Steam Review Bombing

[AD1730]

In all the conversations I've had about this leading up to release, the main argument I've heard, too, come down to "quality" and "production values".

Speaking of production values, I've seen people saying that they can hear people typing and coughing in the background of some of the age transition screens and that the Gwendoline Christie audio is poor quality. Anyone have personal experience with this?

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Speaking of production values, I've seen people saying that they can here people typing and coughing in the background of some of the age transition screens and that the Gwendoline Christie audio is poor quality. Anyone have personal experience with this?

i’ve also been told that the narrator doesn’t narrate leader screens anymore?

 

[Sagax]

i’ve also been told that the narrator doesn’t narrate leader screens anymore?

Sort of. The leader screen (or more accurately- loading screen) text now consists of three parts:

1. A fluff intro about the new age, and how your civ enters the stage.
2. A more detailed narrative about your leader.
3. A more detailed narrative about your civ.

Gwendoline only narrates the first part. Which is a notable step back compared to previous games, but IMO you can see that the whole loading screen was not designed for more than that. Parts 2 and 3 are written like dry Wiki articles, so even with narration you wouldn’t get much enjoyment out of them.

 

[Gorbles]

idk if this is controversial but the UI issue is very obviously caused by the need to make the game console compatible

I think making assumptions about what happens internally in games development is kinda futile.

Not only do we not know, we're likely to never know unless Firaxis lift the lid and explain what went on. "console gaming" is the eternal choice from the PC crowd when it comes to inventing reasons, and while it can seem sensible, it's not but speculation.

UI criticism is stronger by itself, instead of being yoked to "because consoles". Consoles don't mandate or even incentivise a lack of detail. When attached to a TV the real estate can be more expansive, not less. Hover states and long presses are very doable.

Would work have to be done to make sure everything on a PC display fits / is viewable on the inbuilt Nintendo Switch display? Sure. That's the only design requirement I can think of (which still doesn't explain the relatively muted theming and lack on contrast in a bunch of places).

(I do a lot of UI work for a living, as part of the software I work on. I work with accessibility consultants and actual designers, and honestly for the first time I want to see - free time willing - what mods are possible with VII in this regard)

 

[Luddify]

And the civ loading screen itself looks like an Angelfire web page from 1996. How in the world does stuff like this make it out the door?

 

[Graethyenne]

Why? Even if it's hyperbolic, It's also their opinion that the UI is "legitimately terrible" or that it's the "worst UI ever and Firaxis should be ashamed. " Surely we're not going to discount these reviews because they tried to pass off a subjective opinion as "objective" right?



Regardless of what the industry standard is. Most people don't want to buy mediocre games at $70-80

Well....*shrug* maybe I'm the crazy one, but it always bothers me, regardless of context, when someone is either unable or unwilling to distinguish between their subjective feelings and objective reality. So, yeah, I probably do, fairly or unfairly, downgrade any response "passed off as objective". And I probably always will.

On the second matter - 90% of everything is crap. Movies, music, tv, games, books, etc. So, not to circle back to objective versus subjective, but it is pretty hard to call Civ 7 meh, mid, crap, mediocre or whatever other euphemism is popular with the sub 25s for "clearly of below average quality". Because average is....a lot worse than most of think, because don't even engage with the bottom half of whatever it is we are talking about. So I guess calling "subjectively mediocre compared to games I like better" is fine(?) but drains a lot of the meaning out of the word. To the point where we might better off with people sticking to expressing opinions not dressed up as facts. YMMV

 

[TheGrayFox]

I think making assumptions about what happens internally in games development is kinda futile.

Not only do we not know, we're likely to never know unless Firaxis lift the lid and explain what went on. "console gaming" is the eternal choice from the PC crowd when it comes to inventing reasons, and while it can seem sensible, it's not but speculation.

UI criticism is stronger by itself, instead of being yoked to "because consoles". Consoles don't mandate or even incentivise a lack of detail.

Yeah except for the fact we've already had this conversation and that Ed Beach himself can already be quoted verbatim saying that the current map size and multiplayer limitations were in fact because the game was being designed with lower specs of consoles like the switch, cross play, and multiplatform release in mind.

Devoloping simultanouesly for a multiplatform release HAS effected the end product we've recieved on the PC

 

[Thenewwwguy]

https://www.reddit.com/r/civ/s/fn86Jprmhd

this one is insane. genuinely feels hard to not see this as corners being cut

 

[AD1730]

https://www.reddit.com/r/civ/s/fn86Jprmhd

this one is insane. genuinely feels hard to not see this as corners being cut

I'm not going to say corners were being cut yet. Things slip through the cracks on big productions (i.e. Starbucks cups in a Game of Thrones scene). But I do think it is pretty crazy that the sound designers didn't hear it.

 

[Gorbles]

Yeah except for the fact we've already had this conversation and that Ed Beach himself can already be quoted verbatim saying that the current map size and multiplayer limitations were in fact because the game was being designed with lower specs of consoles like the switch, cross play, and multiplatform release in mind.

Devoloping simultanouesly for a multiplatform release HAS effected the end product we've recieved on the PC

What does this have to do with the UI?

Where did I say there had been zero impact on the game as a whole?

 

[TreVor_ish]

What does this have to do with the UI?

It's usually designed towards the least comfortable machine to operate with.
Setup screen alone already indicates it was designed towards the likes of Switch. (lack of drop down)

 

[Gorbles]

It's usually designed towards the least comfortable machine to operate with.
Setup screen alone already indicates it was designed towards the likes of Switch. (lack of drop down)

Mobile phones can handle dropdowns. I've literally implemented them. Compatible with native components, too.

(you tend not to because there are natively-styled components for that functionality, but it's more than doable)

I've shared more than a few personal criticisms of the current UI. I'm glad Firaxis are looking to improve it. But I also like to (gently!) push back on the "consoles bad" mantra because I have firsthand experience of (non-games) cross-platform UI work. It's not an appeal to authority - it's more that I'm saying that Firaxis can improve this for all players - not just PC players.

 

[TreVor_ish]

Mobile phones can handle dropdowns. I've literally implemented them. Compatible with native components, too.

(you tend not to because there are natively-styled components for that functionality, but it's more than doable)

I've shared more than a few personal criticisms of the current UI. I'm glad Firaxis are looking to improve it. But I also like to (gently!) push back on the "consoles bad" mantra because I have firsthand experience of (non-games) cross-platform UI work. It's not an appeal to authority - it's more that I'm saying that Firaxis can improve this for all players - not just PC players.

I didn't say it's not compatible.
I said it's easier to operate arrows and scrolling with touch screen or a controller then a drop list. Especially when more options are gonna be added to them in the future.

 

[TheGrayFox]

What does this have to do with the UI?

Where did I say there had been zero impact on the game as a whole?

I think exactly like with map sizes and multiplayer, the UI is as simplistic, unititive, and uninformative as it is here because Firaxis aimed for a multi-platform, crossplay, and controller support enabled VII at launch instead of giving us the best product possible on PC first and foremost.

The only other alternative is pure incompetence

 

[TreVor_ish]

I think exactly like with map sizes and multiplayer, the UI is as simplistic, unititive, and uninformative as it is here because Firaxis aimed for a multi-platform, crossplay, and controller support enabled VII at launch instead of giving us the best product possible on PC.

The only other alternative is pure incompetence

Kinda ironic when I recall being bashed when said we gonna have small maps because of Tegra X1.
Wonder how the net code behaves in the crossplay. (sure, game is live just for a couple of hours, but ppl paid already)

 

[Gorbles]

I didn't say it's not compatible.
I said it's easier to operate arrows and scrolling with touch screen or a controller then a drop list. Especially when more options are gonna be added to them in the future.

The number of taps required is the same for each component. Scaling the size of the touch point vs. clicks is pretty straightforward these days. The sticking point is the number of options. Scrolling fields get more useful the more options you have (but you'll still want to embed a search if you have 50 options or more).

Have you tried interacting with a date widget on any semi-modern site? The thing that pops up on iOS is a native widget. Three scrolling fields; day, month and year.

That's just one example.

Like I said, nobody's going to know for sure. Maybe it was because of the console release(s). I don't think it was, and I don't want to keep banging on about it. I've given my reasoning, and if it's not convincing enough, that's absolutely fair. I don't have the answer either. I just hope we see it improved.

I think exactly like with map sizes and multiplayer, the UI is as simplistic, unititive, and uninformative as it is here because Firaxis aimed for a multi-platform, crossplay, and controller support enabled VII at launch instead of giving us the best product possible on PC first and foremost.

The only other alternative is pure incompetence

Agree to disagree on all claims then!

 

[TreVor_ish]

The number of taps required is the same for each component.

Have you tried interacting with a date widget on any semi-modern site? The thing that pops up on iOS is a native widget. Three scrolling fields; day, month and year.

So, are You saying that the three scrolling fields from that widget are same size as a Civilization Advanced Setup Menu? Really?

 

[Gorbles]

So, are You saying that the three scrolling fields from that widget are same size as a Civilization Advanced Setup Menu? Really?

I'm saying a lot of things are down to the specifics of implementation. Sorry - I edited a bit more detail into my post while you were posting.

As an aside, "number of taps" and "size" are two different metrics.

 

[TreVor_ish]

I'm saying a lot of things are down to the specifics of implementation.

And that I can agree on.

However the specifics for UI on CIVII were - has to work everywhere - do it - allegedly. (I've heard something like this before)

The size comparison stands. Simply because of different sizes of different options being quite a few pixels away from each other.
It's just easier without drop down implemented for the machines that do not use a mouse as a default pointer.

 

[ls612]

It matters less why the UI is bad and more that it is bad.