Subdued Animals in C2C discussions

[ls612]

I second SO's point, i'm having to delete sooooo many animals in my late prehistoric/early ancient games, its been like this since v18 IIRC. I have also been getting 2 great generals off of killing ONLY animals, this with Barb Generals turned on.

 

[AIAndy]

I second SO's point, i'm having to delete sooooo many animals in my late prehistoric/early ancient games, its been like this since v18 IIRC. I have also been getting 2 great generals off of killing ONLY animals, this with Barb Generals turned on.

Well, the subdued animal actions are in now so as soon as the XML for all the subdued animals is added you can at least butcher them but probably also other things like sacrifice them to the gods.

 

[Koshling]

This is why i want LESS animals on bigger maps, see pic 1, I just got tech Tribalism, pic2, and i have already everything i can get for animals so far(pic 3), and i still have all these left over and now i have to delete ALL the rest of the animals.

What does the size of the map have to do with it? It's just the size of the landmass in relation to how hunted out it is surely? Here is what I think we should do:

1. when considering whether to spawn an animal in a plot, first check the area its in;
2. if the area has no owned plots in it at all, reduce the spawn rate dramatically (like 10% say);
3. if the area contains owned plots then increase the spawn rate by an amount proportional to the percentage of plots in the area which are owned (up to say double or treble when almost all plots are owned)

this has several benefits:

• animals don't build up to nearly the same extent on as yet unpopulated islands (don't count barbarian owned tiles as owned for the purposes of the above calculations)
• the game doesn't waste time doing ai calculations and moves for animals that are essentially irrelevant
• for anyone trapped on smaller landmasses they will quickly get to a high proportion of their area being owned, which will boost the number of animals they see (relative to current system)

I would also make this a game option, because in some sense it's a cheat.

 

[ls612]

What does the size of the map have to do with it?

The size of the map goes up as a quadratic, ie if you double the sides the map is 4 times as big, whereas the default number of civs is more or less linear with the length of one side of the map.

 

[Koshling]

The size of the map goes up as a quadratic, ie if you double the sides the map is 4 times as big, whereas the default number of civs is more or less linear with the length of one side of the map.

Yes but the animal spawn rate is proportional to the map neutral area, so it's starts off independent of map size (though you're right that the proportionality is lost at a different rate on different map sizes due to differences in civ density). The thing that actually matters is the proportion of territory that is neutral (and so can spawn animals). Cov density is part of that, but map variance is a bigger one, which is why I suggest a system that directly reacts to that owned proportion.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

You can now butcher animals A-C inclusive. I have hurt both wrists so this is going slower than usual.

 

[Madd_Mugsy]

[*]when considering whether to spawn an animal in a plot, first check the area its in;
[*]if the area has no owned plots in it at all, reduce the spawn rate dramatically (like 10% say);
[*]if the area contains owned plots then increase the spawn rate by an amount proportional to the percentage of plots in the area which are owned

I agree. It would also be nice to set that spawn rate to zero if the land mass is below a certain size. Every single square island in my game has an animal on it

I think the sea creature spawn rates should be lowered too. I think I've killed more whales than the Japanese did throughout real history before 1000 bc in game. Every turn one of my boats gets attacked (and I don't have a lot of them).

 

[strategyonly]

What does the size of the map have to do with it? It's just the size of the landmass in relation to how hunted out it is surely? Here is what I think we should do:

1. when considering whether to spawn an animal in a plot, first check the area its in;
2. if the area has no owned plots in it at all, reduce the spawn rate dramatically (like 10% say);
3. if the area contains owned plots then increase the spawn rate by an amount proportional to the percentage of plots in the area which are owned (up to say double or treble when almost all plots are owned)

this has several benefits:

• animals don't build up to nearly the same extent on as yet unpopulated islands (don't count barbarian owned tiles as owned for the purposes of the above calculations)
• the game doesn't waste time doing ai calculations and moves for animals that are essentially irrelevant
• for anyone trapped on smaller landmasses they will quickly get to a high proportion of their area being owned, which will boost the number of animals they see (relative to current system)

I would also make this a game option, because in some sense it's a cheat.

I am ok with this, sounds like a better plan then, if its ok with DH that is??

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I agree. It would also be nice to set that spawn rate to zero if the land mass is below a certain size. Every single square island in my game has an animal on it

Which is very real world like.

I think the sea creature spawn rates should be lowered too. I think I've killed more whales than the Japanese did throughout real history before 1000 bc in game. Every turn one of my boats gets attacked (and I don't have a lot of them).

Not possible. Even on eternity there are not enough turns in a game even killing 10 per turn. Then there are all those killed by the Europeans and others for oil. Estimates are that the current population of the oceans for all species is 10% or less than pre-Columbus days.

I am ok with this, sounds like a better plan then, if its ok with DH that is??

I have no problem with Koshling's suggestion.

 

[Madd_Mugsy]

Not possible. Even on eternity there are not enough turns in a game even killing 10 per turn. Then there are all those killed by the Europeans and others for oil. Estimates are that the current population of the oceans for all species is 10% or less than pre-Columbus days.

Sigh - Another little hyperbole lost in a forum...

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Sigh - Another little hyperbole lost in a forum...

Oh, you mean like when that guy tried to exagerate about the rabbit killing legions of troops and I pointed out that the killer rabit was optional.

@AIAndy, I thought that the third yield type from butchering animals was supposed to be gold. Also the message does not look right when there is a third yield.

 

[AIAndy]

Oh, you mean like when that guy tried to exagerate about the rabbit killing legions of troops and I pointed out that the killer rabit was optional.

@AIAndy, I thought that the third yield type from butchering animals was supposed to be gold. Also the message does not look right when there is a third yield.

The third yield is commerce which means it uses your science slider. No espionage against barbarians though so that is skipped and I forgot to add the display for culture.
If you want gold, use the Commerces tag similar to how it is used elsewhere.

 

[chueche]

A question: When you sacrifice animals to a god, it brings then culture to the city?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

A question: When you sacrifice animals to a god, it brings then culture to the city?

It is still under discussion. I would expect that it may vary with state religion and civics. As would sacrificing slaves or captives from war.

 

[Koshling]

I have no problem with Koshling's suggestion.

I'll do this today so that people can try it out and see how it behaves.

Edit - Just pushed the changes to SVN. Due to what can easily and efficiently be calculated it isn't exactly as I had planned, but it's close. Spawn rate adjustment is as follows:

• If the area containing the potential spawn plot is land and has no non-barbarian cities then spawn rate is cut by a factor of 10 (don't bother spawning in essentially unplayed areas)
• Otherwise, calculate the percentage of the area that is owned, and increase the spawn rate by between 0 (nothing owned) and 200% (everything owned)

The main downside of doing this automatically (without any control in the XML) is that it applies to all spawns indiscriminately. Right now that includes Neanderthals. I could make it apply to animals only if that was felt to be more desirable...

 

[strategyonly]

Gentlemen

I must say i really really really like the NEW Butcher action for the Animals, fandamntastic

 

[strategyonly]

This might be the problem then, i just looked at the dds file for the panther and this is what it looked like??
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11222162&postcount=694

Took care of this, i had to go all the way back to Vanilla assets to find the correct dds file

 

[AIAndy]

Gentlemen

I must say i really really really like the NEW Butcher action for the Animals, fandamntastic

Time to make some more like it now that a lot of that can be done with pure XML.

Some possibilities (not all for all animals, doable now with pure XML):

• Sacrifice the animal for great people points towards great prophet (maybe require some building to do it)
• Study the animal for some beakers (building requirement?)
• Hold games in the Colloseum (or equivalent) with lions or other dangerous creatures for gold and culture
• Use it to work hard on construction (needs some tech, 20% chance it dies early for little production bonus, 10% chance it runs away in a worthy tale = culture, rest chance a bonus to production)

 

[Iceciro]

[*]Sacrifice the animal for great people points towards great prophet (maybe require some building to do it)
[/LIST]

Oh please gods no! GPs are already the easiest to get; any other great person...

 

[AIAndy]

Oh please gods no! GPs are already the easiest to get; any other great person...

Could depend on the animal towards which GP.