +300 gpt.
EGYPT 550-580AD
=========
Egypt spent most of their time building wonders, and were ahead in tech along with france. They had built:
great library, lighthouse, colossus, copernicus. They hadn't really focused much on military and I took their mainland in 2 turns. The other cities took a little longer to reach.
ZULU 590-640AD
==========
Not much to say about the Zulu. They had more military than the others, but only a couple knights. This took longer as I had to slog through a little jungle.
PERSIA 610-650AD
==========
I think I saw three immortals, mostly spearmen.
SPAIN & INDIA 670-710AD
===========
I attacked india and spain with cavalry.
India had been behind in tech since we only made contact with them after the middle ages. When I attacked them, they had just learned feudalism.
Spain was a little better defended, but not ready for cavalry. When my game ended, India had 7 cities left, and spain had 2.
FRANCE
=========
they were busy building culture and wonders I think. I recieved a notice that they had started js bachs.
dojoboy
Tsalagi
How?
I can never invest so much in research due to expenses. Did you have no infrastructure or units?conquests
Entered MA before 390 BC - I didn't have any saves to check & didn't record the date. I had a couple settlers waiting in defended cities until after the barb rush was over and I settled them in 370 BC after the barbs were gone. (1 city sacked & just lost production and people - didn't lose gold - about 800 in treasury!)
I had planned on an early war with Ottomans to get horses, but around my entry to MA, Rome declared war. Allied with Egypt and Ottomans. Sent a force to try to liberate horses from the Romans to the south, but barbs killed my force. (We all entered about the same time and I counted about 50 barbs heading my way )
Anyway -- rebuilt my forces while Rome duked it out with Ottomans and Egypt. After MA against Caesar was done, sued for peace.
500 AD DoW on Ottomans to get horses
550 AD Entered GA
690 AD Ottomans cease to exist.
Around this time I learned gunpowder and I don't have a source of saltpeter However, Rome and Egypt are still at war and Rome has a nice size 1 city with saltpeter to the south. I send 2 settlers and settled on both sides (hoping Egypt will raze, but if not, will try culture flip as I'm not strong enough to take on Rome)
700 I'm behind in tech and Egypt is starting to lose so: I trade Egypt iron and 56 gold for Banking, Astronomy and Military Tradition. Now I'm only behind by navigation and hopefully the iron will give Cleo stronger units to raze that Roman city (which she eventually did before they declared peace)
710 Hadrumetum flips to me
I thought about a war against weak Persia, but about 5 turns before I was ready, they signed mmp's with 2 other countries - I think Carthage and France --- I hate wars and only try to declare it against weaker foes. So......
From this point on, I focus on tech and infrastructure. I entered the IA somewhere around 1200 AD (i think - I didn't keep very good notes this age).
Arab MA wonders (hand built - never had a leader)
Sun Tzu 300 AD
Sistine 640 AD
Smiths 1140 AD
My minimap from somewhere around the end of MA/Start of IA
Entered MA before 390 BC - I didn't have any saves to check & didn't record the date. I had a couple settlers waiting in defended cities until after the barb rush was over and I settled them in 370 BC after the barbs were gone. (1 city sacked & just lost production and people - didn't lose gold - about 800 in treasury!)
I had planned on an early war with Ottomans to get horses, but around my entry to MA, Rome declared war. Allied with Egypt and Ottomans. Sent a force to try to liberate horses from the Romans to the south, but barbs killed my force. (We all entered about the same time and I counted about 50 barbs heading my way
) Anyway -- rebuilt my forces while Rome duked it out with Ottomans and Egypt. After MA against Caesar was done, sued for peace.
500 AD DoW on Ottomans to get horses
550 AD Entered GA
690 AD Ottomans cease to exist.
Around this time I learned gunpowder and I don't have a source of saltpeter
However, Rome and Egypt are still at war and Rome has a nice size 1 city with saltpeter to the south. I send 2 settlers and settled on both sides (hoping Egypt will raze, but if not, will try culture flip as I'm not strong enough to take on Rome)700 I'm behind in tech and Egypt is starting to lose so: I trade Egypt iron and 56 gold for Banking, Astronomy and Military Tradition. Now I'm only behind by navigation and hopefully the iron will give Cleo stronger units to raze that Roman city
(which she eventually did before they declared peace)710 Hadrumetum flips to me
I thought about a war against weak Persia, but about 5 turns before I was ready, they signed mmp's with 2 other countries - I think Carthage and France --- I hate wars and only try to declare it against weaker foes. So......
From this point on, I focus on tech and infrastructure. I entered the IA somewhere around 1200 AD (i think - I didn't keep very good notes this age).
Arab MA wonders (hand built - never had a leader)
Sun Tzu 300 AD
Sistine 640 AD
Smiths 1140 AD
My minimap from somewhere around the end of MA/Start of IA
smackster
SGOTM
He would have either had some GPT trades going that would have kept the gold in check, or had enough cash on hand to handle 15 turns on negative cash growthOriginally posted by dojoboy
How?
Originally posted by dojoboy
How?
dojoboy: This is one of the few (and one of the first of many, hopefully) games where I was able to research like this. I am not 100% certain why it worked, but here is what I did, and somewhere in here is what does it (probably).
First, I tried to ensure that every square being worked by a citizen was developed. This meant that I had a lot of workers. When I was fully developed and was not going to be conquering for a while, I joined the workers to cities. But I was very careful to maximize what my citizens were doing by having their squares developed.
Second, I tried to maximize my population. I worked to avoid situations where cities stopped growing due to having entertainers (or because the squares were not developed, see above). I tried to make sure each city could produce enough food to support a 12 population.
Third, to help with maximizing my population, I built the cheap cultural improvements to keep people happy, and encourage some WLTKDs. Also, I would try to ensure that once I had construction, I built aqueducts in cities that needed them. When a city was approaching 6 and had no water, I would try to make it so the aqueduct would be complete right in time for the next population growth.
Fourth, I tried to limit my city improvements to those that made sense for the population size. If I could keep the entire population happy with just a temple, then it would get just a temple. If it grew to where more was needed, then they would get a cathedral, etc. Any city that approached size 6 would get a marketplace (and later, a bank). Same for libraries and universities. The smaller cities would get neither.
Fifth, if a city was growing rapidly and as such was likely to need those cultural improvements, I would avoid building barracks. Barracks would go to the cities with small populations or where the other improvements were done.
Sixth, I tried to use the advice given in the war academy to decide which techs were likely to NOT be researched by the AIs before me. When I would get a tech they did not have, I would immediately sell it to as many other civs as possible, getting gpt.
Seventh, in order to get and keep the gpt deals, I tried to keep my reputation clean. I avoided raizing cities, I honored deals. I gifted often. And when I had extra resources and could not get good deals for them, I would simply give them to a civ I had a gpt deal with (to help encourage them to honor the deal).
Eighth, I tried to stay in the government types that boost commerce the most (Republic and Democracy), using the religious trait's short anarchy to switch to Monarchy when necessary for war-weariness reasons.
Ninth, when warring, I encouraged others to join in. By keeping the other civs fighting, they were researching less, and by them researching less, I was getting advances first, which was letting me sell to them for gpt, which was letting me get more advances first, etc.
I tend to think the plentiful workers is key early, and the ninth one is key later. But I am still just figuring out much of this.
Originally posted by dojoboy
How?
I only built temples, barracks and a couple of granaries so overheads were low, around 20 - 30 gpt if I recall correctly. I had about 1250g saved from researching Polytheism at minimum science, and from trading aggressively during the ancient age. I also traded maps each turn for about another 10gpt, so overall I lost about 200g over this research period. Would have been less but I went over my free unit limit. In hindsight I could have kept under the limit by building horsemen instead of warriors.
The advantage of a focused strategy is that you can trim down your builds to what is essential. I didn't build any libraries, aqueducts or cathedrals, and just a single marketplace in Makkah. Even temples are optional in a fast conquest game, but I wanted some cheap culture to minimise flips.
dojoboy
Tsalagi
Right. I still get caught up in building improvements that are not needed for particular victory goals. I'm still impressed with such research times in the early game. In the late game, I too can max research out when I've landed sweet deals or am sitting on a load of gold, but never have I been that successful in the early game. Thanks.
Nice job. I have, on only one occassion, been creative enough to actually think of doing this in a game before. I was racing a Civ to the UN, and investigating the rival build periodically. By joining a couple workers, I matched his production time and won the race.
PTW 1.27
Hello again,
As with the others i went for Domination. I had taken out most of the Ottomans in the Ancient age using swords. I then built up horsemen in preperation for upgrades to Ansars. As I only once turned science up above 10% or 1 scientist level -- and in spite of barbarians -- I had plenty of money to upgrade with. The first civ that fell was the Egyptians. they had 2 great wonders in Thebes - Pyramids and Great Lighthouse. took all but two cities in a peace treaty. then went on and captured all the Carthagian cities.
Waited a few turns until the 20 turn peace treaty with Egypt ran out. by this time both Chemistry and Metallurgy had shown up. I was only starting a 40 turn on chem, so I used some of my over 3000 gold to buy both techs from Egypt, for about 1500 gold, straight up. Then declared war on them, capturing their cities and getting back about half that gold for free. then purchase MT, and went on to attack Persia. The real magnet was SunTzu's in Persepolis. they didn't last long -- so I went on to take Spain and then France. France was a bit tougher then the others because one attack sparked their GA. They reached the Industrial age however with only one city left. I made peace, hauled all my cavalry down to Rome. I probably would have won quicker if I had attacked the zulu. however, I wanted to have the moral victory of owning all wonders, so I went and attacked rome. it fell rather quickly. Unfortunately, Rome built Magellans in 1270, the turn I reached Domination. I got a Firaxis score of something like 5700 which is certainly not extremely good.
two notes: I never built any wonders but almost owned all of them.
and, I never researched or traded for Education. for a long time I just turned to all cash. this I used to rush temples, infra, and even extra units in far away cities. however, a few turns before the game ended I catapulted myself to tech parity by capturing Rome with the GL. this put me at the start of the IA, giving me nine techs for free.
Unfortunately, the day after I finished the game and before I could submit, I suffered a catostrophic hard disk failure. My Civ computer's hard disk fried and I lost the save, so I won't submit this month.
RRnut
Hello again,
As with the others i went for Domination. I had taken out most of the Ottomans in the Ancient age using swords. I then built up horsemen in preperation for upgrades to Ansars. As I only once turned science up above 10% or 1 scientist level -- and in spite of barbarians -- I had plenty of money to upgrade with. The first civ that fell was the Egyptians. they had 2 great wonders in Thebes - Pyramids and Great Lighthouse. took all but two cities in a peace treaty. then went on and captured all the Carthagian cities.
Waited a few turns until the 20 turn peace treaty with Egypt ran out. by this time both Chemistry and Metallurgy had shown up. I was only starting a 40 turn on chem, so I used some of my over 3000 gold to buy both techs from Egypt, for about 1500 gold, straight up. Then declared war on them, capturing their cities and getting back about half that gold for free. then purchase MT, and went on to attack Persia. The real magnet was SunTzu's in Persepolis. they didn't last long -- so I went on to take Spain and then France. France was a bit tougher then the others because one attack sparked their GA. They reached the Industrial age however with only one city left. I made peace, hauled all my cavalry down to Rome. I probably would have won quicker if I had attacked the zulu. however, I wanted to have the moral victory of owning all wonders, so I went and attacked rome. it fell rather quickly. Unfortunately, Rome built Magellans in 1270, the turn I reached Domination. I got a Firaxis score of something like 5700 which is certainly not extremely good.
two notes: I never built any wonders but almost owned all of them.
and, I never researched or traded for Education. for a long time I just turned to all cash. this I used to rush temples, infra, and even extra units in far away cities. however, a few turns before the game ended I catapulted myself to tech parity by capturing Rome with the GL. this put me at the start of the IA, giving me nine techs for free.
Unfortunately, the day after I finished the game and before I could submit, I suffered a catostrophic hard disk failure. My Civ computer's hard disk fried and I lost the save, so I won't submit this month.
RRnut
SirPleb
Shaken, not stirred.
Link to spoiler1
After entering the Middle Ages in 875BC I researched Monotheism, traded for Feudalism in 490BC, then researched Chivalry.
During this period I stirred up some wars. The only war before my meddling was Zulu vs. Rome. I declared war on Rome, France, Egypt, and India. I then allied Ottomans against Rome, Spain against France, Carthage against Egypt, and Persia against India. That kept everyone busy while I continued research and built some Horsemen for subsequent upgrades
A few times peace broke out between other Civs. Each time that happened I bought a new alliance to keep them going. When Zulu and Rome made peace I redirected the Zulu's attention to France.
A side effect of the wars around this time was that Zulu, Egypt, and Carthage got their Golden Ages. I was glad of that, would rather have them use their GAs while fighting each other than later on against me.
I was directly involved only in the war against Egypt. I picked off her units which came within reach and in 310BC got a leader from that. He rushed Sun Tzu's.
In 250BC I learned Chivalry. After that I did no further research. I had 22 Horsemen ready to upgrade but had little gold. I upgraded a few and triggered a Golden Age in 230BC.
The Golden Age was wonderfully productive! Lots of gold for upgrades and lots of capacity for building new units. After upgrading all of the horsemen I disconnected my iron. After that I built horsemen at a high rate. Every few turns I reconnected the iron, upgraded all the horsemen, then disconnected the iron again.
I decided to attack Rome first. She didn't have iron connected yet, and she had the Pyramids. In 90BC my first group of Ansar Warriors arrived at Rome (via a ROP with Ottomans) and took it. In 10AD Rome was down to two towns and I gave her peace.
I cancelled my ROP with Ottomans and hit them from both sides at once (my forces in Rome on one side, new units from home on the other.) In 130AD I gave Ottomans peace, leaving them with two towns.
In 150AD Persia and India signed peace. I signed peace with India immediately and did not war with her again for the rest of the game. From early on I'd planned to leave her mostly alone. I wouldn't need her land for my domination goal. She didn't have near opponents to keep her occupied and would probably have lots of elephants.
Since my alliance with Persia was over I declared war on her. I then worked through Egypt and Persia simultaneously.
When my Golden Age ended in 190AD I had 50 Ansar Warriors and 20 Horsmen ready for the next upgrade cycle.
A second great leader in 210AD rushed Leonardo's. This would free up some cash from the upgrade cycle to purchase more temples and settlers for claiming land.
After Egypt and Persia I worked through Carthage, Spain, France, and Zulu in that order. In most cases I declared war on the next rival before finishing off the one before. I also finished off Rome and Ottomans when my peace deals with them expired. I didn't quite finish off France and Zulu before reaching domination in 470AD:
My forces reached a peak size of 88 Ansar Warriors in 400AD. After that I stopped producing them and disbanded some to rush settlers.
I don't think this was the best game for me to try without Forbidden Palace - I'm not sure it made any difference not having one. I didn't miss it. The core region with its ring 5 cities was quite productive. I started a second ring at distance 10 but there wasn't time for any of the towns in that ring to become significantly productive
I really like Ansar Warriors!
Predator vs Open isn't even a contest.
Snaga (Predator) learn Chivalry 370bc - Victory 230ad
SirPleb (Predator) learn Chivalry 250bc - Victory 470ad
gozpel (Open) learn Chivalry 190ad - Victory 560ad
I will send my new learnt strategies to the reject shop and continue daydreaming about those imaginary medals
At least I find one little thing, that keep my spirits up. From Chivalry to victory it took:
Snaga 600 years
SirPleb 720 years
gozpel 350 years
I suppose that is easily explained by Predators had more enemies to fight? What do you say guys?
It would be interesting to see when ppl learnt Chivalry on the 3 different levels.
And no, I'm not envious and not ready for Predator!
Snaga (Predator) learn Chivalry 370bc - Victory 230ad
SirPleb (Predator) learn Chivalry 250bc - Victory 470ad
gozpel (Open) learn Chivalry 190ad - Victory 560ad
I will send my new learnt strategies to the reject shop and continue daydreaming about those imaginary medals
At least I find one little thing, that keep my spirits up. From Chivalry to victory it took:
Snaga 600 years
SirPleb 720 years
gozpel 350 years
I suppose that is easily explained by Predators had more enemies to fight? What do you say guys?
It would be interesting to see when ppl learnt Chivalry on the 3 different levels.
And no, I'm not envious and not ready for Predator!
Gotta love that. But it has other benefits beyond speeding up production in that city. Workers have a support cost in most government types. And when they are working a square (particularly a roaded square) as a citizen instead, they are producing money.
Money is power.
Melifluous
King
Open 1.27f PTW
OK finished at last.
Domination victory in 1375AD firaxis score 5454 should cheer you up Gozpel
Following on from my previous post in this thread,
the French attacked me and took one of my cities.
A bit later I counterattacked and took 4-5 cities and after some settler creeping, rushing border temples and general filling in the gaps I won.
One thing of note though is the Civs left alive at the End.
France
Zulu
Spain
Carthage
and Ottomans
not bad huh?
Melifluous
OK finished at last.
Domination victory in 1375AD firaxis score 5454 should cheer you up Gozpel
Following on from my previous post in this thread,
the French attacked me and took one of my cities.
A bit later I counterattacked and took 4-5 cities and after some settler creeping, rushing border temples and general filling in the gaps I won.
One thing of note though is the Civs left alive at the End.
France
Zulu
Spain
Carthage
and Ottomans
not bad huh?
Melifluous
Originally posted by gozpel
Predator vs Open isn't even a contest.
Snaga (Predator) learn Chivalry 370bc - Victory 230ad
SirPleb (Predator) learn Chivalry 250bc - Victory 470ad
gozpel (Open) learn Chivalry 190ad - Victory 560ad
I will send my new learnt strategies to the reject shop and continue daydreaming about those imaginary medals
At least I find one little thing, that keep my spirits up. From Chivalry to victory it took:
Snaga 600 years
SirPleb 720 years
gozpel 350 years
I suppose that is easily explained by Predators had more enemies to fight? What do you say guys?
It would be interesting to see when ppl learnt Chivalry on the 3 different levels.
And no, I'm not envious and not ready for Predator!
I seem to be the exception:
tao (Predator) chivalry 230AD - victory 720AD
It is also better to compare turns, not years:
Snaga: 30
gozpel: 34
SirPleb: 47
tao: 48
At least I won my first predator game.
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