Strategy for Science Victory in 140 Turns or less

[EpicWestern]

I’m curious if R&F has slowed down the pace of these crazy fast science victories? I’m not good enough to do them yet, but since research has been slowed a bit I’m wondering if they take longer now.

Only have about 3 games with R&F but it does seems slower on average. There are all kinds of neat benefits here and there for science, but costlier eurekas, inspirations, and nerfed rationalism is just so huge. Also not sure what's going on with great people. There's clearly more of them which is somewhat of a plus, but in a way in makes it tougher to get the deeper people that matter. There are also seems to be a bug where for whatever reason some great people cost 3350 points or so, even if the next is cheaper.

 

[ackoman]

Can someone please explain the significance of this "Make sure to time Stirups with Feudalism."

Just getting back into CIV and there's a few things I just don't get!

 

[Hactar]

Can someone please explain the significance of this "Make sure to time Stirups with Feudalism."

Stirrups unlocks the heavy chariot -> knight upgrade, so it’s super important for warmongering. The Eureka for Stirrups is to have the Feudalism civic. So for optimum timing, you would start researching Stirrups ahead of time so you’re just below half way done on the turn you finish Feudalism. Then you can get your knights on the next turn.

I don’t think there’s anything particularly special about Feudalism / Stirrups actually. You do exactly the same juggling act with other techs and civics to try and make the most of all boosts and not waste overflow. But those two are “expensive” relative to your tech / civic progress at that time so any mistakes in timing will cost you more turns or wasted overflow.

 

[Athmos]

Can someone please explain the significance of this "Make sure to time Stirups with Feudalism."

Just getting back into CIV and there's a few things I just don't get!

Stirrups is the tech for knight, which are the dominant units of their era. Civ 6 efficient warring revolves around a strong and quick push with a decisive advantage, usually having such a dominant unit before other civs. The superior mobility of cavalry units tends to factor the player more than the AI as well. As the Stirrup tech is boosted by the discovery of the feudalism civic, you usually want to get those 2 key points at about the same time, completing 60% of stirrup at the time you get feudalism, which then completes stirrups via this eureka.

You want to have as many heavy chariots as you'll want knights by this point, as they are much faster to produce (using the manoeuvre policy card). Then right after you get feudalism/stirrups, you get mercenaries for the 50% discount to upgrades and change your army of chariots to an army of knights and declare and an unlucky neighbour.

You have quite a few parameters to get right, early production and positioning of your chariots while saving gold for your upgrades (90g per upgrade from chariot to knight), then get feudalism, stirrups and mercenaries in quick succession. This is not that hard to execute actually, the skill is in getting there fast, and thus doing it while generating enough culture and science to get there as early as possible.

The upgrade mechanism makes it possible (and of course much better) to almost instantly get an army of your most advanced unit when you get the tech, if you planned for it.

 

[ackoman]

Thanks for the helpful replies - so just to make sure I've understood, it is all to do with using Eurakas in the most efficient way possible? I guess its not catastrophic if you miss out by a turn or two?

Is this statement "Finish researching Craftsmanship exactly on the turn the settler is done." important for the same reason?

 

[Hactar]

Thanks for the helpful replies - so just to make sure I've understood, it is all to do with using Eurakas in the most efficient way possible? I guess its not catastrophic if you miss out by a turn or two?

Is this statement "Finish researching Craftsmanship exactly on the turn the settler is done." important for the same reason?

Yes I think so. Optimal play would be to avoid putting any production into something if you don’t yet have the % bonus policy card, and to never have an unused policy card in place. That would mean switching production and policy at the same time. In practice, for me at least, it doesn’t usually line up perfectly. If the settler is done early, then you have to choose between putting a turn or two into something else (monument, granary, etc.), or putting production into the slinger without the bonus because you really needed it 5 turns ago

 

[DanaLea]

Of course, most of this is moot if you play peacefully. LOL

 

[Athmos]

As Hactar pointed out, while not wasting culture/science is very important, generally you want to synchronize some build finishing with a policy swap.
e.g.: When you just finished producing builders, you want to swap out of ilkum/serfdom, for example to get a card helping your units production.
When you upgrade your units, you want to have a policy swap if possible right after the tech becomes available to slot in "Professional armies" (not possible for knight as you need feudalism to research mercenaries), do your upgrades in one turn, then swap out again as you don't need the discount any more.

Early in the game, you'll probably want colonization to build settlers, but you'll also want to swap to agoge as soon as you're producing units, etc. These type of synchronization allows you to minimize production waste by minimizing the turns you are producing without a production multiplier or running a policy without benefits (e.g : Colonization while you're not producing settlers).

 

[Athmos]

Of course, most of this is moot if you play peacefully. LOL

The knight rush, yes, but swaping in/out production bonus cards exactly when you start or finish producing something is still key, just as completing your builders in as close a timeframe as possible while running serfdom. It tends to make you want to build in waves (of builders, of settlers, of units, ships) and hugely rewards planning.
If you time when to get some units upgrades or building for eurekas/inspirations, want to maximize overflow to use production multipliers for items that don't have one (like most districts and buildings), maximize your policies and their swaps, then you only have to fit it all in your overall strategy :-D.

To me that's one of the great success of the game, there are many layers interacting but not redundant with each other, which makes for a high skill cap and quite rich strategies and tactics.

 

[RealHuhn]

They should really add a small penalty for attacking city walls with cavalry units. But that's an entirely different topic I guess ^^

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

Of course, most of this is moot if you play peacefully. LOL

I find the general principles set out here very applicable to playing peacefully. Perhaps even more useful when playing peacefully, because you need to be even more efficient with your decisions to win quickly with a smaller empire.

 

[AbacusRay]

I made an account for two reasons. One to thanks Victoria, LilyLancer and especially CivTrader6.

Your youtube videos have completely changed the way I played the game and made me a much better player.

Secondly, @civtrader6 are you planning on attempting a R&F SV update or youtube video. I dug your Mongolian Dom video and would really like to see a peaceful SV or regular SV in R&F with a civ/leader that is not Rome or Pericles.

Again, thanks for what you do. And to Lily and Victoria for the great guides and comments.

 

[Victoria]

thanks for what you do. And to Lily and Victoria for the great guides and commen

That’s very kind, one feels there are many many others missed, the Chinese forums amd in particular @Boyan_Sun for a start. It’s a great forum also helped by the moderators and admins that allow fair trading of ideas.
I am intrigued with the ability to play peacefully on deity as I really struggle to do this without save and restore. Just too many variables happen.

 

[Boyan_Sun]

would really like to see a peaceful SV or regular SV in R&F with a civ/leader that is not Rome or Pericles.

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/how-to-quick-sv-share-your-view.628174/
Please check this thread for some thoughts, these even shows that peace is no longer slower than war after R&F.

(Not appropriate to say, but lily is also from this Chinese forum, though he won't admit it)

 

[AbacusRay]

@Victoria I am sure I missed a whole bunch of people. I just see you and Lily on every thread. lol

Thanks @Boyan_Sun ! I just stumbled upon these forums a week ago (after discovering on CivTrader6 youtube videos) like the true pleb I am. I read mention of the Chinese forums from other posts but I will definitely check it out. Definitely checking out this thread you linked on my lunch break

 

[Stamden]

I read through all 14 pages of this, and it was fantastic. Made an account just to talk in this thread. Thank you @civtrader6 , @Victoria , and @Lily_Lancer. I would love to see this thread going again as it has been some of the best high level civ 6 discussion on the internet. Things certainly seem a little different in R&F.

I guess to get the discussion going again: Could someone give me a detailed explanation on what exactly I should be doing endgame?

I feel like got a pretty good grasp of the early/mid game (although I could certainly optimize governers more). After Merchant Republic, I really have no idea what I am doing. And then the whole endgame process of Democracy, Big Ben, Buying all GS, and Chopping spaceport & space projects to victory still seems super complex. I am not sure how that's even how your supposed to do it in R&F, let alone how your supposed to properly plan and time that out perfectly. Any help would be greatly appriecated.

 

[Hactar]

I guess to get the discussion going again: Could someone give me a detailed explanation on what exactly I should be doing endgame?

I feel like got a pretty good grasp of the early/mid game (although I could certainly optimize governers more). After Merchant Republic, I really have no idea what I am doing. And then the whole endgame process of Democracy, Big Ben, Buying all GS, and Chopping spaceport & space projects to victory still seems super complex. I am not sure how that's even how your supposed to do it in R&F, let alone how your supposed to properly plan and time that out perfectly. Any help would be greatly appriecated.

The most current info is in the thread linked two posts above yours. Buying Great Scientists is no longer all that useful since Sagan's production can't be used to finish more than one project now, and Democracy no longer gives the gold purchase discount I think. In fact I don't know if Democracy is the way to go these days in the late game. It's OK but Communism seemed to work well for me too. Instead of chopping, we have Reyna who can be promoted to buy districts (spaceports) with gold, so Big Ben / gold focus is still feasible. There are other sources of big lump gold nowadays besides Big Ben (emergencies). You can still chop spaceports if you don't have gold or the right governor promotion; Magnus makes that way easier. But the Royal Society government building lets you use builder charges directly for projects, so you don't have to chop the projects. You could do the last three in parallel using builder charges, which of course you couldn't do using Magnus chops (he can only be in one place at once). Pyramids becomes more important if you're going that route.

I'm no expert on it though. Hopefully the real experts will chime in. There are lots of different strategies to explore. Try some of them out and have fun

 

[Stamden]

The most current info is in the thread linked two posts above yours. Buying Great Scientists is no longer all that useful since Sagan's production can't be used to finish more than one project now, and Democracy no longer gives the gold purchase discount I think. In fact I don't know if Democracy is the way to go these days in the late game. It's OK but Communism seemed to work well for me too. Instead of chopping, we have Reyna who can be promoted to buy districts (spaceports) with gold, so Big Ben / gold focus is still feasible. There are other sources of big lump gold nowadays besides Big Ben (emergencies). You can still chop spaceports if you don't have gold or the right governor promotion; Magnus makes that way easier. But the Royal Society government building lets you use builder charges directly for projects, so you don't have to chop the projects. You could do the last three in parallel using builder charges, which of course you couldn't do using Magnus chops (he can only be in one place at once). Pyramids becomes more important if you're going that route.

I'm no expert on it though. Hopefully the real experts will chime in. There are lots of different strategies to explore. Try some of them out and have fun

Yeah I had no idea how to play the endgame before, and now I am even more lost because there is almost 0 information on it. Really looking forward to what the experts have to say. Hell, I would pay good money to see a R&F SV video by @civtrader6, I learned so much from his old ones

 

[Lily_Lancer]

I read through all 14 pages of this, and it was fantastic. Made an account just to talk in this thread. Thank you @civtrader6 , @Victoria , and @Lily_Lancer. I would love to see this thread going again as it has been some of the best high level civ 6 discussion on the internet. Things certainly seem a little different in R&F.

I guess to get the discussion going again: Could someone give me a detailed explanation on what exactly I should be doing endgame?

I feel like got a pretty good grasp of the early/mid game (although I could certainly optimize governers more). After Merchant Republic, I really have no idea what I am doing. And then the whole endgame process of Democracy, Big Ben, Buying all GS, and Chopping spaceport & space projects to victory still seems super complex. I am not sure how that's even how your supposed to do it in R&F, let alone how your supposed to properly plan and time that out perfectly. Any help would be greatly appriecated.

This thread is not for R & F, just a before-RF strategy.

In R & F making good use of Magnus is the most important issue.

 

[AnthonyPaulO]

This thread is excellent! Is there a version of this thread for R&F?