Sword_Of_Geddon
Arbiter of the Sword
Are you doing Gorn or Tholians?
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Star Trek unit preview thread
- Thread starter Flamand
- Start date
Flamand
The Visible Elder!
Yes... we've found some models of those. The Kzinti will also be included.
Sword_Of_Geddon
Arbiter of the Sword
Who are the Kzinti?
Flamand
The Visible Elder!
Catlike humanoids from the animated Star Trek.
Matress_of_evil
Chieftain
Sword_Of_Geddon, the Kzinti seem to be similar to the Lyrans from Starfleet Command 2: Empires at War. 
Since they're from the animated series, and not a "real" episode, they aren't a canon species, Flamand. Anyways, it's your mod, so you can decide who is in and who isn't.
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The Tokorn was a Raider in BOTF. As its' name suggests, it was designed for lightning-quick raiding of enemy shipping and systems.
It was roughly twice as heavily armed as a Ngort class Light Raider, and was twice as fast. In fact, it was one of the fastest ships in the game, capable of matching a Defiant for speed and maneouverability. (Speed 4, whilst most other ships were speed 1 or 2)
Because it is so fast and heavily armed, it is capable or dealing large amounts of damage, whilst being able to dodge enemy fire. It's defense also relies more on speed and maneoverability, rather than shielding and armor - whilst the weaponry is twice as powerful as that of a Ngort, it's shielding is only about 1.5x as strong, and its armor is only about 1.3x as strong.
This is mostly to reduce the cost, however, since it is a Ferengi ship, afterall. Whilst it's systems are roughly double in strength to the Ngort, it is between 3 and 4 times as expensive to build and support.
In your mod, it should definitely be a fast unit, capable of retreating from a losing battle. I think it would also be the equivalent of either a very powerful Privateer, (About 2 thirds as powerful as a D'kora class Marauder if that was also a Privateer) an Ironclad, or at a push, a Destroyer.
It's armament and speed would suit it being a Destroyer well, but defense-wise it would be extremely lacking. This may also mean that being an Ironclad equivalent wouldn't be a perfect fit.
You'll decide on the stats though, so you can adjust them as needed.
Since they're from the animated series, and not a "real" episode, they aren't a canon species, Flamand. Anyways, it's your mod, so you can decide who is in and who isn't.
...
The Tokorn was a Raider in BOTF. As its' name suggests, it was designed for lightning-quick raiding of enemy shipping and systems.
It was roughly twice as heavily armed as a Ngort class Light Raider, and was twice as fast. In fact, it was one of the fastest ships in the game, capable of matching a Defiant for speed and maneouverability. (Speed 4, whilst most other ships were speed 1 or 2)
Because it is so fast and heavily armed, it is capable or dealing large amounts of damage, whilst being able to dodge enemy fire. It's defense also relies more on speed and maneoverability, rather than shielding and armor - whilst the weaponry is twice as powerful as that of a Ngort, it's shielding is only about 1.5x as strong, and its armor is only about 1.3x as strong.
This is mostly to reduce the cost, however, since it is a Ferengi ship, afterall. Whilst it's systems are roughly double in strength to the Ngort, it is between 3 and 4 times as expensive to build and support.
In your mod, it should definitely be a fast unit, capable of retreating from a losing battle. I think it would also be the equivalent of either a very powerful Privateer, (About 2 thirds as powerful as a D'kora class Marauder if that was also a Privateer) an Ironclad, or at a push, a Destroyer.
It's armament and speed would suit it being a Destroyer well, but defense-wise it would be extremely lacking. This may also mean that being an Ironclad equivalent wouldn't be a perfect fit.
You'll decide on the stats though, so you can adjust them as needed.
Flamand
The Visible Elder!
Thorgrimm told me that the Kzinti were considered canon by Gene Rodenberry. So who am I to argue with the Master...?Matress_of_evil said:Since they're from the animated series, and not a "real"they aren't a canon species, Flamand. Anyways, it's your mod, so you can decide who is in and who isn't.
Thanks for the Ferengi info...
Thorgrimm
Senior Elder
Matress, I hate to bust your bubble, But the creator of Star Trek, Gene himself said ANYTHING he directed or produced was canon, INCLUDING the animated series. Only Berman and his butt buddies tried to make that not so. I am always miffed at folks who consider the crap Berman came up with as the only thing canon. I hate to tell you, Gene not Rick was the creator.
Berman's last travesty was so friggin bad, it had to be cancelled. Yes I am talking about Enterprise. They had a chance to make something memorable, but what did they do, Ignore the original series completely. Xindi, and their time war crap was bovine excrement at its worst.
When Enterprise was announced I was excited, now we might find out why Garth of Izar's tactics were required study at the Academy, they could have done so much with the Earth Romulan war. But no Berman had to try and make ST his own. Bastage!
Cheers, Thorgrimm
Berman's last travesty was so friggin bad, it had to be cancelled. Yes I am talking about Enterprise. They had a chance to make something memorable, but what did they do, Ignore the original series completely. Xindi, and their time war crap was bovine excrement at its worst.
When Enterprise was announced I was excited, now we might find out why Garth of Izar's tactics were required study at the Academy, they could have done so much with the Earth Romulan war. But no Berman had to try and make ST his own. Bastage!
Cheers, Thorgrimm
Matress_of_evil
Chieftain
I got the info on the Kzinti from a couple of websites like ex astris scientia and StarTrek.com.
I haven't got a "bubble" as you put it, coz I know that Gene Roddenberry created Trek, and since he died, the franchise is now in the hands of Paramount and Berman. But even based on your own quote, that still means books are not canon Trek. And since they are mentioned pretty much only in the books and the animated show, there isn't much canon evidence to support their existance in Trek.
Anyways, I thought the animated show was a modern thing, so how did Roddenberry direct it?
As much as you guys seem to hate it, what he says goes. But that doesn't mean he's perfect. I don't particularly like some of Berman's ideas on Trek myself.
And from what i've heard, (Doesn't mean it's true though) the fourth season was building up to the Earth-Romulan war, which was gonna be seasons 5 and 6. That's why the Romulans were introduced in the first place.
So basically it is down to the fans themselves, and NOT Berman for all the missed opportunities.
Ok, so seasons 1 and 2 weren't so good, but seasons 3 and 4 were great. The only problem was that so many people had turned off by then, that they were never going to be ratings winners, no matter how good it got. People just didn't give it a chance.
If only more of us fans had been loyal, then the show wouldn't have been cancelled - and then we WOULD have had the Earth-Romulan war.
I carried on watching Enterprise, because no matter how bad it is, it's still Trek. In fact, i'm still watching it, coz they haven't got to the end of season 4 yet here in the UK.
It's only now that Enterprise has ended (At least for you guys
) that people have realised just what it is they're missing out on.
I haven't got a "bubble" as you put it, coz I know that Gene Roddenberry created Trek, and since he died, the franchise is now in the hands of Paramount and Berman. But even based on your own quote, that still means books are not canon Trek. And since they are mentioned pretty much only in the books and the animated show, there isn't much canon evidence to support their existance in Trek.
Anyways, I thought the animated show was a modern thing, so how did Roddenberry direct it?
As much as you guys seem to hate it, what he says goes. But that doesn't mean he's perfect. I don't particularly like some of Berman's ideas on Trek myself.
And from what i've heard, (Doesn't mean it's true though) the fourth season was building up to the Earth-Romulan war, which was gonna be seasons 5 and 6. That's why the Romulans were introduced in the first place.
So basically it is down to the fans themselves, and NOT Berman for all the missed opportunities.
Ok, so seasons 1 and 2 weren't so good, but seasons 3 and 4 were great. The only problem was that so many people had turned off by then, that they were never going to be ratings winners, no matter how good it got. People just didn't give it a chance.
If only more of us fans had been loyal, then the show wouldn't have been cancelled - and then we WOULD have had the Earth-Romulan war.
I carried on watching Enterprise, because no matter how bad it is, it's still Trek. In fact, i'm still watching it, coz they haven't got to the end of season 4 yet here in the UK.
It's only now that Enterprise has ended (At least for you guys
) that people have realised just what it is they're missing out on.
Sword_Of_Geddon
Arbiter of the Sword
Come to mention it I did see Cat aliens in Star Trek Four...I think those were the Kzinti.
Are the Lyrans ships any way similiar to the Kzinti? If they are then maybe you could use the Lyran's ships as Kzinti vessels.
Are the Lyrans ships any way similiar to the Kzinti? If they are then maybe you could use the Lyran's ships as Kzinti vessels.
Flamand
The Visible Elder!
@Matress: I agree with most of what you said... But they had to be careful not to contradict too many established "facts" in this series. That's why making prequels is usually very dangerous... Careful what you say on this subject, Thorgrimm is very passionate on this part...
@Sword: Apparently there were e few Kzinti meshes made, so we'll use those. Dunno about any Lyrian ships. Cat aliens in ST4? Can't seem to remember those... Got any pics?
@Sword: Apparently there were e few Kzinti meshes made, so we'll use those. Dunno about any Lyrian ships. Cat aliens in ST4? Can't seem to remember those... Got any pics?
Sword_Of_Geddon
Arbiter of the Sword
If you watch the movie, at the scenes which take place in the Federation hearings involving Kerk's involvement in the Genesis incident and the Klingon ambassidor demanding that Kerk be executed, among the delegates are Cat aliens. IF you don't believe me, watch the movie and look closely, you will see them..
Flamand
The Visible Elder!
I figured it would be in that scene... But the thing is that the Kzinti are strong enemies of the Feds and I don't see what they would be doing in those hearings...
Edit: found them. You were talking about the Caitans, never heard of them either... http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Caitian
Edit: found them. You were talking about the Caitans, never heard of them either...
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Caitian
Matress_of_evil
Chieftain
If you can use the models, that would make your life easier flamand. The Lyrans were a playable empire, so there are certainly a lot of ships you could use. The Lyrans also employed a special weapon called an ESG - the Expanding Sphere Generator.
Basically, it created a sphere of energy around the ship, which you could use to destroy incoming seeking weapons like missiles and plasma, or even nearby fighters. It could also be used to ram enemy ships - so it was both an offensive and defensive weapon.
Now i'm not saying that the Kzinti should have it, but it would add a bit of spice to the game if they had a weapon/animation like that. Unusual weapons would make the game more fun.
It could even be similar to your Oberth shield animation, except the "shield" would be yellow in colour.
You could give them a HP or defensive bonus when they use it then...
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Thorgrimm, if you're as passionate as Flamand says, then I don't wish to fight over it. Those were just my opinions, and i'm sure you have your own - just as everyone else does.
Anyways, this is a thread about flamands mod, so I doubt he'd want us to spam it. Besides, there's always PM's...
Flamand
The Visible Elder!
Good idea. We'll see what kind of Kzinti model Thor has and maybe we can add some Lyrans as well...
Edit: I checked out the effects on those Lyran ships. Should be easy to make...
Edit: I checked out the effects on those Lyran ships. Should be easy to make...
Sword_Of_Geddon
Arbiter of the Sword
Will they be the same race or separate?
Flamand
The Visible Elder!
Not sure yet, since I never heard of the Lyrans until today...
Thorgrimm
Senior Elder
@Matress, I was 6 years old when I saw my first episode of Trek in 1966. I also remember when there was no Trek but the animated series, and for games Star Fleet Battles by Task Force Games, and Starfleet by Lou Zocchi Games. I love the way Trek has taken off, but I don't think making anything and slapping a sticker on it saying Paramount approved Star Trek is acceptable. I want my Trek to be faithful to the vision Gene had in mind. That is why I take offense by what Berman and Co has done. I mean Enterprise contradicts some of the best TOS episodes such as Space Seed and Balance of Terror.
And I know folks differ on what is and is not canon. What I was trying to say is that Berman and crew have done so much to overturn what Gene had done is what gets my goat. And FYI, Paramount has removed Berman from control of ST. Thank God Paramount has finally wised up to the fact he was strangling ST to death.
@Sword, in the game Matress mentions the Kzinti are called the Mirak due to not obtaining permission from Larry Niven to use the name. So the Kzinti were there in all except the name. Now even though I love Star Fleet Battles, I don't think we should have the Lyrans, as one Kitty race is enough I think.
@ Flamand, I have enough models for the Kzinti for two versions of their fleet. As of now I also have enough Fed and Klingon models for all 4 eras. Most of the other races only have enough for one or two versions of ships. So those races were going to get what is known as refits, the upgrade to compete, but use the same model.
That is if Flamand decides to do it like that.
Cheers, Thorgrimm
And I know folks differ on what is and is not canon. What I was trying to say is that Berman and crew have done so much to overturn what Gene had done is what gets my goat. And FYI, Paramount has removed Berman from control of ST. Thank God Paramount has finally wised up to the fact he was strangling ST to death.
@Sword, in the game Matress mentions the Kzinti are called the Mirak due to not obtaining permission from Larry Niven to use the name. So the Kzinti were there in all except the name. Now even though I love Star Fleet Battles, I don't think we should have the Lyrans, as one Kitty race is enough I think.
@ Flamand, I have enough models for the Kzinti for two versions of their fleet. As of now I also have enough Fed and Klingon models for all 4 eras. Most of the other races only have enough for one or two versions of ships. So those races were going to get what is known as refits, the upgrade to compete, but use the same model.
That is if Flamand decides to do it like that.
Cheers, Thorgrimm
Flamand
The Visible Elder!
I kinda like kitties... 
However one set of kitties is enough, I agree. Maybe we should think a bit on that canine race we were talking about, I forgot the name. We could use those Lyran models for them...
And about those fleets: sounds good to me...
However one set of kitties is enough, I agree. Maybe we should think a bit on that canine race we were talking about, I forgot the name. We could use those Lyran models for them...And about those fleets: sounds good to me...
Thorgrimm
Senior Elder
Flamand, they were called the Carnavon. And if you wish, I know I can get plenty of Lyran models for them. Since there are both SFB and Starfleet Command versions out there.
Cheers, Thorgrimm
Cheers, Thorgrimm
Flamand
The Visible Elder!
Ah yes, that's the one. Consider them included...
