Spoonwood's Hall of Fame Attempts
- Thread starter Spoonwood
- Start date
I decided to RoP rape Scandinavia. I took 4 of his cities in one turn and kept them. I didn't get Trondheim, their capital on that turn. I had to pay Hannibal a little, but he would still sign an RoP with me. He started Theory of Evolution on the interturn. Also, 2 or 3 rifles marched near one of the cities I had took, but I took Trondheim the next turn (I think I used a 3/4 veteran as my final unit to take it). That puts me up to 52% of the world's territory with a score of 4518 in 1160 AD.
By far I've thought this the most complicated game I've ever played. I mean... I started off by building marketplaces, going the Republic route, and basically trying to raise score the whole time *while* I've pounced on the AIs. More often than not, it seems like either myself or someone else advises a newbie to focus on a simple objective and stick to it. In this sort of game, I've got multiple objectives going (even with limited micromanagement in the beginning). I think that's the best way to play this (at least at this level)... but I guess I never realized how complex this game could really get or something.
Usually I have sort of a half-hearted attitude towards micromanagement... say in a fast reserach game. I *might* increase my specialists if I really feel I can get tech X in 1 less turn... if I have that sort of intuition. But, usually, I don't worry about micromanaging too much, becasue even if it improves my finish date for the victory condition, it seems like a slight effect. I guess since I don't take territory from the AIs or something like not really getting much past the Optimal City Number, I don't think it ends up mattering too much. But, in *this* game, whenver I think about micromanaging, I start to realize that probably every little bit rises my score a little bit earlier and thus a little bit overall, and since the game goes on so long, it adds up.
Hannibal founded lol... ahem... Iol... in a tundra spot. I almost want to have that as the last city around, but it's on a coast. I kind of worry about him landing settlers in open space if I don't land lock him or Isabella. I've used my cash lately for upgrading my tacks of cannons. I may have gone overboard on them... although I haven't lost a single one, while I've lost plenty of cavalry over the years. Right now I have:
96 workers
16 Rifles
35 cavalry
5 infantry
39 cannons
24 artillery
1 galleon
4 armies
I had another galleon to transport the armies to that island. I also had a frigate in case Bill had a ship or two out to kill me. I still have 2 3-cavalry armies on that island since I have Hannibal's silly city over there. I also have 2 4-cavalry armies. If I get an MGL at a timely point, say right before I get close to finishing off Isabella, I think that, as I mentioned before, a Palace swap will ultimately effect an increased effectiveness of the luxury slider overall. This will mean I'll put courthouses and/or police stations in my current core cities at or shortly before the palace swap. I'll also have to figure out what I want to keep, what I want to throw away, and what I want to keep anew exactly.
See how complicated this can get (O.K. most of you already know this already). Not only do I have all the workers to manage and the tech tree and trading to manage initially, I have improvements I want... which comes out differently than just about any other victory condition really, I have score to maximize, I wars to fight and manage by fighting intelligently planning ahead a little mentally, picking targets, etc., city placement now and ultimately becomes an issue to think about, as well as trying to keep cities... or instead raze and *rush* settlers out (as I've learned here more or less) to get the territory before the AIs try for it, and then there's the issue of what land I want to have and what land I could care less about. In a word, this game is EPIC.
By far I've thought this the most complicated game I've ever played. I mean... I started off by building marketplaces, going the Republic route, and basically trying to raise score the whole time *while* I've pounced on the AIs. More often than not, it seems like either myself or someone else advises a newbie to focus on a simple objective and stick to it. In this sort of game, I've got multiple objectives going (even with limited micromanagement in the beginning). I think that's the best way to play this (at least at this level)... but I guess I never realized how complex this game could really get or something.
Usually I have sort of a half-hearted attitude towards micromanagement... say in a fast reserach game. I *might* increase my specialists if I really feel I can get tech X in 1 less turn... if I have that sort of intuition. But, usually, I don't worry about micromanaging too much, becasue even if it improves my finish date for the victory condition, it seems like a slight effect. I guess since I don't take territory from the AIs or something like not really getting much past the Optimal City Number, I don't think it ends up mattering too much. But, in *this* game, whenver I think about micromanaging, I start to realize that probably every little bit rises my score a little bit earlier and thus a little bit overall, and since the game goes on so long, it adds up.
Hannibal founded lol... ahem... Iol... in a tundra spot. I almost want to have that as the last city around, but it's on a coast. I kind of worry about him landing settlers in open space if I don't land lock him or Isabella. I've used my cash lately for upgrading my tacks of cannons. I may have gone overboard on them... although I haven't lost a single one, while I've lost plenty of cavalry over the years. Right now I have:
96 workers
16 Rifles
35 cavalry
5 infantry
39 cannons
24 artillery
1 galleon
4 armies
I had another galleon to transport the armies to that island. I also had a frigate in case Bill had a ship or two out to kill me. I still have 2 3-cavalry armies on that island since I have Hannibal's silly city over there. I also have 2 4-cavalry armies. If I get an MGL at a timely point, say right before I get close to finishing off Isabella, I think that, as I mentioned before, a Palace swap will ultimately effect an increased effectiveness of the luxury slider overall. This will mean I'll put courthouses and/or police stations in my current core cities at or shortly before the palace swap. I'll also have to figure out what I want to keep, what I want to throw away, and what I want to keep anew exactly.
See how complicated this can get (O.K. most of you already know this already). Not only do I have all the workers to manage and the tech tree and trading to manage initially, I have improvements I want... which comes out differently than just about any other victory condition really, I have score to maximize, I wars to fight and manage by fighting intelligently planning ahead a little mentally, picking targets, etc., city placement now and ultimately becomes an issue to think about, as well as trying to keep cities... or instead raze and *rush* settlers out (as I've learned here more or less) to get the territory before the AIs try for it, and then there's the issue of what land I want to have and what land I could care less about. In a word, this game is EPIC.
Some notes for future games, where I see I can improve. More like a stream-of-conscioussness in fragmented sentences than proper English. New cities building marketplaces or aqueducts get mental circles. Plant and chop forests before irrigating to hopefully lessen false forest chops around these cities with marketplaces or needing aqueducts. Then grow them to size 12 and use civil engineers for the hospitals (get to Replacable Parts ASAP... artilery proper+faster workers+civil engineers... goodness gracious, the tech seems overpowered for overall growth). I'll have a little more happiness as I grow this way. Basic build pattern of the new cities goes aqueduct (if not on a river or lake... plant as many cities as possible on rivers, hence pangea seems worth consideration in this respect), marketplace, hospital, corthouse, police station. Maximize efficiency of workers... do you need two natives to construct a railroad, or can a native and a slave do it? How many workers do you need to plant and chop a forest? Look, look, look at the cities... does some city say 7 turns for growth? Well, do you have specialists there, or can you irrigate/railroad tiles immediately for faster growth? Would adding in a worker in a size 1 town for a faster growth make sense (I haven't done it, but it's worth a thought... 4 turns seems slow especially for inital growth)? If I have an unhappy citizen, does it work out better to have the city grow faster, or does it work out better to use a civil engineer since that's a content citizen instead of an unhappy one? I've prefered growth first. If/when you have food that will overrun the box and you don't need another civil engineer to finish your project in X turns and you have a good happiness situation, do you use a scientist instead or do you let the tile get worked and have an extra happy citizen instead? I've done both... maybe that's too slight of an effect either way to think about all too much.
Whoever builds Leo's should get a circle. The same goes for Smith's. Taking Leo's early and keeping it can make for a nicer cannon-artillery upgrade (something probably more obvious to a warmonger than myself). Free markets in some 200+ towns or whatever, 200 more gold... a quicker rush on whatever building you want. Needless to say I already see a lot of improvement for this type of game. It really does work out entirely different to optimize things... it's NOT a war game where you just sit there for centuries after. Conquest and war *only* serve as a means to getting more territory to prevent the AIs from acheiving a victory condition and to improve score. The AIs may have built you a market or a bank or something if you can keep cities or don't mind occasional re-flips (don't they get a free defensive unit this way?). Then again, re-flips increases war weariness, right?
With how many forests I can plant and chop, how many rails I can get up, how much irrigation (and mining in some parts) I want to do, it becomes radically clear to me that I want industrious workers... especially for larger and larger map sizes. Even if I can territory earlier with another tribe, I can probably get markets/aqueducts in a lot faster with an industrious tribe and grow much faster overall with happier citizens since expansion lasts and lasts in this type of game. If one razes and replaces, then the growth from small cities to large cities will happen a lot faster overall with an agricultural tribe than another one, because you have an abundance of cities that get to grow. I really feel surprised so many other players seem to prefer the Iroquois and potentially earlier map control over the Maya (or the Ottos *perhaps*... if the commercial trait gave half-priced markets, then the French would come onto the table) with their exponential industrial age growth. After all, the game lasts all the way to the end... it's not a warmonger game where you sit around wondering what to do after you've killed and crippled AIs... you only do that as a means to a higher score. And with some exceptions for cavalry UUs, and militaristic tribes, just about everyone has equal warmongering power when you hit Replacable Parts. Of course you do see the Maya a good bit, but not as much as I would expect... especially on Deity.
Whoever builds Leo's should get a circle. The same goes for Smith's. Taking Leo's early and keeping it can make for a nicer cannon-artillery upgrade (something probably more obvious to a warmonger than myself). Free markets in some 200+ towns or whatever, 200 more gold... a quicker rush on whatever building you want. Needless to say I already see a lot of improvement for this type of game. It really does work out entirely different to optimize things... it's NOT a war game where you just sit there for centuries after. Conquest and war *only* serve as a means to getting more territory to prevent the AIs from acheiving a victory condition and to improve score. The AIs may have built you a market or a bank or something if you can keep cities or don't mind occasional re-flips (don't they get a free defensive unit this way?). Then again, re-flips increases war weariness, right?
With how many forests I can plant and chop, how many rails I can get up, how much irrigation (and mining in some parts) I want to do, it becomes radically clear to me that I want industrious workers... especially for larger and larger map sizes. Even if I can territory earlier with another tribe, I can probably get markets/aqueducts in a lot faster with an industrious tribe and grow much faster overall with happier citizens since expansion lasts and lasts in this type of game. If one razes and replaces, then the growth from small cities to large cities will happen a lot faster overall with an agricultural tribe than another one, because you have an abundance of cities that get to grow. I really feel surprised so many other players seem to prefer the Iroquois and potentially earlier map control over the Maya (or the Ottos *perhaps*... if the commercial trait gave half-priced markets, then the French would come onto the table) with their exponential industrial age growth. After all, the game lasts all the way to the end... it's not a warmonger game where you sit around wondering what to do after you've killed and crippled AIs... you only do that as a means to a higher score. And with some exceptions for cavalry UUs, and militaristic tribes, just about everyone has equal warmongering power when you hit Replacable Parts. Of course you do see the Maya a good bit, but not as much as I would expect... especially on Deity.
After remembering my "lazy" histographic game and thinking about my map, I found a perhaps simpler way to effectively land-lock the remaining AI on *this* map. I will give Spain an ocean, and I won't assault Madrid. That might make things easier, as AI capital's usually have the most defenders. Then again, Madrid stands only at size 6 right now.
Before markets, and while at peace, I've just adopted the plan of going for a sort of "mix". I'll keep all the citizens happy that I can. If I get any unhappy citizen, I'll take him off the tiles and sacrifice a little growth for a content civil engineer. Then I'll have the city grow to size 12. I've stopped caring about food overrun before or after size 12 as long as I have all happy citizens. Once I hit size 12, I'll use civil engineers to get the hospital in. It's 1200 AD, and I would use the luxury slider more, but I want to upgrade all my cannons. I have 4 armies on the continent and one on that island. The plan goes that I'll take those 4 armies and capture Carthage's capital in 1 turn. I'll then upgrade all my remaining cannons to artillery (it has Leo's). Then I'll abandon their capital so I don't have to defend it and risk losing an army, or losing it on a flip (this causes war weariness, right?) and go at Carthage. Hopefully the war goes quicker this way. Rusaadir (sp?) fortunately lies on the border... the city building Theory of Evolution. I investigaed both Madrid and Carthage's capital seeing if a Universal Suffrage-Theory of Evolution cascade might happen. It doesn't look like it. Thinking more on it... it doesn't matter. Neither of them have Steel or Refining yet, so they can't even get to Combustion via it.. let alone Flight. I don't need it either, because during the war and probably after, the luxury slider will go sky high and almost surely stay there. I have at it 30% right now in 1200 AD and only have it there to stash up on cash so hopefully the war goes quicker with less weariness via the artilleries. I've sold the library and the only research I'll do will come via scientists. I don't care if I even get to Genetics. Cure for Cancer only produces content citizens. Unless I've missed something, it works out better to have happier citizens earlier and using the luxury slider earlier even at 10 or 20% greater than with Cure for Cancer (if it works that way... does it? I kind of doubt it). If/when I swap city spots, I'll try and do it when I have a little cash to cash-rush a market at least, and add in workers immediately. I'll try and keep the city with Smith's.
Actually, should I even use scientists? Maybe it works out better to just use taxmen and forget research all together, so I can rush in courthouses and police stations and other improvements sooner. Or maybe taxmen until I have all of those up or something. I guess getting a future tech might raise score... but that seems too later to have too much of an effect. I would guess an earlier market, courthouse, police station, aqueduct, or hospital might work out more effectively, since it raises your score sooner or helps to ease the burden on the luxury slider. Hmm... I guess spotting uranium and oil raises commerce a bit. Since I didn't start with taxmen earlier (if that's better for this), I think I'll stick with scientists until at least the modern era since I have the music on and I like that music best 
Edit... transit systems... of course.
Edit... transit systems... of course.In 1230 I effected my plan. I started by moving almost all the workers near Scandinavian territory out of there. Then I planted a settler on a hill where it could possibly make for artillery shalcking two cities soon enough. I thought Hannibal had 8 rifles in his capital. Carthage fell after 6 army attacks, all victories on my part. I successfully upgraded all my artillery. Before this though I shallacked Adrianople, which I had lost centuries ago. It had 5 rifles, quite a few more than I expect, but oh well. I spawned Eighteen Rabbit in the siege of Adrianople. I lost I think three vets in the siege, even though I had shallacked the rifles down to 1 or 2 hitpoints. I railoarded up the hill out now Iol, and move my artilleries there then. Finally the few older artilleries swung back around to New Piedras Negras and got to work on Calaris. My military advisor said I had 64 artillery after the upgrades. I had 57 artillery I had upgraded. I leveled 3 cities with 17 artillery and like maybe 10 cavlary if that. 1 other artillery pounded a cavalry. With now a 5th army, Hannibal should get pounced quickly. I bought some settlers and upgraded 14 rifles to infantry. Granted, I have a lot of border towns, but I don't think his counterattack will cause all too much trouble. I then used 3 of the cavalry armies near Carthage to attack the size 13 Hippo. Two of them got redlined in the process, but all won their battles and I razed Hippo. Armies+artillery+ROP rape=disaster for an AI. I stacked those 3 armies in one spot and fortified two of them. I thought about planting a city in Carthage's place right after I abandoned it immediately, but decided to not risk a flip. I fiddled with the luxury slider a bit, then decided on 50%... an army or two more might still help.
I know my score went from 4875 in 1220 AD to 4937 in 1230 AD. When I checked MapStat I found that Refining and Scientific Method both showed up for Spain and Carthage. I took out that annoying city on that island, but then lost the army against a regular rifle out in the grassland. It happens sometimes I guess. Hannibal managed to a city I didn't realize he could take on the counterattack. It happens. The Spanish started on Theory of Evolution the next turn and finished Universal Suffrage. Oh well. I realized on the next turn I had bunched of barracks I could now sell as I had Sun Tzu's in Trondheim, so I did that. I bought some cavalry, as I now had plenty of artillery, but since I put a few cavalry in the Scandinavian lands, I now needed more cavalry. I lost a city I called "Fur Camp" to Carthage on the next turn, even though I had an infantry and a rifle parked in it. It only took them three cavalry.
In 1250 AD I had a score of 5051. I effected a razing of Rusaddir and then Oea, which I bombarded down to size 1 before finally destroying with a 3/5 cavalry as the last attacker in 1250 AD. I felt I didn't need to worry as much about healing units as usual. The AI did have some good fortune as I had lost some 4/4 cavalry to 1 hp rifle defenders. I also disbanded that settler I had out where Carthage use to lie as the army there now stood at 16/17. I could put him to better use by starting an assalut in the south... I also wanted him there now to help defend the Viking territory. So he marched right up to river behind Rusicade. As expected I also had some cavalry to clear out in the Viking territory and some Carthagian rifles moving around there. Hence, the cavalry I had down there had helped things, and an army down there might help too.
As a sort of aside I had read Moonsinger's excellent article on the effective use of artillery and re-read it today and some of the thread's comments. It seemed like a great idea at the time. Having seen how effective it can work out even when you have a few 4/4 cavlary losses to rifles (in the speed with which you can destroy enemy cities), I start to think that a simple overall strategy to get wins at higher levels (maybe not Sid) especially as say a scientific would come as to play builder for the first half of the game. Mainly build up your infrastructure with libraries, universities, markets, and even temples and cathedrals and such and just keep up/try to get ahead in the tech pace. Then race to Replacable Parts in the industrial age and get cannons/trebuchets out and upgrade. Maybe pre-build Leo's with Sun Tzu's while you stick to the upper part of the tech tree. With the AIs silly tech path (and how they often ignore Electricity for a bit), then even with a rather fast tech pace you might just have a decent gap before the AIs get to Replacable Parts to pummel whomever you want for a bit while they still have rifles. Once some of them have rubber, things may slow down some... but by then you might have a leader even if you didn't declare before Replacable Parts and a lot more territory. Of course that's not the game here as for a high scoring game, in general, the sooner you can get more territory the better (but if you play in a Republic, keeping your weariness low comes as desired... as well as other factors, like getting and keeping happiness high, growing like a weed when you can through all sorts of means, etc.).
I wonder... how effective do artillery proper and knights work vs. rifles? That's of course not as safe, but still I would think effective. And what about riders and artillery proper vs. rifles?
In 1255 AD I took down two more Carthagian cities via settlers and artillery. I really need a lot more settlers to do this better, so that I can immediately claim the territory. I've abandoned two of the cities I founded so that I could found a city one tile to the side to get those artillery shooting faster.
I know my score went from 4875 in 1220 AD to 4937 in 1230 AD. When I checked MapStat I found that Refining and Scientific Method both showed up for Spain and Carthage. I took out that annoying city on that island, but then lost the army against a regular rifle out in the grassland. It happens sometimes I guess. Hannibal managed to a city I didn't realize he could take on the counterattack. It happens. The Spanish started on Theory of Evolution the next turn and finished Universal Suffrage. Oh well. I realized on the next turn I had bunched of barracks I could now sell as I had Sun Tzu's in Trondheim, so I did that. I bought some cavalry, as I now had plenty of artillery, but since I put a few cavalry in the Scandinavian lands, I now needed more cavalry. I lost a city I called "Fur Camp" to Carthage on the next turn, even though I had an infantry and a rifle parked in it. It only took them three cavalry.
In 1250 AD I had a score of 5051. I effected a razing of Rusaddir and then Oea, which I bombarded down to size 1 before finally destroying with a 3/5 cavalry as the last attacker in 1250 AD. I felt I didn't need to worry as much about healing units as usual. The AI did have some good fortune as I had lost some 4/4 cavalry to 1 hp rifle defenders. I also disbanded that settler I had out where Carthage use to lie as the army there now stood at 16/17. I could put him to better use by starting an assalut in the south... I also wanted him there now to help defend the Viking territory. So he marched right up to river behind Rusicade. As expected I also had some cavalry to clear out in the Viking territory and some Carthagian rifles moving around there. Hence, the cavalry I had down there had helped things, and an army down there might help too.
As a sort of aside I had read Moonsinger's excellent article on the effective use of artillery and re-read it today and some of the thread's comments. It seemed like a great idea at the time. Having seen how effective it can work out even when you have a few 4/4 cavlary losses to rifles (in the speed with which you can destroy enemy cities), I start to think that a simple overall strategy to get wins at higher levels (maybe not Sid) especially as say a scientific would come as to play builder for the first half of the game. Mainly build up your infrastructure with libraries, universities, markets, and even temples and cathedrals and such and just keep up/try to get ahead in the tech pace. Then race to Replacable Parts in the industrial age and get cannons/trebuchets out and upgrade. Maybe pre-build Leo's with Sun Tzu's while you stick to the upper part of the tech tree. With the AIs silly tech path (and how they often ignore Electricity for a bit), then even with a rather fast tech pace you might just have a decent gap before the AIs get to Replacable Parts to pummel whomever you want for a bit while they still have rifles. Once some of them have rubber, things may slow down some... but by then you might have a leader even if you didn't declare before Replacable Parts and a lot more territory. Of course that's not the game here as for a high scoring game, in general, the sooner you can get more territory the better (but if you play in a Republic, keeping your weariness low comes as desired... as well as other factors, like getting and keeping happiness high, growing like a weed when you can through all sorts of means, etc.).
I wonder... how effective do artillery proper and knights work vs. rifles? That's of course not as safe, but still I would think effective. And what about riders and artillery proper vs. rifles?
In 1255 AD I took down two more Carthagian cities via settlers and artillery. I really need a lot more settlers to do this better, so that I can immediately claim the territory. I've abandoned two of the cities I founded so that I could found a city one tile to the side to get those artillery shooting faster.
Whoops, a duplicate picture!
On the 1255-1260 interturn I got really bad news. Spain joined in the war against me. But after fighting some battles in the Scandinavian land I learned Hannibal would talk. Spain didn't have saltpeter and never did really, but with Conqusitadors amuck and the amount of borderlands I had with her I felt I really had no choice but to draft in infantry in some border towns, as I didn't quite have that much defense yet. I first razed Tingis using one of the cavalry armies
, but then realized a better strategy might just work. I rang up Hannibal and well he wouldn't take an RoP in the peace deal. Would he take it after I had made peace with him? I guessed he wouldn't, but decided it worth the shot since I wanted healthy units to go against Spain anyways. He wouldn't sign one... but... I did manage to sign a Mutual Protection Pact with Hannibal, even though it cost me an arm and a leg. If it works, then their alliance will soon get broken, and I can concentrate on Spain.
Spain had just founded Logrono out by the 8/17 army in the desert. I had an RoP with them going, which I managed to quickly raze. Spain declaring on me lead to a happy decline in the luxury slider. However, now I effectively needed to defend any square within 6 spaces of the borders, or I'd risk losing it. None of the old English or Dutch lands had any defense whatsoever as I could easily move there via my rail network for quite some time. But not anymore. I didn't want to suck up city losses, so this mean drafting... which means a reduced score. But, that's how things go sometimes. On a happier note I went after Lagos. I lost an elite against the first 1 hp redlined rifle and lost it, but the next 3 veteran cavalry one without any damage and successfully razed Lagos. Then I put a settler near Oporto
I lost a 3/5 elite in this battle, which I had previously hoped to heal, as I didn't have many cavalry and ideally wanted to go at another Spanish city this turn. Since I lost that, I used the 8/17 army to raze Oporto. I then founded another town outside Murcia and took some more artilleries over there and shot at it blind (unlike what Miss Moonsinger like to use to do). I got it down to size 4. Then I noticed I still had some cavs in reserve. I took my 4/4 vet and attacked the redlined rifle. Then I noticed a happy circumstance... a redlined pike. So, I took my 2/4 veteran cavalry and defeated the pike as the cavalry promoted to a 3/5 elite.
I then got to drafting and disbanded some workers inside Spanish territory, as I didn't want war weariness. Workers in old England and the Old Netherlands all ran to a distant hill near London. I also abandoned cities I thought in danger. Maybe I should have taken the weariness instead, I don't know. Maybe I should have just raised the luxury slider to 90% or something, I don't know. I misread the situation a bit and lost something like 3 to 5 cities on the interturn. I should have just left Spain out. I didn't have any cities revolting, but this situation surely made things worse off than it I would like it. If I had taken them out before rails, maybe they wouldn't have posed such a problem... or if I could have taken out Carthage first, but I really didn't realize how many spots I would need infantry in. I know I can crush them.. but now I've considered abandoning this map and trying for a different histographic game. Spain on pangea means you have to defend *a lot* more territory. On the plus side of things I got Carthage to declare on Spain.
Thing is I kind of liked this map. I had three native luxuries before I declared war and had all of them them for I thought, but I didn't have them all at 10 AD. I didn't use the luxury slider early on, when perhaps I could have. I had very, very little jungle and marsh to clear. But, I really didn't micromanage for happiness during the early wars like I might have, and it took me I believe longer than perhaps could work out on average to spawn a leader. I made some silly military decisions. So, I think I can do better than this map here.
On the 1255-1260 interturn I got really bad news. Spain joined in the war against me. But after fighting some battles in the Scandinavian land I learned Hannibal would talk. Spain didn't have saltpeter and never did really, but with Conqusitadors amuck and the amount of borderlands I had with her I felt I really had no choice but to draft in infantry in some border towns, as I didn't quite have that much defense yet. I first razed Tingis using one of the cavalry armies
, but then realized a better strategy might just work. I rang up Hannibal and well he wouldn't take an RoP in the peace deal. Would he take it after I had made peace with him? I guessed he wouldn't, but decided it worth the shot since I wanted healthy units to go against Spain anyways. He wouldn't sign one... but... I did manage to sign a Mutual Protection Pact with Hannibal, even though it cost me an arm and a leg. If it works, then their alliance will soon get broken, and I can concentrate on Spain.Spain had just founded Logrono out by the 8/17 army in the desert. I had an RoP with them going, which I managed to quickly raze. Spain declaring on me lead to a happy decline in the luxury slider. However, now I effectively needed to defend any square within 6 spaces of the borders, or I'd risk losing it. None of the old English or Dutch lands had any defense whatsoever as I could easily move there via my rail network for quite some time. But not anymore. I didn't want to suck up city losses, so this mean drafting... which means a reduced score. But, that's how things go sometimes. On a happier note I went after Lagos. I lost an elite against the first 1 hp redlined rifle and lost it, but the next 3 veteran cavalry one without any damage and successfully razed Lagos. Then I put a settler near Oporto
I lost a 3/5 elite in this battle, which I had previously hoped to heal, as I didn't have many cavalry and ideally wanted to go at another Spanish city this turn. Since I lost that, I used the 8/17 army to raze Oporto. I then founded another town outside Murcia and took some more artilleries over there and shot at it blind (unlike what Miss Moonsinger like to use to do). I got it down to size 4. Then I noticed I still had some cavs in reserve. I took my 4/4 vet and attacked the redlined rifle. Then I noticed a happy circumstance... a redlined pike. So, I took my 2/4 veteran cavalry and defeated the pike as the cavalry promoted to a 3/5 elite.I then got to drafting and disbanded some workers inside Spanish territory, as I didn't want war weariness. Workers in old England and the Old Netherlands all ran to a distant hill near London. I also abandoned cities I thought in danger. Maybe I should have taken the weariness instead, I don't know. Maybe I should have just raised the luxury slider to 90% or something, I don't know. I misread the situation a bit and lost something like 3 to 5 cities on the interturn. I should have just left Spain out. I didn't have any cities revolting, but this situation surely made things worse off than it I would like it. If I had taken them out before rails, maybe they wouldn't have posed such a problem... or if I could have taken out Carthage first, but I really didn't realize how many spots I would need infantry in. I know I can crush them.. but now I've considered abandoning this map and trying for a different histographic game. Spain on pangea means you have to defend *a lot* more territory. On the plus side of things I got Carthage to declare on Spain.
Thing is I kind of liked this map. I had three native luxuries before I declared war and had all of them them for I thought, but I didn't have them all at 10 AD. I didn't use the luxury slider early on, when perhaps I could have. I had very, very little jungle and marsh to clear. But, I really didn't micromanage for happiness during the early wars like I might have, and it took me I believe longer than perhaps could work out on average to spawn a leader. I made some silly military decisions. So, I think I can do better than this map here.
I don't want to get bogged down by perfectionism in this sort of thing. But, Spain just made for a choice I really did NOT want to have around. I thought about trying with 6 seafaring opponents, 6 seafaring opponents+Korea, or 4 scientific opponents and going for The Republic slingshot. I found a map I liked with multiple cows in the first ring. When I got this:
I decided I had a keeper. I'd try for The Republic slingshot and then build the Pyramids. If I missed the Pyramids, I'd take the Hanging Gardens.
I decided I had a keeper. I'd try for The Republic slingshot and then build the Pyramids. If I missed the Pyramids, I'd take the Hanging Gardens.
So, I decided just to take the despotic GA and speed up my expansion via The Pyramids. Hammurabi's spear early on razed one of my cities. I almost quit, but didn't. I managed to not lose any other cities, and soon after I completed The Republic slingshot, then researched Mathematics and Currency, shut research off and entered the middle ages sometime in the 900s BCs. I gifted everyone up, traded Republic around for Monotheism and Feudalism, and no one got Engineering. Oh well. I easily lead in score from quite early on this game. Having more territory than all the other 4 tribes, I signed some RoPs for a little extra cash. When the first one expried with the Babylonians, he had two settlers and two warriors in my territory. I thought "free slaves"! So, I asked Hammurabi to leave, hoping he would declare. With least aggressive AIs, he just left. One the next turn he waltzed in a worker. So, then I remembered to first make silly demands, like to keep asking for 1 gpt. Then I asked him to leave and he declared. Problem came as that I didn't have Chivalry yet and something like 5 horseman. But, with military alliances with everyone else that didn't really pose a problem.
I had tremendously good fortunate in that Babylonian war. I didn't priotize horseman as much as before, prefering more artillery earlier on, and that started at catapults which eventually got upgraded to trebuchets. Hammurabi didn't have iron, so I faced spears, bowmen, and some longbowmen towards the end with my knights. After somewhere around 5 elite victories I spawned a leader. So, the city which actually built the Pyramids swapped to the Heroic Epic soon thereafter. Then came another leader soon after that. Then another leader soon after that. So, I had my capital go for The Pentagon. I didn't get a 4th MGL to rush that, but 3 knight armies, some trebuchets, and some vs. spears, bows, and 2 or 3 longbows at the end makes for an easy war. The map has gotten better in that neither Germany nor Russia have saltpeter... or at least don't have it hooked up yet. I traded away an iron source to Russia for Gunpowder and then researched Chemistry mostly via specialists, and 10% science towards the end. I still beat everyone else there and sold to the juggernaut Persia.
Somehow, even though I've *only* built temples along the borders or where I want a border expansion, I've lead in culture. This resulted in a Persian city flipping to me (I'll get a picture in here for that). It's 70 AD and even though Babylon is off the continent I still have the war going on with them, because they lie on an island somewhere and I don't want to soil my reputation like I did last game. The Pentagon will complete in one turn. I've decided to research to get to Military Tradition as fast as I can, so I research at 60%, luxuries at 40%, with 6 turns for Metallurgy (without a single library). Early on I adopted the policy of getting as many happy citizens in my cities as I could, using some entertainers in corrupt place. While research towards Chemistry this changed a little bit so I could have more scientists (I didn't have money to do deficit research, but since I sold Chemistry to Persia, I do now). Russia has The Great Library. Preferably, I'd like to wait to take that until everyone else (maybe not Babylon) enters the industrial age for their free techs. But, I think I'll want to sign military alliances against them, so Persia doesn't come at me at the wrong time.
At 70 AD I have a score of 2740 with
4 settlers
62 workers
1 warrior (which I didn't realize I had, and will probably upgrade)
10 pikes
9 muskets
22 knights
3 armies
3 medieval infantry (read upgraded warriors)
28 trebuchets.
I had tremendously good fortunate in that Babylonian war. I didn't priotize horseman as much as before, prefering more artillery earlier on, and that started at catapults which eventually got upgraded to trebuchets. Hammurabi didn't have iron, so I faced spears, bowmen, and some longbowmen towards the end with my knights. After somewhere around 5 elite victories I spawned a leader. So, the city which actually built the Pyramids swapped to the Heroic Epic soon thereafter. Then came another leader soon after that. Then another leader soon after that. So, I had my capital go for The Pentagon. I didn't get a 4th MGL to rush that, but 3 knight armies, some trebuchets, and some vs. spears, bows, and 2 or 3 longbows at the end makes for an easy war. The map has gotten better in that neither Germany nor Russia have saltpeter... or at least don't have it hooked up yet. I traded away an iron source to Russia for Gunpowder and then researched Chemistry mostly via specialists, and 10% science towards the end. I still beat everyone else there and sold to the juggernaut Persia.
Somehow, even though I've *only* built temples along the borders or where I want a border expansion, I've lead in culture. This resulted in a Persian city flipping to me (I'll get a picture in here for that). It's 70 AD and even though Babylon is off the continent I still have the war going on with them, because they lie on an island somewhere and I don't want to soil my reputation like I did last game. The Pentagon will complete in one turn. I've decided to research to get to Military Tradition as fast as I can, so I research at 60%, luxuries at 40%, with 6 turns for Metallurgy (without a single library). Early on I adopted the policy of getting as many happy citizens in my cities as I could, using some entertainers in corrupt place. While research towards Chemistry this changed a little bit so I could have more scientists (I didn't have money to do deficit research, but since I sold Chemistry to Persia, I do now). Russia has The Great Library. Preferably, I'd like to wait to take that until everyone else (maybe not Babylon) enters the industrial age for their free techs. But, I think I'll want to sign military alliances against them, so Persia doesn't come at me at the wrong time.
At 70 AD I have a score of 2740 with
4 settlers
62 workers
1 warrior (which I didn't realize I had, and will probably upgrade)
10 pikes
9 muskets
22 knights
3 armies
3 medieval infantry (read upgraded warriors)
28 trebuchets.
Things have gone really well in this game. Knights vs. spears against the Babylonians, then cavs. vs. pikes vs. the Germans, and cavs. vs. pikes vs. the Russians. Talk about child's play. When I captured The Great Library I didn't even learn Physics and no one had it. I guess I should have just traded around and researched via scientists mostly myself. I had a few problems with the Persian counterattack as they had some cavalry and lost a city with the spices I had settled on since I foolishly moved my cannons to bombard out of the city and then used my army to protect them. But, I got it back. I've had cavs. vs. muskets for most of the war, which doesn't go as smoothly as cavs. vs. pikes, but since I have a good number of cavalry armies, it kind of does. It's 620 AD I have a score of 5000 and 57% of the world area. I've got a few turns left on Electricity. I didn't soil my reputation as early as I did, but I still did it before I gifted the AIs into the industrial age, so I didn't have as good of trading opportunities as I would have liked. Persia doesn't have Nationalism yet and only they have any cities to speak of. Some exist on another island (which has two of the luxuries... including ivory... so no one built the Statue of Zeus), but I should handle that well enough later.
The flip I couldn't believe earlier.
My core:
Old Germany and some of my core:
Old Russia:
Old Babylonia:
My current army... may have overdone the cannons, but if I need artillery proper later...
The current front:
The flip I couldn't believe earlier.
My core:
Old Germany and some of my core:
Old Russia:
Old Babylonia:
My current army... may have overdone the cannons, but if I need artillery proper later...
The current front:
So by about 670 AD I had things just about wrapped up with the assisination of Xerxes and the extermination of Persia. The Russians had two cities. I decided them as the one's who would stay, so I built them a landlocked tundra prison. I gifted it away soon after and then walked into their territory. They told me to leave or declare, so I declared. That triggered a mutual protection pact with Hammy. But, Hammy didn't pose any real problems. I couldn't take my cavalry or knight armies over to the island (you can see it in the mini-map), but with some decent vets, I faced maybe 3 or 4 rifles of Hammy's. Goodbye Hammurabi. After that came the Germans. I didn't realize I had RoP raped Russia earlier, so I couldn't easily sign an RoP with him, and for the moment I have a "war" state with Cathy... I don't feel exactly sure what happened there. I know I made peace for a bit... probably something like she asked me to leave and I accidently hit the "forget it *insert explicitive here*" button.
No one researched Music Theory. So, after going Steam Power for a turn, trading for the rest of it, then Electricty, then Replacable Parts, then Sanitation (I managed to trade for Medicine and Nationalism) I researched Music Theory. In 800 AD I just started research on Communism, which I think I'll research all via scientists to get more cash to rush in markets, hospitals, and maybe a few more aqueducts. I stand 8 tiles within the domination limit (which I crossed mid-turn, then went back behind abandoning a tundra town at one point). Maybe I could get more, but that seems plenty close. Actually I see 4 more tiles I might get and use well, but I don't quite trust MapStat as *that* exact. Sorry Bartleby if that disappoints you.
I've cycled through my cities to get growth/specialists how I want it for a good long time now. Maybe I don't have enough workers it says 77, but training more might slow down my growth. I have about 130 cities, so that really sounds like very few workers when I think about, but I've got Replacable Parts also when I think about it, and irrigation goes faster than mining. I've disbanded almost all of my units, except all the armies (though I disbanded one of those... inefficiently as I didn't realize it would give me 100 shields!), so 9 armies left, 2 muskets, 12 knights/30 cavalry all in armies, 77 workers. I planted some forests and chopped for a while, but then I thought it might work out faster to just irrigate first for growth, since that plant/chop/irrigate process takes quite a while. I just finished Smith's Trading Company. I have 9 turns left on Bach's. I have 1 turn left on Newton's University (late game tourist attraction, I guess) and...
I have a score of 6174/6175 (why do the two screens differ?). I checked the 1000 AD for the Large Demi-god map, and I have a higher score than that already... as well as a higher score than the 22k Deity standard Celt game. That doesn't mean I'll beat them for sure, but it sounds really good. In 810 AD I had a score of 6247, so with a rise of 73 points/turn (which I won't keep up, I'll bet), and 344 turns left, I would net 25,112 more points, for a final score over 30k. Sirpleb's calculator puts me at 15,315... but of course I just started the hospital growth phase a few turns ago and have plenty of civil engineers at work currently... so that such a prediction seems low to me makes sense. I don't think I'll hit 30k though.
No one researched Music Theory. So, after going Steam Power for a turn, trading for the rest of it, then Electricty, then Replacable Parts, then Sanitation (I managed to trade for Medicine and Nationalism) I researched Music Theory. In 800 AD I just started research on Communism, which I think I'll research all via scientists to get more cash to rush in markets, hospitals, and maybe a few more aqueducts. I stand 8 tiles within the domination limit (which I crossed mid-turn, then went back behind abandoning a tundra town at one point). Maybe I could get more, but that seems plenty close. Actually I see 4 more tiles I might get and use well, but I don't quite trust MapStat as *that* exact. Sorry Bartleby if that disappoints you.
I've cycled through my cities to get growth/specialists how I want it for a good long time now. Maybe I don't have enough workers it says 77, but training more might slow down my growth. I have about 130 cities, so that really sounds like very few workers when I think about, but I've got Replacable Parts also when I think about it, and irrigation goes faster than mining. I've disbanded almost all of my units, except all the armies (though I disbanded one of those... inefficiently as I didn't realize it would give me 100 shields!), so 9 armies left, 2 muskets, 12 knights/30 cavalry all in armies, 77 workers. I planted some forests and chopped for a while, but then I thought it might work out faster to just irrigate first for growth, since that plant/chop/irrigate process takes quite a while. I just finished Smith's Trading Company. I have 9 turns left on Bach's. I have 1 turn left on Newton's University (late game tourist attraction, I guess) and...
I have a score of 6174/6175 (why do the two screens differ?). I checked the 1000 AD for the Large Demi-god map, and I have a higher score than that already... as well as a higher score than the 22k Deity standard Celt game. That doesn't mean I'll beat them for sure, but it sounds really good. In 810 AD I had a score of 6247, so with a rise of 73 points/turn (which I won't keep up, I'll bet), and 344 turns left, I would net 25,112 more points, for a final score over 30k. Sirpleb's calculator puts me at 15,315... but of course I just started the hospital growth phase a few turns ago and have plenty of civil engineers at work currently... so that such a prediction seems low to me makes sense. I don't think I'll hit 30k though.
Lord Emsworth
Emperor
No, sea don't count towards the Dom limit. And I think the consensus in some other thread here was that they don't count towards territory score either. But, if you can get them worked they net you a happy laborer who feeds itself and scores two base points.
I think the best spots to hook up sea tiles are these headland tiles that extent into the water. The location of the city of Murmansk in the last screenshot of post #74(?) would be nice I think. It would net you 7 workable sea tiles, with only 9 coast tiles.
A one tile island might even net you 12 workable sea tiles with only 8 coast tiles. So that you have 9 tiles that count towards dom, but get to put 20 happy laborers to work.
I think I did see an ocean tile in my territory once, but maybe that was a mod. Hmmm... that's tricky then, since I could accidently trigger the domination limit by a cultural expansion via a coastal city and accidently grabbing an extra coast tile.
I just looked back and saw this post and noticed the date.
Alphabet at 2850BC is very fast. I haven't ever gotten it that fast in a Standard Demi-God game.
