Succession game (Deity)

[Elear]

Overseer, you are up.

 

[TheOverseer714]

Got it. Will try to play tonight, and if I can't finish, I will play more tomorrow night. I hope I'll get done before the weekend.

 

[TheOverseer714]

I played 9 turns. We are at war with Arabia, and I took 2 cities. We are positioned to take 1 more next turn. Here is my turn-log:

Spoiler :

Pre-flight: get the save loaded, programs up and running(Word, Civ Assist 2). Change some clowns to taxmen, changed Longbows to Knights.

Non-Combatants
Settlers 2
Workers 15 Slaves 13
Scouts 1
Military
Horsemen 20
Pikemen 3
Catapults 5, 2 captured
Armies 2 Horsemen
Impis 4
MDI 16
Trebuchets 10, 1 captured

Hit enter=>

IBT: Netherlands ally India against Egypt.
Gandhi demands Ivory, I cave without question.
Lincoln whines, but doesn’t actually boot.

620 AD: move troops toward Arabs.
Are we seriously going to honor 91 gpt to America for peace?

IBT: India allies Vikings against America. Maybe that’ll get rid of Baltimore soon.
Lincoln boots us.
Dallas worker=>worker.
Chicago ettler=>trebuchet.
Islandawana MDI=>MDI.
San Francisco worker=>trebuchet.
Ngome marketplace=>MDI.
Bukhara settler=>Harbor.
Umfolozi trebuchet=>settler.

630 AD: Moving more units, I can DoW soon.

IBT: India allies Netherlands vs Persia. These wars are really expanding.
640 AD: Almost ready. I am assuming settlers are for raze and replace?

IBT: Vikings take St Louis.
Carthage gets allied with Vikings vs America.
Carthage allies with Scandinavia vs Rome.
Lincoln offers alliance vs Carthage and an RoP… yeah, right!
Ulundi LB=>knight.
Hlobane LB=>knight.
Houston worker=>Temple.
Tugela settler=>Marketplace.

650 AD: New Intombe settled near New York=>trebuchet.

IBT: New York worker=>trebuchet.
Swazi LB=>Knight.
Umtata settler=>trebuchet.
Isipezi trebuchet=>trebuchet.

660 AD: I have to retreat massed troops near Mansura due to cultural expansion.

IBT: Babylon and Rome ally vs Persia.
Rome demands territory map and 35 gold, I cave, of course.
Zimbabwe knight=>knight.
Washington worker=>Temple.
Bapedi knight=>knight.

670 AD: DoW on Arabia.

IBT: Rome and India ally vs America.
Vikings make peace with Arabia.: (
Aden worker=>trebuchet.

680AD: Aden riots.
One treb at Yamama knocks 1 hp off Musket.
Battle of Yamama: vMDI loses to rMusket, taking 1 hp.
vMDI loses to 3hp vMusket, taking 2 hp.
vMDI loses to 2hp rMusket, taking 1 hp, but he promotes.
vHorse loses to 2hp vMusket who again promotes.
vMDI loses to 2hp eMusket, taking 1 hp. Are we detecting a pattern here?
eMDI wins vs red-lined vMusket, -2hp.
vMDI wins vs red-lined eMusket clean and Yamama is ours.
I was tempted to burn it as costly as it was but we need to preserve attitude now that the AI’s are buzzing like angry bees.
Founded New Mpondo near Chicago.
Set up for taking Mansura next turn.

IBT: Horse retreats from LB at Merw, Pike survives -2hp at Mansura.
Islandawana MDI=>MDI.
Ngome MDI=>knight.
New Zimbabwe settler=>trebuchet.
Ibabanago trebuchet=>Courthouse.
Amatikulu trebuchet=>Marketplace.

690 AD: Red-line a horse and knight, killing a regular Longbow at Merw, RNG is not my friend this turn-set. I take that back. After red-lining both Muskets at Mansura, First attack at Mansura yields an MGL.
Battle of Mansura, eHorse wins vs red-lined rMusket, we get a leader!

eMDI wins vs red-lined vMusket, -1hp, and Mansura is ours! We get 3 slaves and a trebuchet.
Abe has 8 workers to sell but wants 160 per, no flipping way!

IBT: America has been destroyed, and we get our money back! Unfortunately, we lose a potential “trading partner”(read extortion victim).
Dallas worker=>trebuchet.
Mpondo longbow=>MDI.
Zunguin trebuchet=>Marketplace.

700 AD: eHorse wins red-lined vMusket clean to take 2 Arab slaves.
We can now buy Chemistry from pretty much anyone, but I will wait for the next player and a team discussion. We have spare saltpeter now, and the best deals include it.

Non-Combatants
Settlers 4 native 1 foreign
Workers 15 Slaves 25
Scouts 1
Military
Horsemen 19
Pikemen 2
Longbows 4
Catapults 5, 3 captured.
Knights 2
Armies 3, 2 Horsemen, 1 empty.
Impis 1
MDI 15
Trebuchets 16, 2 captured

Here is 1 picture showing most of our humble empire:


Here is the save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/110452/SGDeity_Overseer__700_AD.SAV

We have an empty army, which means we can fill it with MDIs, Knights, or wait for Cavalry. We can now purchase at least 1 tech now that America is gone, maybe more with a 2nd salt hooked up. I like trading with Persia, they are next to go. We need to trade immediately, the salt and money will attract bullies, and we might as well get something with them.

 

[ThinkTank]

Looks like a solid set Overseer. Horses and MDI loosing to muskets is not really surprising. A leader is very nice, I say a knight army. How is the tech situation, how far are we behind?

 

[Elear]

Trade for what we can, as long as they are required techs. With the amount we are behind, we can't afford to be particularly picky, nor will it do any good. I doubt we can make any tech for tech trades for awhile. When we sue Arabia, we want to try to get something good from them. We want to preferably get to Metallurgy ASAP then go for Military Tradition. We need a good force of Cavalry to stand a chance at ultimately taking over the most advanced civilations. Sue sue sue sue sue sue sue. By the time we get Cavalry, they will be well into the IA, and we will be again suing like crazy.

It seems that the tech leaders (India, Carthage, Rome, Vikings) are just getting the first IA techs: Nationalism, Steam Power to be specific.

We should either sign with India against Carthage, or with Rome against the Vikings. Either one will be Knights and Cannons v. Riflemen.
I agree with a knight army because it doesn't seem like we're quite at Cavalry yet. Even if we trade for a tech or two, we need: Chemistry, Physics, Metallurgy, Military Tradition. I do not think with tech trading and suing Arabia, that this will happen in a decent amount of time. The Knight Army will be more valuable because our first attack (as I said) against Carthage or Vikings will be with Knights. Then we can build Cavalry and try to get somewhere.

Or alternatively, we can risk waiting for Cavalry, but not only will Cavalry take longer to build than Knights (especially w/o rails), but also we need to get into wars. The more we war, the more techs we extort. Our experience with horsemen versus muskets will be very similar to the nasty knight v. rifle war.

To borrow a line from SirPleb, there isn't realistically a way to save armies, when it is more important to survive first.

 

[TheOverseer714]

We can get Chemistry cheapest from Persia, they need salt bad. There might be enough left for Education from someone, maybe not. Whatever the case, the salt must be traded or unhooked, it will attract demands from several countries lacking it. The money must also be spent for the same reason. There are several settlers that could be planted soon, reducing our unit support some. If nothing else appears trade-wise, we could upgrade a few units with the extra gpt. Take 1-2 more Arab towns and we might get a tech or 2 from them in the peace deal. I would be wary of war with Carthage, India seems more interested in Persia right now. Wait until they start taking a good chunk out before declaring. Oh and we might want to get Arabias salt before they get some horses and get Cavalry, that could give us a bad day.

 

[ThinkTank]

Who's up? I can play a turnset in the weekend.

 

[TheOverseer714]

I can't find a roster, so I'd say if you want it, it's yours. I just played, Tusker was before me, and Elear was before him, so go for it.

 

[Elear]

I'm up but ThinkTank, you may go next. I don't feel very well at the moment.

then we will resume as normal with this order:

Elear
Tusk
TT
Overseer

 

[ThinkTank]

Got it. Will play on Sunday.

 

[ThinkTank]

Have been playing but not finished yet. Hope to finish the set Tuesday. Right now all is well, we conquered Najran and bought chemistry from the Persians. India and Persia signed peace on the first IBT.

 

[ThinkTank]

Cannot play tonight because I have to play unexpectedly as a substitute in a bridge match. Will finish tomorrow.

I have a question about an issue in the game right now. There are about 15 Cathaginian cavs in our territory, moving to Arabia it seems, they have been shelling Merw heavily with frigates. I have not been daring to boot them, figuring if they come after us we're dead anyway, and I don't want to give them an incentive right now. This is a bit tricky. It looks like we cannot afford to have 1 defender in each town, so that means that they may get attracted by an undefended city. This is a bit of a catch 22. What do you think? Just hope for the best? Or boot them?

Edit: additionally, our chances at taking Merw have been heavily reduced by the fact that it has been reinforced by something like 6 Arab MDIs the turn after I moved the (small) stack in, and they have already picked of two units of that stack in the last IBT (turn is yet to be played). I will withdraw it because right now we do no have a chance at taking the city. The Carthaginian cavs are probably heading for Merw.

 

[TheOverseer714]

We may need to let them soften Merw up and hope we can take it with a well-timed Knight. I would say we need to grit our teeth and let them through, as they could really hurt us. My experience is that if you ask a superior power to leave, they will declare. Do we really want a war with Carthage right now? I saw no evidence that India was pressing their war with Carthage, so they wouldn't have much trouble swabbing the deck with us.

 

[Elephantium]

We want to fight Carthage relatively soon, but we want to fight them on our terms, not on theirs. I say let them through.

 

[ThinkTank]

Played 1 more turn yesterday; on the IBT before that, Carthage signed peace with Arabia and the Carthaginian cavs have started leaving our terriritory. Phew. I think they could have taken 10 cities of ours if they'd wanted too.

There's no way we can fight Carthage without having our forces move towards our Northern border, meaning that the Arab war must be finished. Right now it appears we need at least one more Arab town, maybe two, in order to get a good deal out of the peace treaty. I think we can get 1 more town in 2 turns, maybe another one in 3 turns.

Even then fighting Carthage will mean we will be facing attacks from a force of at least 15 to 20 cavs, possibly more, this is the number I have seen. This means we will be loosing cities, since we cannot reinforce all our border cities in the North to be able to withstand such a serious cav attack there. Also, we do not have a mobile force strong enough that we can destroy or significantly hurt the Carthaginain cav force on the counterattack and reconquer any lost cities. Summarizing, I really think going to war with Carthage is a no go for the near future. Since cavalry seems to be all around now, I think we should actually ally with them to some AI that is on the other side of them, so that they can take the heat.

More tonight.

 

[ThinkTank]

Ok I'm in turn 7 now; we just captured Merw and Medina. Arabs are now willing to give education + 4g for peace. I think we should do that. Carths want 94 gpt and ivory for metallurgy. This is a lot, but I think we should do that too. Question is then who are we going to beat up next. We can wait till the end of turnset or else decide now. If we make the deal with the Carths then our NW borders will be relatively safe and Elears suggestion of allying with Rome against the Vikings looks good. Drawback of that is we have to go through Arab country.

My proposal right now is to do both deals. In the reminder I will not start a new war but try to insult Arabia into declaring on us again, they are very weak right now, us having pillaged their salt . We can discuss strategy for the next war(s) after my turnset.

 

[ThinkTank]

I've played. We bought chemistry and metallurgy and extorted education. We conquered Najran, Medina and Merw. We are at peace now.


The turnlog.

Spoiler :

Turn 0: 700 AD

Move some horses from Mansura towards nearest rax city for upgrade.
Buy chemistry from Persia for salt, 60 gpt, WM and 105g. They turn polite.
Metallurgy is not affordable, Education is close.
Lux is at 30%, can be reduced to 20%.
Do an MM round of all cities, not much.

IBT
India and Persia sign a peace treaty. :-(
Carths and Dutch sign peace. :-(
7 Carth frigates shell the Arab city of Merw; looks like there are at least three defenders there.
A lot of Carth cavalry enter our lands.
Babs and Egypt sign peace.
Egypt demands territory map and 32 gold, I hesitate but I cave, I want the Arab war finished first.
Babs want to talk, they want an alliance against the Persians and a ROP, nah.
An Arab MDI at Yamama looses to a knight, 1-0.
New Ulundi: treb -> treb.

Turn 1: 710 AD

Battle of Najran, round 1
Trebs produce 3 hits 4 misses.
Cats 1 hit 2 misses.
There are at least 4 defending muskets. Postpone attack 1 turn for adding more attackers and cats+trebs to the stack.

Move smaller stack on Merw.
We now do 76 gpt, we cannot get metallurgy for this and all our gold (426) and WM.

IBT
Carth frigates shell the Arab city of Merw again.
Around 15 Carth cavs in our land keep approaching towards Merw.
2 Arab musket/settler pairs leaving Najran to NE.
Zimbabwe riots, and so does Ulundi, :-( ,then scroll forward to check happiness everywhere.
I don't get this, everything looked fine end of turn. War Weariness?
Hlobane: knight -> knight

Turn 2: 720 AD
Reinforce stack at Merw, plan to attack next turn.
At San Francisco, an eHorse redlines against an Arab musket, but retreats.
vMDI kills the musket and goes elite: 2-0

Battle of Najran, round 2.
Trebs: 5 hits, 3 misses.
Cats: 3 hits, 3 misses.
There are 4 defending muskets, three are now redlined, 1 has 2 hp.
1st horse army - 2hp musket: wins but losses 5hp: 3-0.
2nd horse army - 1hp musket: wins but losses 3hp: 4-0.
eMDI - 1hp musket: wins; 5-0
eHorse - 1hp musket: wins; 6-0
We own Najran and gain a worker and 2 trebs.

Cannot get Education for peace from Arabs, need to take another city or two.
Rush a musket at San Francisco because an Arab musket is moving towards our iron there, and there is no guarantee we can kill it next turn.

IBT
Carth frigates shell the Arab city of Merw again.
Carth cavs in our land keep approaching towards Merw.
At Mansura a Carth cav kills an Arab musket/settler pair.
Arab MDI force approaching Dallas moves into Merw instead.
At Merw, two Arab MDIs attack our stack and kill a knight and an MDI: 6-2.
San Francisco: musket -> treb.

Turn 3: 730 AD
1st knight army formed.
Upgrade 1 horse to knight.
Fortify musket at iron near San Francisco.
Move small stack (5MDI, 2LB, 4 trebs) away from Merw since the city now has an estimated 4 muskets plus 5 MDI garrison.
The stack will be reinforced with the knight army next turn and 2-3 trebs in 2-3 turns.
Move all but 1 unit out of Najran to address the flip risk there (14-27.9 % according to CAII).

IBT
Scandinavia demands territory map and 17g, I cave.
Arabs and Carths sign a peace treaty. :-( I hold my breath since what could the Carth cavs in our land now be up to? Take a couple of cities of ours, say 10-12 cities or so? No, they start moving out. Phew.
Arabs attack our retreating stack at Merw and kill 2 MDIs of ours and loose 1 themselves: 7-4.
Zimbabwe: knight -> knight.
Bapedi riots. :-(
New Hlobane: settler -> treb.

Turn 4: 740 AD
At Shiraz, a treb gets 1 hp of an Arab musket and an LB kills it: 8-4.
At Yamama, in stack that retreated form Merw treb redlines an Arab MDI, and 3 trebs get 1 hp off an 3hp LB.
The knight army covers the stack and kills the redlined MDI. 9-4
vKnight kills the LB, 10-4.
I move 1 horse army on the Arab salt east of Mansura.
Move stack near Najran to the Arab city south of Najran.
Metal is still too expensive.
Arab peace for education is close deal. Not yet.
Education we can now buy for WM and 79gpt. I wait; I want to consider the options in a turn or 2 when the Arabs deals gets better.

IBT
3 Arab MDIs leave Merw to the North, 2 tiles from Dallas.
An Arab MDI kills itself on an MDI of us fortified at the mountain near Najran: 11-4.
Carth and Roma cavs fight it out S of Buffalo.
Ulundi: knight -> knight
Bapedi: knight -> knight
Isandlwana: MDI -> musket
Swazi: knight -> aqueduct

Turn 5: 750 AD
Horse army has not been attacked on the Arab salt in the IT and now pillages it. Hesitate about leaving or staying on the salt but I decide to stay there.
Large stack moves on hills near Medina.
Reinforce small stack at Yamama, will move on Merw next turn.
Upgrade 1 horse to knight.

IBT
4 Arab MDIs move on hill next to Dallas.

Turn 6: 760 AD
Near Dallas a counterattack by 4 MDI threatens; it has only a horse, but we reinforce it with a horse, an MDI, an LB, a treb and 2 knights.

Battle for Medina:
Trebs hit 3 miss 5.
Cats hit 1 miss 1.
There are only 2 defenders and both are redlined now.
eMDI - redlined musket: we win: 12-4.
eHorse - redlined pike: we win: 13-4.
Medina is ours.

Upgrade 1 horse.
Chop outside our culture border near Hloblane adds 10s to a knight build.
Deal with Scandinavia expires next turn (peace tied with us delivering ivory and iron).
Arabs: peace for education is close, but they still want additional money (4gpt). Let's see what they say after we conquer Merw next turn.
Metal cannot be bought for 89gpt (all we have).
New Ngome founded.

IBT
Carths demand territory map and 19g, I cave.
Arabs want to talk, offering straight peace, no, we'll talk after they have lost Merw.
Arab counter attack at Dallas, they loose 3 MDI and we 1 knight, 16-5.
Hlobane: knight -> musket.
New Bapedi: treb -> treb.
Shiraz riots.

Turn 7: 770 AD
At Dallas we kill the last remaining Arab MDI: 17-5. Counterattack gone.

Battle for Merw
Trebs get 3 hits out of 5. The knight army then kills 3 (damaged) muskets: 20-5.
Merw is ours.

Talk to Arabs, the deal is now peace and education and 4g (all they have).
We can buy metallurgy from the Carths for 94 gpt and ivory.
Ask the question whether to do these deals in the forum, but no one answers, so I do both deals.
New Swazi founded -> worker.
Change Dallas to rax for updating cats/trebs to cannons.
Change New Burundi to build worker instead of a cannon.
Change 2 knight builds to muskets, since we are a bit thin on the defensive units in our stacks.
Do an MM round of all cities, since we are at peace now, and the happiness situation is much better now, we were clearly suffering form war weariness.
Notice ice that the Cart city of Malaca already has a railroad tile.

IBT
India and Arabia ally against Egypt, Arabia declares on Egypt.
Arabs boot our horse army on their salt, we comply.
Resistance ends in Merw, turn all citizens to tax collectors to starve it.
We get an addition to our palace.

Turn 8: 780 AD
New Tugela founded -> worker.
Ac hop adds to market build in Amitukulu.

IBT Not much

Turn 9: 790 AD
Rush rax in Dallas for upgrading our cats and trebs.
Change build in Shiraz to court

IBT
India destroys Egypt.
Zimbabwe: musket -> Heroic Epic
Dallas: rax -> musket
Mpondo: MDI -> worker
India starts Universal Suffrage

Turn 10: 800 AD
Set former Arab cities back to starvation. Other than that, all units still have movement.

The save.

 

[TheOverseer714]

India destroyed Egypt pretty fast. Hopefully that will free their troops to whale on Carthage awhile. They are at war, or were during my turn. It seems like our salt saved Persia for awhile. Anyway, good work on the trades and getting some more arab towns. Maybe one or 2 more cycles and they will be gone. We can slowly climb out of the hole we're in if we can play our cards right. The second source of salt may be our key. There will always be India in this game to watch out for. They seem able to crush anyone they want to

 

[ThinkTank]

Carthage and India are at peace now, I think they have been so in my whole turn. Carhage is fighting Rome and appears to winning that.

I'm really quite sceptic still about our chances in this game. If one of the major forces unleashes their cav force on us then we're a goner. Well at least we are 1 tech away from cavs ourselves.

Our production capacity is really quite bad, for a large part because we don't have the FP yet. It is currently under construction in Muscat but according to CAII, Shiraz would be better. Looking at the map, that figures, FP in Muscat would only help the distance corruption in he former American cities in the North, which are all mediocre plains cities. The FP in Shiraz would help the cities in the East, in former Arabia, which is much better terrain. Build in Muscat can still be switched to a court. My suggestion would be to rush a court in Shiraz and then set it to build the FP. Even then, if we get an MGL before the FP completes, I think we should use it to rush the FP, dumping any shields in the FP build into a market.

 

[Elephantium]

Carthage and India are at peace now, I think they have been so in my whole turn. Carhage is fighting Rome and appears to winning that.

I'm really quite sceptic still about our chances in this game. If one of the major forces unleashes their cav force on us then we're a goner. Well at least we are 1 tech away from cavs ourselves.

Remember, all we have to do in order to win this game is hold out until RP. Arty + infantry + cavs in human hands =

Sure, we have to be careful until we have a SoD built, but I'm confident that we can navigate world diplomacy to stay alive until we're ready to bring .