Steam's recently modified user agreement

Status
Not open for further replies.
I don't think it is legal, (to change the user agreement) if there's no other way to run the application without steam.

It is legal to offer a new agreement as long as you accept the agreement. The question is whether there is a remedy if you refuse to accept. I suspect there was a provision in the original agreement that the terms could be modified and you agreed to it at the time. If that's the case, there's probably no remedy. You still got to license the game up to this point so they could claim they held up their end of the bargain.

Not being a law student or anything like that, I believe, for instance, 2F paragraph 3 is unenforceable by Steam, even if you would have to take them to court to sell or rent a game (you could transfer reproductions without their permission, but it would be illegal unless you transfer it to the person you sold/gave the original to...and I believe it would actually need to be done in that case).

It's been about 2 years since I took a Contracts class (although I am a law student), I'm pretty sure non-transferable license agreements are perfectly valid. To give an example, if you're renting an apartment and the lease says that you can't sublet the apartment, that's enforceable. The unfortunate thing here is that the product is packaged and delivered as if it's actually sold when it isn't. The fact that it's a lump sum fee for a lifetime rental goes even further to look like a sale. But game companies, music companies, etc., are very careful to make sure that it isn't a sale. And rental agreements are perfectly legal.
 
I spotted a few people saying Steam changing the user agreement is "unlawful" or "not legal". If that is true then do something about it. Go to a lawyer, get advice, write a letter to Valve and point it out to them......

At least or here there's no need, because the German consumer assistance office has taken action against Valve due to that change in the EULA (google translation).
They have time til today to sign a declaration to cease and desist. Let's see what happens further.
 
so when is steam going to start asking for my fingerprints, medical records, and a DNA sample?
 
so when is steam going to start asking for my fingerprints, medical records, and a DNA sample?

After it has been implemented into the next playstation.
No joke.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-09-24-sony-patents-biometric-data-identification-technology
Sony has filed a patent on a bizarre contraption that will allow its devices to recognise users based on their biometric data.
[...]
The report noted that these biometric sensors would include "fingerprint sensors, hand sensors, face recognition systems, iris scanners retinal scanners, voice pattern analyzers, and DNA analyzers."
 
It's been about 2 years since I took a Contracts class (although I am a law student), I'm pretty sure non-transferable license agreements are perfectly valid. To give an example, if you're renting an apartment and the lease says that you can't sublet the apartment, that's enforceable. The unfortunate thing here is that the product is packaged and delivered as if it's actually sold when it isn't. The fact that it's a lump sum fee for a lifetime rental goes even further to look like a sale. But game companies, music companies, etc., are very careful to make sure that it isn't a sale. And rental agreements are perfectly legal.

I think these kinds of things end up being very very specific sometimes. I'm fairly sure that the first sale doctrine should protect people that bought a physical copy, but it gets really hairy when its a download, simply due to the fact that when this kind of thing was decided...I'm not even sure internet existed at that point.

That is an issue with law all together being behind the times, but often the spirit of the law is reapplied in these situations. For instance, if you hit the rear of someone's car, it is your fault. If, however, that person is driving recklessly in reverse and you hit him in the rear, no court is going to say it's your fault. The spirit wins out (even though I'm sure most states have 30 pages worth of law defining this now).

If you do simply rent from the owner, you can be restricted from these things, which may well be the case for people that just downloaded (and just another reason to get your hands on a physical copy of anything you care to keep for several years), which would lead to two groups, those that bought a physical copy of the game (and/or expansion) and those that did not.

Again, I'm not totally sure about how the law would apply to these things.

The legality of it doesn't even really concern me personally (I have only ever sold 1 game in my life and regularly go back to play games 20 years later), but I can understand concerns over it (and it does concern me that more and more "copyright" is becoming "authorprotection"), among other potential issues with these types of agreements.

The fact that Steam is so...blaurgh, for lack of any word at all, is enough to make me hope Civ6 doesn't use it so I can just uninstall it and never look back (and would keep me from buying it if it does use it), but then it goes back to what I said before, if you don't agree, the best thing to do is probably show it with your money and take future purchases elsewhere.
 
one thing that i have learned from studying history is that fascism has never harmed anyone and governments and corporations have never abused their power.

i for one salute our new robot overlords
 
Another important point is to consider who the majority of users of Steam are. Chances are 90% they are young gameplayers who just want to play. They don`t care about a boring wall of text contract. How many of these 90% are going to stop and read the user agreement? Almost 0%, most will just click `yes` to get rid of it and play. they won`t complain until something directly happens to them and their game. Steam makers KNOW this.

That's also why courts have traditionally looked at such agreements with a stricter scruitiny that contracts that you can edit and come to terms on. User agreements will hold up in courts most of the time, but there are certainly cases where the courts have declared that because a user couldn't negotiate certain terms of a contract, that that agreement was invalid.
 
civ 6 is going to literally just be a copy of farmville and require a monthly subscription fee/retina scan

video games are over


why stop there though, how about requiring toasters and refrigerators to be connected to the internet to function
 
Ugh I hate Steam - Little things like this irk me, but as long as there is nothing major changed thats all they will do, irk me.
---
But what can I do about it - I have to live with it to play what I want - So I will
 
Actually, I believe there is a way to have bought Civ 5, played it, and keep playing it without agreeing to the new agreement.

Open up Steam and switch to OFFLINE mode. Once you've done that, Steam won't add any upgrades, nor will it require you to have internet access. I'm fairly certain that this prevents it from asking you about the new user agreement (which would only come up the next time you began in online mode at which point it would catch up all the patches, etc.)
 
Actually, I believe there is a way to have bought Civ 5, played it, and keep playing it without agreeing to the new agreement.

Open up Steam and switch to OFFLINE mode. Once you've done that, Steam won't add any upgrades, nor will it require you to have internet access. I'm fairly certain that this prevents it from asking you about the new user agreement (which would only come up the next time you began in online mode at which point it would catch up all the patches, etc.)

Offline mode only works when you have connected to Steam online first, and it only works while steam is running. So if you turn off your computer, say goodbye to offline mode.

I think it will be interesting in this age of authoritarianism how Steam increases their user-specific license agreements to make it virtually impossible to allow someone else to play the same copy of the game. I don't think the current state is going too far, as it doesn't really invade your privacy. Anything else will probably be too extreme.

Remember, the goal of these companies is to make money, and creating static user agreements is just another way for companies like Steam to make money. If we all boycott the system when things go too extreme, we would be able to stop privacy invasion once and for all. WHO'S WITH ME?! :deal: :gripe::gripe::gripe:
 
Offline mode only works when you have connected to Steam online first, and it only works while steam is running. So if you turn off your computer, say goodbye to offline mode.

That part is not true. I reboot often and stay in offline mode. When the computer restarts you get a dialog with the option to 'Go Online' or 'Start in Offline Mode'. Unless there is a major update I want I always use offline mode.
 
Seriously, if you've got a good enough system for it why not just run Steam in a Virtual Machine instance that doesn't have access to the Internet? Then you effectively have a "frozen" off-line copy of Steam and CIV5. No worries about pushed patches, changed EULAs, or whatever.

- Marty Lund
 
I know that Steam is not worth the hassle for me. I am of the older generation of gamers (played with the NES and the SNES when I was very young (current at the time)) (thus having no friends who use Steam) and I do not mind lugging physical copies of games. I read the terms and conditions carefully. I like to borrow, sell, and trade used games, especially if it is a game that I have already beaten or one that I got bored of after a few hours of playing. I am fundamentally opposed to most Steam games for ideological reasons. Yes, games on Steam can have deep discounts, but the Civ V Campaign Edition on the App Store (Mac only) also has deep discounts (and is 100% Steam-free). This is why I often recommend Civ V fans who loathe Steam to get a Mac and play the Campaign Edition (though I am planning to get a MacBook Pro next year).
 
Seriously, if you've got a good enough system for it why not just run Steam in a Virtual Machine instance that doesn't have access to the Internet? Then you effectively have a "frozen" off-line copy of Steam and CIV5. No worries about pushed patches, changed EULAs, or whatever.

- Marty Lund
That is really a great idea! Then you can just back-up your VM to be able to restore it whenever you need.

But there is a great downside: you will need online mode if you need to install new games, expansions and patches.
 
Offline mode only works when you have connected to Steam online first, and it only works while steam is running. So if you turn off your computer, say goodbye to offline mode.

I think it will be interesting in this age of authoritarianism how Steam increases their user-specific license agreements to make it virtually impossible to allow someone else to play the same copy of the game. I don't think the current state is going too far, as it doesn't really invade your privacy. Anything else will probably be too extreme.

Remember, the goal of these companies is to make money, and creating static user agreements is just another way for companies like Steam to make money. If we all boycott the system when things go too extreme, we would be able to stop privacy invasion once and for all. WHO'S WITH ME?! :deal: :gripe::gripe::gripe:

Pretty much this, but the problem is exactly what people think is too far.

I think it's too far to restrict resale, but as it doesn't directly affect me, I grit my teeth and go on.

Imagine in 5 years they use facial recognition to sign on to your account before you play. Too far? Some people will say their picture is all over the internet anyway, so what's wrong with it? Others will say it's too extreme.

Two years later you have to keep your webcam hooked up so only you, not anyone else, can play your game (before it was just signing in, now its the whole time playing). Too far? For some yes, for others, no.

A few years after that, new keyboards detect your fingerprints as a security measure for computers. Now your fingerprints need to match to play, meaning they will also be on file. Too far? Again, some people who lasted this far say it's enough and others grin and bare it.

It is, unfortunately, a question of speed, as well. For me, growing up on an MES and very clearly remembering getting an SNES as a child, I'm very hard pressed to buy anything that doesn't come with a physical copy. My stepchild thinks its normal, however.

Maybe in a few years, more restriction will leave her in my place, but the younger crowd will grow up in a world where that's normal.

If it's only too far, too extreme, for a few people at a time, everyone else slowly gets weened onto the slightly more extreme system, and there are never enough people to stand up at once.

In 1774 in the United States, government was seen as a threat...to those in the government! Jefferson had a messenger and a secretary. The White House staff today is over 5000 people (not all of them involved in politics, but neither of Jefferson's assistants probably were either). It doesn't take long for people to get used to a new norm and for that to be pushed, which becomes a new norm, which gets pushed, etc.

The sad truth is that people are unlikely to make a stand. The demise of Steam is likely to be a similar service that is more user friendly.

I'm against these kinds of services all together.

I'll handle one that is not too restrictive and let's me buy what few things I don't pick up at a store. I'd say Steam is, in fact, too restrictive already, and it certainly doesn't let me buy anything (I tried to buy G&K for a few days before giving up and later seeing it in a store).
 
But there is a great downside: you will need online mode if you need to install new games, expansions and patches.

Um ... yeah ... if you want to get new content from Steam you sort of have to sign their EULA. Go figure. :confused:

I though the issue here is that if you don't want to play ball with them anymore you'd lose access to the stuff you got under the old rules. The VM fixes that issue. If you want more stuff later you've got to deal with the new rules.

- Marty Lund
 
Um ... yeah ... if you want to get new content from Steam you sort of have to sign their EULA. Go figure. :confused:

I though the issue here is that if you don't want to play ball with them anymore you'd lose access to the stuff you got under the old rules. The VM fixes that issue. If you want more stuff later you've got to deal with the new rules.

- Marty Lund

58 items in the new patch are listed as bug fixes. As far as I am aware, bug fixes were never considered new content...
 
58 items in the new patch are listed as bug fixes. As far as I am aware, bug fixes were never considered new content...

Bug fixes are ALWAYS new content. Seriously.

Am I just that old that I remember buying software prior to Hotfixes and Downloadable Patches that bugs were bugs - love it or leave it? If you wanted the "bug fix" on a piece on non-download media you bought an entire new edition of a book, video game, etc.

Free downloadable bug-fixes are a feature of the distribution model. Unfortunately it comes with strings attached, like the user license and online engine junk you don't want. You're free to choose Option A, Option B, or take your business to someone else that offers you an Option C.

- Marty Lund
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom