I think both of those are already models on the Hunter line in C2C. I have had a long day though, so I might be mistaken.
Subdued Animals in C2C discussions
- Thread starter Dancing Hoskuld
- Start date
I think both of those are already models on the Hunter line in C2C. I have had a long day though, so I might be mistaken.
TowerWizard
Warlord
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2008
- Messages
- 277
Have any of you guys ever played Dwarf Fortress? They (he? she) have (has?) a very interesting way of using animals. Most animals are large and take up space in the world, but some are too small to be used as units, but are rater just in the tile description. Things like spiders, rats, snakes, insects.
The reason I'm bringing this up is that maybe we don't need to depict every animal as a unit in the game world. Maybe we can have some of the bigger ones wandering around, such as bears, elephants, rhinos and such. But also, Animal Units can appear just as text in the tile. The on mouse over may inform that the Jungle tile contains an assortment of birds/snakes/toads/insects, for instance, or that a Forest tile might contain deer/fox/wolf/bear (animals might wary over time, and some animals might be found in multiple tiles), and a unit idling in the tile might suffer attacks from one or more of the units, using the normal battle process. Some units might have the option of intentionally seeking battle against these units, such as scouts/hunters. After such a battle it might end up taking some of them as trophies (subdued animals) to be used as myths or special buildings, using the Outcome system as usual. These trophies can be represented by units, as now, or as promotions that can be removed in cities to convert them into buildings. Tiles within cultural borders might still contain animals in this way, though the chances might be lower. Proximity to cities/improvements might also lower these chances, as will numbers of units (the more units in a stack, the less the chance of being attacked by an animal). Hunters may hunt animals within the borders using this system.
For instance, lets say that during a certain turn the on-mouse-over information might say that a Jungle contains snakes and birds. A player wants a Hunter to seek battle with these animals to get a trophy (subdued animal). Thus, he places the hunter in the tile, and an option light up called "Hunt". In this example let's say that it doubles the chances of a battle taking place. The player presses Hunt, since he wants a fight, and the computer determines whether or not the hunter finds an animal based on chance. It might be 20% base chance of getting a fight, but since the Hunt button was pushed, it becomes 40%. If the computer determines a fight is taking place, it then determines which animal group to fight against (bird), and lastly which specific animal within that group (macaw) that could be found in the tile. Thus, a Macaw is placed on the Hunters tile, and a battle takes place as normal, with the outcome system used as normal. If the Macaw kills the Hunter, it disappears "back into its tile".
This system might reduce some of the clutter of the game world, it might reduce lag by not having to track hundreds of Animal units (or maybe thousands in gigantic maps?) and moving them around every turn (what animals a tile might contain might only be known if a unit stands on the tile, meaning the computer needs only determine this for these tiles and not for every tile), and it might feel more realistic (once it becomes balanced). The civipedia might have a list of the animals every tile can contain. Of course, this makes the terrain more unpredictable and dangerous for lone units. The AI might also get some bonuses on regards to this system, I don't know. I just got the idea now. Thought I'd share it with the community.
The reason I'm bringing this up is that maybe we don't need to depict every animal as a unit in the game world. Maybe we can have some of the bigger ones wandering around, such as bears, elephants, rhinos and such. But also, Animal Units can appear just as text in the tile. The on mouse over may inform that the Jungle tile contains an assortment of birds/snakes/toads/insects, for instance, or that a Forest tile might contain deer/fox/wolf/bear (animals might wary over time, and some animals might be found in multiple tiles), and a unit idling in the tile might suffer attacks from one or more of the units, using the normal battle process. Some units might have the option of intentionally seeking battle against these units, such as scouts/hunters. After such a battle it might end up taking some of them as trophies (subdued animals) to be used as myths or special buildings, using the Outcome system as usual. These trophies can be represented by units, as now, or as promotions that can be removed in cities to convert them into buildings. Tiles within cultural borders might still contain animals in this way, though the chances might be lower. Proximity to cities/improvements might also lower these chances, as will numbers of units (the more units in a stack, the less the chance of being attacked by an animal). Hunters may hunt animals within the borders using this system.
For instance, lets say that during a certain turn the on-mouse-over information might say that a Jungle contains snakes and birds. A player wants a Hunter to seek battle with these animals to get a trophy (subdued animal). Thus, he places the hunter in the tile, and an option light up called "Hunt". In this example let's say that it doubles the chances of a battle taking place. The player presses Hunt, since he wants a fight, and the computer determines whether or not the hunter finds an animal based on chance. It might be 20% base chance of getting a fight, but since the Hunt button was pushed, it becomes 40%. If the computer determines a fight is taking place, it then determines which animal group to fight against (bird), and lastly which specific animal within that group (macaw) that could be found in the tile. Thus, a Macaw is placed on the Hunters tile, and a battle takes place as normal, with the outcome system used as normal. If the Macaw kills the Hunter, it disappears "back into its tile".
This system might reduce some of the clutter of the game world, it might reduce lag by not having to track hundreds of Animal units (or maybe thousands in gigantic maps?) and moving them around every turn (what animals a tile might contain might only be known if a unit stands on the tile, meaning the computer needs only determine this for these tiles and not for every tile), and it might feel more realistic (once it becomes balanced). The civipedia might have a list of the animals every tile can contain. Of course, this makes the terrain more unpredictable and dangerous for lone units. The AI might also get some bonuses on regards to this system, I don't know. I just got the idea now. Thought I'd share it with the community.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
@Dancing Hoskuld
Here are 2 more, an Anteater and a Lemur. Please make them spawn in the appropriate region.
Anteater = South America
Lemur = Africa
@TowerWizard
I have frogs, and even butterflies, but I thought they would be too small to be worth posting.
Here are 2 more, an Anteater and a Lemur. Please make them spawn in the appropriate region.
Anteater = South America
Lemur = Africa
@TowerWizard
I have frogs, and even butterflies, but I thought they would be too small to be worth posting.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
We may need a plague of frogs event.
Can you add a star in the top right, to the following promotion icon. StrategyOnly has asked me to add some stuff for the heroes and I think I can do it better than it is now but need a new button.
Can you add a star in the top right, to the following promotion icon. StrategyOnly has asked me to add some stuff for the heroes and I think I can do it better than it is now but need a new button.
TowerWizard
Warlord
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2008
- Messages
- 277
In the kind of system I just suggested, no animal would be too small. Just adjust the chances as appropriately: harder-top-find and harder-to-catch animals will have a smaller chance of being generated as the animal used for a fight, if the computer decides that a fight will take place. Some might even need to be hunted for, such as birds, frogs and butterflies, as I think it is unrealistic for them to attack you like in some Hitchcock movie I could mention
Such smaller, more harmless animals might not even require a fight to subdue if hunted for, but are instead automatically subdued.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
We may need a plague of frogs event.
Can you add a star in the top right, to the following promotion icon. StrategyOnly has asked me to add some stuff for the heroes and I think I can do it better than it is now but need a new button.
Here you go, Please save as a JPG next time since it saves me some extra steps of converting the DDS into a usable format.
Speaking of subduing animals and the Hunter Line; Hydro or DH, is Poison Tips supposed to give Recon line the poison promotion but not the Hunter line? Would think it's either both or none considering their occupation.
Should also be effective against Hunter line units
(and to a lesser degree gunpowder units, after all despite gunpowder units being able to shoot at a distance not all fights were decided at a distance. Very often, until more modern times, it comes down to close quarter combat for the decider anyway, and in many areas/terrains (forests, jungles, mist, fog, heavy rain, and so on) being gunpowder or not makes no difference at all. Not to mention, but I am, the fact that early gunpowder units had one shot before an enemy could close to fighting distance due to long loading times. If that shot didn't wound severely enough the rest of the fight had nothing to do with gunpowder or not. Being trenched and defending could mean more shots. Could.
Poison should, in my opinion, be available further on down the line too as assassins are very much versed in it's use even today (afaik Snipers aren't the only assassins even today.).
Cheers
Should also be effective against Hunter line units
(and to a lesser degree gunpowder units, after all despite gunpowder units being able to shoot at a distance not all fights were decided at a distance. Very often, until more modern times, it comes down to close quarter combat for the decider anyway, and in many areas/terrains (forests, jungles, mist, fog, heavy rain, and so on) being gunpowder or not makes no difference at all. Not to mention, but I am, the fact that early gunpowder units had one shot before an enemy could close to fighting distance due to long loading times. If that shot didn't wound severely enough the rest of the fight had nothing to do with gunpowder or not. Being trenched and defending could mean more shots. Could.
Poison should, in my opinion, be available further on down the line too as assassins are very much versed in it's use even today (afaik Snipers aren't the only assassins even today.).
Cheers
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
I think it was made before the Hunter line was made. Before they were recon units.
KingArthur666
Warlord
You have some interesting ideas here. I don't know if I like the idea of invisible animals jumping out of no where to kill my workers, but the rest sounds intriguing. I especially would get behind this if it reduce system requirements. I don't like playing on anything smaller than huge, but the game always gets bogged down as I progress and I never finish a game because turns just start taking too long.
TowerWizard
Warlord
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2008
- Messages
- 277
Well, as long as the workers aren't idling in the tile, but actually working on improving it, they are safe. Not sure if it idea is 100% logical, but the idea is that the tiles for the most part just hides the animals within them. They are there, but only passively, in the same way as the woods between cities in real life contain deer and bear and such, but the deer don't attack unless provoked. Actually, deer never attack IRL, so never mind. Hey, that's an idea! Only aggressive animals, like lions, in a tile can attack idlers. The other animals need to be hunted for. And yes, this would probably cut down massively on lag during the middle game, since all those animals that used to roam the game world are now passively inside the tiles, and only needs calculations if units actually search for them.
The origin for this idea is that I think tiles should contain much more than they do at the moment (but I get that this is a game and too much realism would break immersion and such). However, I don't really like how animals are implemented currently. It is too much chance to find them, subdue them and bring them home. It is not logical that tiles inside cultural borders suddenly become animal free. You should be able to hunt in the forest even if it is within your territory. With this idea, you can! Granted, a huge amount of work is needed to implement it, but a man can dream, can't he?
With AIAndy's new generic property system that idea should be a piece of cake TW. Well, for someone that knows how to program at least. *chuckle*
It sounds very interesting and good at any rate. With the new property system tiles can increase in animal population as time goes by, and decrease when a successful hunt has been made. Only Hunter line should be able to do this though, remember Scout units (all Recon units except Wanderer) can only defend.
The bigger and more dangerous (and rare) game can still wander around. Entering a lion packs territory is still dangerous, and who doesn't want to hunt down those elusive Mammoths.
Cheers
It sounds very interesting and good at any rate. With the new property system tiles can increase in animal population as time goes by, and decrease when a successful hunt has been made. Only Hunter line should be able to do this though, remember Scout units (all Recon units except Wanderer) can only defend.
The bigger and more dangerous (and rare) game can still wander around. Entering a lion packs territory is still dangerous, and who doesn't want to hunt down those elusive Mammoths.
Cheers
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
@Dancing Hoskuld
What are you "spawning zones" for animals? Is it ...
Europe/Asia = Northern Hemisphere Old World
Africa = Southern Hemisphere Old World
Americas = Northern Hemisphere New World
Australia = Southern Hemisphere New World
Because In a recent game I felt I was at least in "Australia" with the kinds of animals that spawned, but then I would get some odd animals that did not fit Australia such as Jaguars and Wolves (It would be nice if I could find a Dingo or Thylacinus model).
Perhaps resources like Bison should be limited to the northern hemisphere. It would also be nice if there was a Kangaroo resource.
What are you "spawning zones" for animals? Is it ...
Europe/Asia = Northern Hemisphere Old World
Africa = Southern Hemisphere Old World
Americas = Northern Hemisphere New World
Australia = Southern Hemisphere New World
Because In a recent game I felt I was at least in "Australia" with the kinds of animals that spawned, but then I would get some odd animals that did not fit Australia such as Jaguars and Wolves (It would be nice if I could find a Dingo or Thylacinus model).
Perhaps resources like Bison should be limited to the northern hemisphere. It would also be nice if there was a Kangaroo resource.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
I have been rather ill the last few days, something I ate!
The current split is very rough as it was being tried out. Basically north and south is done by hemisphere. East to west is done by 120 degree splits; -180 to -60 is the Americas, -60 to 60 is Europe/Africa and 60 to 180 is Asia/Oceania. With only lemurs having a very specific range. One problem is that Indonesia has both tigers and (tree) kangaroos. Even at that split you may be missing whole ecosystems. In one game I played all land masses were in the southern hemisphere.
We don't have the ability to do old/new world split based on existing contenents yet.
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
@DH
Is Spartacus different than the rest when fighting subdue animals or something, i have now fought over 40 battles and NO slaves??
Is Spartacus different than the rest when fighting subdue animals or something, i have now fought over 40 battles and NO slaves??
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
You don't get slaves from any animals. Animals are subdued based on the unit combat class hunter or other and promotions only.
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
DUH, my brain fa_ _ed again, i meant units not subdued animals
Dont even know why i wrote in the SA thread.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
Whomever came up with the Loon and put it in, THANK YOU, it is the State of Minnesota's refuse and License Plates for Hunters!
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
@Dancing Hoskuld
Here are some more animals. Included are ...
- Peacock
- Nile Crocodile
- Saltwater Crocodile
- Alligator
Note that the crocs are ment to replace your other crocs ...
Crocodile (Large) = Nile Crocodile
Crocodile (Small) = Alligator
Salt water Crocodile (Large) = Saltwater Crocodile
Salt water Crocodile (Small) = Marine Caiman
Note I still have to do the Marine Caiman. These were hard to do since not only did the models need fixing but I made a text error and it took me forever to track it down.
Also all their data needs to be altered, most of what I put was just so I could see the scale of the modes. For instance the Saltwater Crocodile still has data for land and not sea yet.
If I were to give them native ranges it would be ...
Nile Crocodile = Africa
Alligator = North America and Asia
Saltwater Crocodile = Australia
Peacock = Asia
And I have some other good news. I found some more animals. Where or not I can get them converted is another story. So yay!
Here are some more animals. Included are ...
- Peacock
- Nile Crocodile
- Saltwater Crocodile
- Alligator
Note that the crocs are ment to replace your other crocs ...
Crocodile (Large) = Nile Crocodile
Crocodile (Small) = Alligator
Salt water Crocodile (Large) = Saltwater Crocodile
Salt water Crocodile (Small) = Marine Caiman
Note I still have to do the Marine Caiman. These were hard to do since not only did the models need fixing but I made a text error and it took me forever to track it down.
Also all their data needs to be altered, most of what I put was just so I could see the scale of the modes. For instance the Saltwater Crocodile still has data for land and not sea yet.
If I were to give them native ranges it would be ...
Nile Crocodile = Africa
Alligator = North America and Asia
Saltwater Crocodile = Australia
Peacock = Asia
And I have some other good news. I found some more animals. Where or not I can get them converted is another story. So yay!
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