Strategy discussion

Then beelining to chemistry or my favorite, military tradition, could be useful in resettling China or India.

My ideas about 1)India: Crush border cities, capture Delhi(most cultural and populous) city, work on food tiles, spawn settlers. 2)China: Raze southern cities, but not northern cities, they will flip to Independent Cities. Take Beijing or Hangzhou, work on food and spawn settlers.
 
Actually, I'm mid-way through an English UHV (the first time I've ever seriously attempted a UHV!) and I'm going to win, I was first into Industrial, so I'm just waiting for the Modern Era to roll around. Anyways, for goal number 2, I just razed and re-settled Singapore (from the Indians, and I razed it just to be safe) and then founded two un-scripted cities in Russia (one on that peninsual near Japan with the whales nearby, and one near the gems in northern Russia), achieved goal number 2 and then promptly erased them with the world builder.
 
@ NitroJay. About the Indians. Great analysis, dood!

You are absolutely right about which five religions are required to consistently meet the Indian UHV. Attempting to steal Confucianism or Taoism is far too iffy. You are also spot on the money when you say that the first priority is Judaism and that the only way to grab Islam is to do it with a couple of GPs.

I'd like to suggest a refinement of your methods, one which I think does a better job of meeting the secondary goals - protection from the Persians and growth to becoming the largest civ in 1200AD.

To start with, Stonehenge is NOT necessary. By skipping it, you can grow faster to reach the 1200AD target with ease. Furthermore, you can train defenders to keep the AI off your back. Maybe even whomp a bit of Persian ass.

You are absolutely right that the initial research order has to be Masonry- Polytheism- Monotheism- Meditation. Thereafter, though, it is no longer essential to maniacally pursue religion. You have won the initial race and it is appropriate to mix in other useful techs after this. After refining your method, I continue from here with The Wheel-Priesthood-Bronze Working- Writing- Agriculture- Animal Husbandry- Monarchy. IOW, mix in worker techs. I hope be able to trade for Iron Working, since we have the metal. I will research it myself if I have to. We have iron. With a couple of spears and axes, the game is in the bag.

The build order in the capital should be warrior- warrior- settler- worker- something- something- Oracle. My choice for "something- something" is settler- barracks. A third city doesn't add much to your research effort but it is a source of defenders and, in the long run, of people for your growth target.

T-city (I agree with the location) starts immediately on the Parthenon from day one. Once in wonder-building mode, both cities should emphasize production as much as possible. When you have The Wheel, join the capital to bring the marble over. Not to mention religion. When you get Bronze Working, chop and whip both cities silly. After they have completed their wonders, both cities should build a temple and hire a priest. That will get out two GPs, one from each city, before the Arabs appear.

Advantages:
1) the wonder-building era is over sooner and the growth phase can begin sooner.
2) you can build soldiers without worrying about what will happen to your economy.

Disadvantages:
Not much but the sequence is tight. You need to get the Oracle and Temple built in Delhi ASAP. Otherwise the Arabs will appear before your second GP.

Pittfalls:
1) While it is possible to research Alpha before Divine Right, this is a mistake because your GPs will want to lightbulb Literature.
2) Divine Right is 2 GPs plus a bit. The sequence is tight. You'll want the bit before the second GP.
 
You hadnt told about settling Asia in previous post...

If you don't want to have trouble, send three settlers and half a dozen military with them to Kamshatka, build the three cities there just before 1700, so you delay the cost as far as you can since those cities will cost you a lot du to the distnace from London. But make sure you galleon get there on time ;)
Australia (again you'll need 8 turns for your galley to get there) and S Africa are easier (no other civs or flip problems) and more productive (the area is muccccccccccccccccccccccccch nicer: gems, sugar, etc). Settling the Americas is very easy, you need 1/2 turns to get there and there is enough space in Quebec and around the Hudson bay.
 
Or you can found much beter colonies in asia such as Singapore, Hong Kong,
and Calcutta, razing the surounding cities with redcoats before 1700 is not very hard to do, and much more fun.
 
That was my original plan, but I was extremely pressed for time. I managed to achieve goal number two with like 5 turns to spare.
 
@ Abegweit:

You know, your plan sounds like it would work much better... I have a long flight to LA and back tonight, I'm going to give it a shot... The only thing there that I'm a little iffy about is the GP production... Even without having the passifist civic they still come out in time? Hmm... I'll give it a shot...
 
@ Abegweit:

You know, your plan sounds like it would work much better...
It's not my plan; it's yours. :lol: I just took what you suggested and made some little modifications. You did the hard work.

I have a long flight to LA and back tonight, I'm going to give it a shot...
Merry Christmas!

The only thing there that I'm a little iffy about is the GP production... Even without having the passifist civic they still come out in time? Hmm... I'll give it a shot...
The priest is sufficient to make up for it. I typically get the second one in the early 500s AD. It actually makes little difference which city finishes first. The one that does can concentrate on growing the civ. There is one advantage in finishing T-town first. Delhi is guaranteed to get a GP while T-town may get a GA. The Artist will want to light bulb Lit if you research/trade for Alpha. Priests don't care about such things, so you can get this very useful tech.

The only thing is that you need to get a bit of self-research on DR. IIRC, each GP is worth about 1026 and DR costs 2368 so the diff is roughly 316. I'm sure you knew that though.
 
Ok I made it!
Firstly, I settled British isles. Porstmouth, Manchester and London. Inverness was traded from Vikings, so I got large boost and used last settler in Limerick. After it I decided boost economy and grown and link direct scientific development to Galleons. Built 2 caravels to reach first goal. I reached galleons relatively after my workers build all improvements which I could. So I built 3 settlers and 6 longbowmen. Settled South Africa with two and Australia with one and also sent orkers there. After my galleons were back, I built same number and settled Australia with another, one in Falkland Isles and one in Canada. Most developed cities in South Africa, Australia and this one city in Canada built settler by their own. Now I got Redcoats so I send galleons to strenghtened defend and started large building redcoats and settler to large reach - Asia. But it was about 1600 when I found that I will not be able to build 3 settlers in time. So I loaded one settler, 8 redcoats and 3 cavalries and captured One independant city(former Persia), And 3 neutral or barbarian cities in Indochina, only settler settled Singapore and I grabed second goal, ithout founding 2 cities in Asia, only captured another 3! Nice surprise!
In the future I continued in settling. To time when I won (about 1870) I settled more cities in South Africa, Australia and Canada, lost this one city mentioned before to Persian revolution, vassalized peacfully Arabia and Mali, by culture captured American Chicago and by congresses got two In cities from eastern India. In south Africa I captured one native city too. My defensive pacts were randomly by time with Egypt and America, but with large number of redcoats I had only one war thanks bug "nice to meet you, lets go war" with Japan. I was giving also presents when someone asked.
 
You need to be the one to found the cities, I ended up razing all of India and dropped 3 setttlers there and it worked.

I took over the Barbarian and Independent cities and still won - only founded Singapore myself. The other 2 were Pagan and Angkor.
 
I took over the Barbarian and Independent cities and still won - only founded Singapore myself. The other 2 were Pagan and Angkor.

That's right. I took over Pagan, Macau, and Angkor and still achieved the historical victory, despite not "founding" cities in Asia myself.
 
Im playing with the romans and most of the European Civs spawned already.

They seem to have a couple of advanced techs will they soon lag behind the tech tree or will they have a consistent flow of more technological techs?

Also the Greeks are Pleased with me so are the French somewhat.

My real question is that im planing to attack the Egiyptians.I have 3 Armies each of 3 Pateroians well promoted 1 catapult to reduce any city defences and 2 spearmen to attack any mounted units

I already know I can count on the Greeks to help me out if needed but,every 2 turns I seem to be getting barb horse archers and cammel archers. Should I hunt down the city that they come from in southern africa or just go with my campaign againt Egypt?
 
Chances are the Europeans will do a good job of keeping up the tech pace.. they are the way of the future, meant to supplant you. So keeping up/catching up may take a while, unless you can broker techs around.

North Africa is tough, because those barbarians don't
come from a city--they are just wild nomads and will keep on coming until a certain point. That certain point is
Spoiler :
approximately the year 900 A.D.
. You can't do anything about it besides leaving good defense at home. So go with your campaign if you can, but keep well-fortified and promoted spearmen in Carthago. Best of luck turning the tide!
 
You should rush Egypt with the 3 or 4 praets you have left Immediatley after taking Carthage out, sometimes thats all you need to take Egypt out if your lucky, at the very least its enough to take Per-Wadjet before making peace.
 
Thanks Lord Apalon and Mercenary,

I have started and it is going quite well. The Capitale City is almost mine just a few more trns of cataputs and I can attack. As for the barbs they are not a problem anymore since I can now promote my spears to Pike men and since they were always defending against them they have good Promotions.

That brings me to my other question. I always keep the Capitals or any big city I capture, But for the rest should I raze them or keep them? This has always been a big question for me.
 
Whew! After about five tries, I finally achieved the Roman Historical Victory on Monarch, using today’s Warlords update. Here's my suggestions on how to accomplish it, based on how I did it.

First, the historical victory requirements:
1. By 450 A.D./Turn 143
450-turn 143—every city size 5 or more must be:
connected to the capital
have barracks
have an aqueduct
have an amphitheatre
2. By 450 A.D./Turn 143
Emulate the reaches of Rome's Western Empire: Three cities in France, two on west coast of northern Africa, two in Spain, one in England.
3. Before 1400 AD, no city lost to barbs


First turn:
I took the four Praets and put them all on the two galleys. I sent my archers down southeast to be picked up later. I sent my workers to minethe iron to the northeast. The galleys stop right outside of the borders of Carthage, and depending on their mood, you may be able to trade some techs with them. I set Rome to building a trireme-forge-barracks.

I set tech for agriculture, then monarchy, then mathematics, then construction, but since I was beaten to the Coliseum, this may not be the best tactic. My reasoning: agriculture for fields so you can pump out settlers, monarchy for the wine and happiness of “impressing” armies, math for the catapults, and construction for the Coliseum/Great Wall. Making a beeline for theology and Christianity is risky, but it may work as well (I never tried it myself.)

Second turn: Declare war on Carthage and rush them with the four Praets. You should be able to attack directly from sea and lose only one, if any. (If not, I'd just reload the scenario—too early to lose precious Praets.) You may even be able to pick up another worker from them. If you're lucky, you won't end up razing Carthage, but if you do, no big deal. Better to eliminate the civ now then to let them grow into a problem later.

Around the second/third turn Medio flips. Send one of their archers down to keep Rome happy. I set Medio to archer-settler-archer-settler, ad infinitum, with some workers in the mix as well as needed.

Third-Tenth Turns: Reload all the Praets on the gallies and head to Greece. Trade a few techs with them and then, naturally, attack. Athens has always been pretty weak in my experiences. If you're lucky, they may also have settled Constantinople, so you can take that too (if your Praets survive!). If they have any cities left afterwards, no problem, the Greek civ should crumble within a few turns. Any independent civ of Greek leftovers will not be aggressive, and may even act as a buffer from Babylon or Persia if they're in Turkey, as was the case with my game.

Carthage and Athens I tend to set up as Wonder building towns, guarding them with just an archer apiece for now (the archers I had sent southeast of Italy in turn one, picked up by galleys.) Athens is a great place to build the Great Wall if you can, and that eliminates a great deal of headaches from barbarians later on. But for now build the Great Lighthouse—it will keep you afloat financially when your empire gets huge and unwieldly. I'd set Carthage on the Parthenon.

So, by this stage you have at least three cities: Athens, Medio, and Rome, and maybe Carthage.

10th-142th turn: Some keys at this stage:
1. At least two Brennus cities will spawn in France. Taking them over is fairly easy. In the last scenario no Paris city spawned, so I had to settle that one myself. So, don't send settlers into France right away--better to take over their cities then use up one of your settlers.
2. Speaking of settlers: You need to become a settler factory. In previous games I kept trying to make Rome a military-only town and found that I simply couldn’t settle all my cities in time. You’ll need at least one settler for North Africa (two if Carthage is razed); two for Spain; one for London; and possibly one for France. I didn’t bother with settling a city in the bootheel of Italy until after 450; I did’t have a settler to spare.
3. Forget conquering any other civs or cities until after turn 450. Jerusalem and Egypt are tempting, but they spread you out too thin.
4. Keep a good road network between your cities. Rome should be churning out Praets at least every other turn. Barbarians will pop up in Spain and in Germany by the fours and sixes, and will be very aggressive. I kept a squadron of four Praets in southeast France, since it was midways between where they liked to spawn. Again, keep your worker busy with roads! Use the Roman Unique Power to its best advantage.
5. Your Spanish/French/English cities should take up few resources. I build monuments (for culture) if I don’t have a religion handy, but otherwise spend little time on them. Maximize production with them, churning out military units.
6. The easiest way to deal with the adequct/ampitheatre/barracks requirement for cities size five or larger? Have no cities size five or larger. I set my cities to No Growth once they hit level 4, or make sure to keep them low with slavery rushes, at least by turn 144. I had no city over city 4 when 450 AD hit in my victory.
7. As soon as I can, I set an engineer in Rome, towards building a Great Engineer: very handy for a Great Wall or a Coliseum rush later on.

143th turn-1400 AD
Managing to get both the 450 AD historical victories is the hard part. After that, barbarians shouldn’t be too much of a problem, except perhaps around Carthage, and some spearmen/praets should be enough to keep it safe. I was able to cruise to the third historical victory pretty easily by this point.

Then it’s a matter of seeing your cities get peeled away by Spain, England, and France. From 450 AD to the eighth century those flip-vulnerable cities just build workers or military units for me—I wouldn't bother to invest any buildings, except perhaps walls and monuments. When the change comes, I always “agreed the flip” because the loss of cities actually helped stabilize my badly bleeding economy.

Now, I would settle cities on the Balkan coast and the bootheel of Italy. Depending on the size of my army and the strength of the Eastern civilizations like Egypt, Babylon, and Arabia, you may want to push into the Middle East (beware the eventual Turkey flip, however).


Anyhow, that’s my advice, based on my Roman Historical Victory.
 
Hmmm... I was playing on version 1.09, so I didn't get UHV. I have some questions: conquering Athens & building there The Great Lighthouse is really good for Roman economy? In my game I had built Great Wall in Rome but still I was able to settle all needed places- building this wonder in Athens give more time? If you had build Great Wall defence vs barbarians in Spain & Africa isn't needed any more...
 
Hmmm... I was playing on version 1.09, so I didn't get UHV. I have some questions: conquering Athens & building there The Great Lighthouse is really good for Roman economy? In my game I had built Great Wall in Rome but still I was able to settle all needed places- building this wonder in Athens give more time? If you had build Great Wall defence vs barbarians in Spain & Africa isn't needed any more...

The Great Lighthouse was my tactic, but building the Great Wall before would certainly be a tenable idea. I just didn't get the tech in time.

My problem was in earlier scenarios I had attempted that by the time I was close to founding all my cities that I'd be running 10 or 0 percent science. With the Great Lighthouse early on, I could manage 50-30.

(Another tactic that I didn't try but I think would work is to simply leave a settler and archer in the London spot till turn 142 or so, then settle it right before the year 450. That way you won't have the egregious upkeep costs for London draining you.)

werttrew,

Could you show on the map where your cities were located? I tried the Roman UHV but I did not have my cities in the right places. See the atlas thread about where I placed mine.
Lord Oden: I simply filled in the gaps as listed here: http://zepto-angstrom.co.uk/scrap/rfcmap/index.html

But to answer your question specifically, I founded cities in:
*London
*Paris
*Lisbon (On the west Iberian coast, just north of the southern river)
*Carthage
*In North Africa, southeast of Gibraltar, just north of a horse resource
*In Spain, just east of horse resource, north of a river.
The other two French cities I conquered from Brennus.
 
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