Star Wars: The Mod Strikes Back

@loki: Like I said, all of what I have is currently back home, which is five hours away. I won't have access to it until March probably. Once I do I'll gladly give y'all everything I have, although I won't blame you for not wanting to wait that long. :) In the meantime, I could continue to add stuff as I remember it if you like.

@Bluemofia: You could do that, although I'd say that having the hyperlane stop at the planet is more accurate-- the ship gets pulled into realspace by the gravity well. Although if you expand planetary space out to five tiles all around having the hyperlane go around the edges would probably represent enough of a detour to be accurate. I guess it's ultimately up to the map-maker.
 
I've tried my best to keep up with this thread, but never really got to post much, if ever :hmm: .

I wanted to try and help out as best as I could, and saw the pictures of the V-19 Torrent Fighter that were posted. Well....
torrentfigh.gif


This is my first ever unit. I've tinkered and made some models before, but this is my first all-out unit attempt. I've just modelled it so far, and before I make the .flc, I wanted to have some feedback. I'm wanting to make sure that all the proportions are right, all the colors are right, all that stuff.

I am also probably going to make all the basic animations, but include two attacks, one as a bombard and one as a regular laser attack.
 
cool unit. welcome to the team or whatever
 
Civanator said:
Just a suggestion for you guys here, maybe have coast be the hyperspace lanes? have it only require 1 movement point, and sea and ocean be the deepspace parts and require more movement points.

I agree... :goodjob: That's what I'm doing in my galaxy map.
 
Life interupted, so I don't have the time to give you my unit in a timely manner. I was having problems trying on the palette, probably just because I don't know the ins and outs of palette working...

So here are my files, for anyone to work on. I was using OpenFX, so they are in that format, but I think I could export to something else if you want it that way.
 

Attachments

Personally, I'd favor one-tile planets, for a number of reasons.

First, on any planet larger than this:

Planet3.bmp


there are tiles onto which you cannot land troops from space. While larger planets may allow some actual maneuvering of ground forces to attack, such maneuvering is effectly pointless when there are gigantic ships that can rain turbolaser fire from orbit. While the movies certainly don't apply any military principles, they do illustrate something accurately - most battles would either be low-level guerrilla warfare on an enemy-controlled planet (which Civ3 can't model effectively) or single, large-scale confrontations between armies that are resolved in one battle. The reason for this is simple: the only thing preventing the side with space superiority from simply destroying enemy forces from orbit is unwillingness to inflict whatever collateral damage would result. In TESB, they could have brought down the Hoth shield from orbit, but the bombardment required to do so would have also flattened everything under the shield, including Luke. So the use of ground troops was to take out the shield, after which the Imperials have won even without having superior ground forces, because they don't have to worry (as much) about collateral damage.

(Enter planetary ion cannon to break the blockade.)

Thus land battles are for control of whatever installations on the ground prevent orbital bombardment, and as soon as the attacker destroys or gains control of such installations, he wins. Of course, urban areas could hold out more effectively, but it would be permanently under siege.

Now, this has established that it's preferable to be no larger than the picture above, but that's not an argument for one-tile planets. In fact, the four- or eight-tile planets have the advantage that they can represent control of the non-urban areas. (Of course, for a planet like Coruscant this would be bad, since there ARE no non-urban areas.) In addition, they allow multiple resources per planet, and varied terrain. This, I think, is a disadvantage.

My second point is this: everything about a planet, including varied terrain, etc. can be represented with a single tile more effectively than with multiple tiles. Here's how it would work:

Each land terrain type (= planet type) would have the same stats, so that the city built on it would only have the basic yield from a city tile (trade may be an exception), and the space tiles produce no food, shields, or trade. From this, a large number of custom improvements or wonders can be added, one for each planet. These determine the base stats of the planet. Food is irrelevent, because the city cannot grow beyond pop 1. The "pop points" would not describe the population of the planet. Each wonder would have a certain value for the factory field (can't remember what it's called right now, and I don't have access to the editor), which determines exactly how many shields the planet actually produces (if the wonder has a value of 6, it would produce 4 base shield, 1 + 300%*1). As a side note, something like a shipyard or a factory would add a constant number of shields to a planet, which is useful. For some planets the wonder could have other effects, too. Trade could be increased in this fashion, as well, though it'd be more difficult and require as many new buildings as you wanted to add arrows, unless you can have negative upkeep.

Each world would have a "population resource", such as Human or Mon Calamari or Bothan or Corellian. Yes, Corellians are human, but what this allows is for Corellia, and it alone, to build various units, especially starships. Human worlds would build human infantry, Bothan worlds Bothan infantry, etc., which for the most part would have few or no differences. Combine this with civ-specific units, and the Imperials can't recruit Stormtroopers from Mon Calamari. Likewise, the Rebellion or New Republic won't be building Star Cruisers over Kuat, or Star Destroyers over Sullust. Many units wouldn't be restricted on this basis - you could construct an X-Wing or TIE Fighter anywhere. This also rules out any resource trading, but I think any such resources added to a mod would be contrived and have little basis in Star Wars (or, if they did, be exaggerations like having "Lightsaber crystals" as a strategic resource).

I have more to say on this and other topics, but I have to go now. More later.
 
Here are some ideas I've come up with for deepspace-hyperspace-planetary space.

These examples are pretty much the same, though the second one allows you more of the ability to completely by pass a planetary system.

I think we need a distinction between the space that would surround planets (automatically coast) and the space lanes you travel between systems on. Around planets, movement costs need to be higher than hyperspace lanes to allow for manuevering and actual battles.

starwars.jpg


starwars2.jpg
 
Nice ideas Skywalker. I've always favoured one-tile planets and unproductive space as well. You can tweek the output of the base tile (for example, "grassland" can give you 8 food, 4 shields and 4 trade) to give you substantial production, etc. After that you can use specialists and city improvements to increase food-production-trade (since only one person will be working).
 
Great ideas Skywalker.


I think, however, that the planets shoudl not be able to build any units themselves, instead they should build improvements that automatically produce units. Instead of a city building an X-wing, the city would build an X-wing plant, which would then produce X-wings every so often. I think that the cities hould be able to grow past level one, but whenever they make a factory (ex: TIE fighter plant) there should be a population point loss. This simulates the amount of people needed to work in the factory. A shipyard that produced ISD's would need more workers than one producing small freighters. This doesn't just affect unit producing improvements. Industrial improvements would work just the same. You could build one of the solar mirrors (from Wedge's Gamble) and it would require just one population. A mining operation however, would require many more people.
All of the basic terrain types would have 10 food, so that an undeveloped city could support 5 people. No city could have more than 5 people, and no improvement would require more than 4 pop points.
The numbers are just random, it's the idea that is important.

Now we get to infantry.
There in no Factory that produces infantry. Instead, Infantry are drafted from the city. The type of infantry you get depends on what resource the city has. As many infantry as you want can be drafted from a city in one turn, but that slows industrial production.

I also think that only presicion bombing should be allowed. This means that Starfighters can only destroy destroy buildings and kill civilians, not injure the defnders. However, they can destroy defensive installations such as turbolaser batteries and sheild generators. This way they can help with the battle but not win it on their own.

in Episode V, Vader says that the shield can hold off their bombardment.
 
Nice ideas Skywalker. I've always favoured one-tile planets and unproductive space as well. You can tweek the output of the base tile (for example, "grassland" can give you 8 food, 4 shields and 4 trade) to give you substantial production, etc. After that you can use specialists and city improvements to increase food-production-trade (since only one person will be working).

Since you will be determining planet production individually, as two planets represented by the same terrain type can have different production levels (e.g. Corellia and Bakura), having variations in production among terrain types would not just complicate things, but make factories, shipyards, etc. have different effects on different types of planet.

Here are some ideas I've come up with for deepspace-hyperspace-planetary space.

These examples are pretty much the same, though the second one allows you more of the ability to completely by pass a planetary system.

I think we need a distinction between the space that would surround planets (automatically coast) and the space lanes you travel between systems on. Around planets, movement costs need to be higher than hyperspace lanes to allow for manuevering and actual battles.

Ah, the perfect lead-in to another of my ideas (I actually started thinking about this years ago, but never could overcome my laziness enough to start working on implementing them). First, the planets should be a bit farther away IMO. Star systems should be disproportionately large, because that allows for interesting battles within them, in addition to the maneuvering between star systems. But that's a minor point.

Hyperspace lanes should be one tile - no more - wide, and have a LARGE defensive penalty (which would be achieved by giving all other terrains a large defense bonus, and adjusting the defensive values of all starships accordingly). This means that you can't simply block a hyperspace lane by piling a bunch of ships in it unless you're willing to lose a lot of ships and probably not stop up the lane anyway. There should be three types of space - hyperspace, in-system, and orbit. Either "in-system" would also be deep space, or deep space would actually be blocked off (which I prefer). Orbit would have a move cost of something like 20, hyperspace would have a cost of 100, and in-system between 50 and 25. All/most ships have a move of 100, and hyperdrive-enabled ones ignore the penalty for hyperspace. Hyperspace-capable fighters can rebase, TIE's and such cannot. Systems are modeled with orbit (coast) only being the tiles directly adjacent to planets, most of the space being in-system, and hyperspace lanes starting and ending at a bit of a distance from any planets. To show long chains of hyperspace routes (like the Hydian Way) the lane would end right at the edge of a planet's orbit, so that someone in control of several planets in sequence could make multiple jumps in one turn.

in Episode V, Vader says that the shield can hold off their bombardment.

No. They can't get through the shield without causing significant damage to the base underneath. I'll cite later, when I can find a transcript.

Again, more later, cuz I have to go.
 
This is directly from the transcript:

VADER: What is it, General?

VEERS: My lord, the fleet has moves out of light-speed. Com-Scan has
detected an energy field protecting an area around the sixth planet of
the Hoth system. The field is strong enough to deflect any
bombardment.


VADER: (angrily) The Rebels are alerted to our presence. Admiral Ozzel
came out of light-speed too close to the system.


You could also have wonders that produce units even more often. Such as: KDY could produce ISDs fairly quickly.

I think that the resources found on a planet should have the same name as the planet to avoid confusion.

Is there actually someone out there taking our ideas and putting them into a mod?
 
Regarding the Hoth shield - from The Empire Strikes Back Radio Dramatization:

"He's as clumsy as he is stupid," Vader cut in, breathing heavily. "A clean bombardment is impossible through their energy field."

i.e. a bombardment that would take down the shield would cause significant collateral damage and likely kill Luke.
 
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