Start Bias

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KahunaGod

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I really dont understand this start bias thing in the advanced start menu. So far, my fav civ to try to play is Rome, and after testing multiple starts (9), I have discovered a few things about what Firaxis thinks of Rome.

1. Always near a polar region.
2. Always surrounded by desert.
3. Siam, Askia, France are always closest neighbors.
4. There are no hills in Rome.

Anybody else gotten any weird results from the start bias?

Also, anyone know where there is a comprehensive discussion from Firaxis on what the advanced start options mean? Like "legendary start" or "sparse" (i cant tell the difference)? Or how does world age affect the maps?

I have been trying for a month now to find something about this game to like, and I am still coming away with more questions. Hopefully, someone can clear these up for me.

Thanks
 
I've never played with start bias on. I always disable it. I'd rather avoid having to be near a certain type of terrain every time I play a certain civ.
 
Flipping between pangea, fractal and archipeligo. Game 10, same thing. SOuthern pole, lots of desert near me (surrounding me). Got new neighbors this time tho, which was nice at least.

BTW - Deluxe Edition, Huge, All Civs, 22 City States
 
Not every civ has a start bias.

Only a few do, and it's related to Unique units, abilities or buildings.

Aztecs start near jungle areas. Iroquois have forests. Arabia has deserts (for the double oil bit).

I can't remember some of the others.

It has no influence on stuff like neighbors and such. Rome does not have a start bias set for it, IIRC.

You can see it in the scripts and lua for the game if you are tweaking stuff with modbuddy.
 
Honestly, I think there is a bug/bugs with the civ placement on huge maps at the moment. I think that's the problem. Would it be satisfactory to play a Large map instead? Large maps are still pretty big.

Can I suggest running the game in debug mode and generating a map a few times (with same settings), and having a look at the results? Certainly when I did this on the Earth map on huge, I kept seeing weird things like city states starting 3 tiles from civ capitals, or a bunch of city states being in a strangely straight line (though it may have been pure chance).
 
The Earth map has a few problems from what I've seen, but I haven't noticed anything strange really playing on the other maps.
 
I've had some games where the closest civ is literally 10 hexs away, and others where I'm the only one on a continent at least 35 hexs by 25. Something must be bugged with civ placement. All on the same map type/settings BTW
 
After reading the other thread linked by SevenSpirits, I am wondering if the problem really is not having any start bias, either for or against. Since I play with everey civ, that means large chunks of map are going to be "claimed" by certian civs, or more specifically, avoided by some certian civs. That will leave all the other civs with whatever left over pickings are available. Which might lead to my Romans starting near a polar region surrounded by desert.

Will try some large maps and see.
 
Found some new oddities in the advanced game generation, that might help explain the general weirdness. You can select up to 22 random civilizations to play in the single player game, but the total number of civs actually in the game is 20. Not sure what happens to the left over 2. I dont know why, but I just decided to make a count and then went, HUH!?


edit: 2 more starts with Rome. One with only 12 civs. Still got desert both times. I am about to give up.
 
This is based on the comments and data inside the XML file (Assets/Gameplay/XML/Civilizations/CIV5Civilizations.xml).

The start bias just chooses the location on the map, it does not influence map generation itself.

There are 4 different start bias categories, a civilization can only belong in one category:

* Start along Ocean
* Start along River
* Start in specific Region
* Avoid specific Region

The start biases for the specific civilizations are the following:

Civilization Start bias
---------------------------------------
England Ocean
Ottoman Ocean
America River
Arabia Desert
Aztec Jungle
India Grass
Iroquois Forest
Russia Tundra
Egypt Avoid Jungle and Forest
Siam Avoid Forest
Songhai Avoid Tundra

All others don't have a start bias, as far as I can tell.

Source: http://gaming.stackexchange.com/que...t-is-the-starting-bias-for-different-factions
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Legendary start means every starting location on the map will be surrounded by resources. Meaning everyone's capitols will be amazingly good. Sparse means there are few resources around the world. This is what I play on, it makes trading more important, and allows for a monopoly.

I've played a bunch of games as Songhai, and every game i have been RIGHT next to France, with siam and india being next, then greece and rome. So it's not just you.

Also, with the civs that don't have a start bias, depending on the maps you play, it's conceivable that their start bias is wherever every other start bias isn't. So like, if you're playing rome, depending on the map and the other civs, you might just default a tundra starting location because every other civ is hard coded to avoid it.
 
Abraxis posted basically what I was saying. You guys should stop beating yourselves over the head with it!

LegioCorvus said:
I've yet to get jungle near the Aztecs.

I'm sure there are more factors at play than just the start bias.
Click to expand...

Are you changing some other settings, like rainfall or world age? Those both also effect the presence of jungles. I've played three (maybe four?) games as Aztec and I've had Jungle every time.
 
KahunaGod said:
Hey PawelS, READ the thread..........and then maybe post.
Click to expand...

If you flip a coin 100 times, and you get heads every single time, you know what the odds are going to be that you get heads on your next flip? The exact same as the first time.

He's right. Rome has no start bias in it's civ data. I have played as Rome and not been near a desert. If you're actually ending up near a desert over and over, then I challenge you find some reason for it. But writing it off as 'another fail for Civ 5!' is goofy.
 
Yeah, your right. Obviously my PC doesnt compute random generators correctly or something. Or maybe I am cursed, or God hates me, or the Devil hates me, or....maybe.......17 times in a row now points to a major issue in the map generators......but no......couldnt be that. Couldn't possibly. I mean, its FAR more likely to roll one in a million(guessing) 17 times in a row than for there to be an issue in Firaxis' map generator, right?!

edit: stuff deleted
 
I couldn't tell you the problem, but I've played a lot of maps and haven't had anything amiss about the start locations. Some locations are better than others.

Next time I start up Civ, I'll make sure to use your exact same settings and see what I get, then post back here!
 
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