Succession game (Deity)

Ahh, Starcraft. Delightful game. It remains my all-time favorite game (even above Civ3!).

Strangely enough, I was one of the naysayers who sneered "Warcraft in space, that's dumb" when I first heard about it.
 
Dang, horses versus muskets? How's that going to work? :lol:
 
Elear said:
Dang, horses versus muskets? How's that going to work? :lol:
Click to expand...

Lots of losses until we can get an MDI stack going :)

I'm hoping for a leader and an MDI army - at a lower level, I'd say "Knight army", but I'm not so sure we'll have any knights available if we manage a Leader in this war.
 
Yeah I'm up for this. :p
 
We're still alive! :king:

Using the horsemen against muskets really wasn't as bad as I thought, and the horsemen armies were a great help too. Once I got some MDIs coming, I was able to make something happen.

Pre-turn: One thought...eek.

IT: The Egyptians are building Shakespeare's Theatre

480 AD (1): Declare war on America.

Horseman Army beats rMusket in Dallas. (1-0)
Horseman Army beats rPikeman in Dallas. (2-0)
Zulu capture the American city of Dallas.
Dallas -> Pikeman.
Fortify stack + impi in Dallas, start starving out the resisters.

Horseman Army beats vMusket in Detroit. (3-0)
vHorseman beats rMusket in Detroit. (4-1)
vHorseman loses to rMusket in Detroit. (4-1)
eHorseman beats rMusket in Detroit. (5-1)
Zulu raze the American city of Detroit (gain 3 workers).

IT: Egypt and Vikings sign for peace. American Knight kills a fortified Impi near the ashes of Detroit. (5-2) Resistance in Dallas has ended. Persians building Bach's. Carthaginians building Newton's. India building Newton's. Both hit the Industrial Age.

490 AD (2):

Zimbabwe MDI -> MDI
Hlobane MDI -> MDI
New Zimbabwe Worker -> Settler
Shiraz Settler -> Trebuchet
Ibabanago Settler -> Trebuchet

vHorseman loses to vKnight, promoting it. (5-3)
vHorseman beats eKnight. (6-3)
vHorseman loses to rKnight. (6-4)
eHorseman beats rKnight. (7-4)

IT: India declares war on Carthage. Egyptians building Smith's. Carthage completes Shakespeare's. American Knights kill 3 horsemen (none retreat???) but lose a Knight to one of our MDIs. (8-7) Vikings building Smith's. Indians building Bach's. Indians building Newton's. Egyptian Knight spotted.

500 AD (3):

Both trebuchet rounds miss at Houston.

vMDI loses to rMusket in Houston, doesn't even hurt it. Promotes it. (8-8)
vHorseman retreats to vMusket in Houston.
vHorseman retreats to vMusket in Houston.
rHorseman retreats to rMusket in Houston.
vHorseman retreats to rMusket in San Francisco.
vHorseman retreats to rMusket in San Francisco.
vHorseman retreats to rMusket in San Francisco.
vHorseman loses to rMusket in San Francisco. (8-9)
vHorseman retreats to rMusket in San Francisco.
vHorseman retreats to rMusket in San Francisco.
vHorseman beats rMusket in San Francisco. (9-9)
vHorseman loses to rMusket in San Francisco. Promotes it. (9-10)
vHorseman beats rMusket in San Francisco. It promotes to Elite. (10-10)
eHorseman beats rLongbow in San Francisco. (11-10)
Zulu capture the American city of San Francisco (and one of their iron sources).
San Francisco starts a pikeman.
Stack moved into San Francisco.
vHorseman beats rLongbow. It promotes to Elite. (12-10)
vMDI beats rKnight. It promotes to Elite. (13-10)
Dallas Pikeman -> Temple

IT: Dutch and India sign against Carthage. America and Carthage sign against India. Dutch and Persia sign for peace. American Knight kills a vImpi. (13-11) Resistance in San Francisco ends. Egypt building Smith's.

510 AD (4):

Swazi MDI -> MDI

Horsemen Army beats rMusket in Chicago. (14-11)
Trebuchet hits Egyptian Knight, down to 2/5.
Egyptian Knight retreats to vMDI attack.r
rImpi beats vKnight. (15-11)

IT: Egyptian Knight loses to a vHorseman. (16-11) American longbow loses to a vImpi. (17-11) American longbow beats a vMDI. (17-12) American knight beats a vMDI. (17-13) Carthage completes Bach's. Vikings, Dutch, Indians building Smith's. Indians building Newton's.

520 AD (5):

Bapedi MDI -> MDI
Mpondo Pikeman -> Pikeman
Ngome riots. Use entertainer to quell the riot.

Catapult hits rMusket in Chicago.
Catapult misses at Chicago.
vMDI loses to rMusket in Chicago. (17-14)
vMDI loses to rMusket in Chicago, promoting it. (17-15)
vHorseman retreats to rMusket in Chicago.
vMDI beats rMusket in Chicago. It promotes to Elite. (18-15)
eMDI beats rLongbow in Chicago. (19-15)
Zulu capture the American city of Chicago.
Chicago starts on Pikeman.
Move what troops I can into Chicago.

Horsemen Army beats rMusket at Miami. (20-15)
Horsemen Army beats rMusket at Miami. (21-15)
Zulu capture the American city of Miami.
Miami starts on Pikeman.
Move stack into Miami.

eHorseman beats vLongbow. (22-15)
Trebuchet hits vMDI.
vHorseman loses to rKnight, promoting it. (22-16)
vMDI loses to vKnight, promoting it. (22-17)
vMDI attacks eKnight, and it retreats.

Found New Hlobane. Start on Settler.

Check diplomacy screen. Lincoln is now at the stage where he will give the most minor of cities, but no techs.

IT: Egypt and India sign against Carthage. American vMDI beats our vMDI. American vMDI beats our vImpi at Chicago. (22-19) Quell 1 resister at Chicago. The resistance in Miami has ended. Romans, Americans, Egyptians are building Smith's. Egyptians complete Smith's. Carthaginians, Indians building Newton's.

530 AD (6):

Zimbabwe MDI -> MDI.
Hlobane MDI -> MDI.

Found New Isandhlwana. Start on settler.

eHorseman beats vMDI. (23-19)

IT: Arabia and India sign against Carthage. Romans building Newton's. Romans complete Newton's. Romans hit the Industrial Age. 1 resister quelled in Chicago.

540 AD (7):

Luxuries to 30 percent as level 1 war weariness hits. Much less GPT being earned, but nothing I can do.

Sign peace with Egypt for 4 gold and some tiny city in the ruins of part of Persia: Lisht.

Lisht is a huge flip risk, good for nothing way up north, and won't hold under Persian cultural pressure. I gift it to Persia. Persia needs to be revived to its former power so as to help stop India. With the dogpile on Carthage and only two civs at war with India (unfortunately America and Carthage), I think aiming for more powers able to handle India is a key goal.

IT: Arabia and Egypt sign peace. Egypt and Rome sign against Persia (great). Two American longbows lose against vMDIs. (25-19) One of our workers is captured. Another resister quelled in Chicago.

550 AD (8):

There is fair bit of rioting regardless of the luxuries @ 30 percent; I try to deal with it.

We are now 'strong' to the Americans.

Horsemen Army beats a rMusket at Buffalo. (26-19)
vHorseman beats a rMusket at Buffalo. (27-19)
Zulu capture the American city of Buffalo.
Buffalo starts Pikeman.

Trebuchet misses at Houston.
Trebuchet hits vMusket at Houston to 3/4.
Trebuchet hits rMusket at Houston to 2/3.
vHorseman retreats to vMusket in Houston. I find they have cannons.
vHorseman loses to vMusket in Houston. (27-20)
vMDI beats rMusket in Houston. (28-20)
vMDI loses to vMusket in Houston, and it promotes. (28-21)
vMDI beats eMusket in Houston, destroying a cannon. (29-21)
Zulu capture the American city of Houston (second source of American iron).
Houston starts on Settler.
Muscat Temple -> Settler.
Chicago Pikeman -> Settler.

Trebuchet misses rMDI.
Trebuchet hits rMDI to 2/3.
Trebuchet hits rMDI to 1/3.
eHorseman beats rMDI. (30-21)
eMDI beats vMDI. (31-21)

Americans still frustrate me in that terrible stubbornness. They won't give up any techs for peace. (Chivalry - Almost, Theology - Doubtful, Invention - Doubtful)

Notice that the Vikings are also in the Industrial Age now. Figure out by checking for MPP signing ability that Carthage and India and Rome have Nationalism, while the Vikings don't.

IT: American MDI loses to eHorseman. American Knight beats vMDI at Houston. (32-22) Miami deposes to America.

560 AD (9):

Bapedi MDI -> MDI.
Swazi MDI -> MDI.
Tugela Trebuchet -> Settler.
vHorseman retreats to rMusket in Washington.
vHorseman retreats to rMusket in Washington.
vHorseman beats rMusket in Washington. (33-22)
vHorseman retreats to vSpear in Washington.
vHorseman beats vSpear in Washington. (34-22)

Horsemen Army beats rMusket in New York. (35-22)
Horsemen Army beats rMusket in New York. (36-22)
vHorseman beats vLongbow in New York. A cannon is destroyed. (37-22)
Zulu capture the American city of New York.
New York starts on Pikeman.

eHorseman retreats to rMusket in Miami.
eMDI beats eKnight. (38-22)

Trebuchet misses rMusket.
Trebuchet hits rMusket to 2/3.
Trebuchet hits rMusket to 1/3.
vMDI beats rMusket. (39-22)

Muscat Settler -> Trebuchet.

IT: Babylon and India sign against America. 2 resisters quelled in New York. 4 resisters quelled in Houston. The resistance in Buffalo has ended.

570 AD (10):

Zimbabwe MDI -> MDI
Isandhlwana Library -> Temple

Horsemen Army beats rMusket in Washington. (40-22)
vHorseman beats rSpear in Washington. (41-22)
Zulu capture the American city of Washington.
Washington starts on Settler.

Screenshot:

map570adsgdeity.JPG


Post-turn: At least we are making good progress against America. The unfortunate part is how far behind in tech we are. We are a whole era behind India, Carthage, Rome, Vikings, the tech leaders. (Creating wars between them would be excellent, although we nearly share borders with all of them now) Egypt, Arabia, America, Dutch, Persia are all in the late MA. Babylon is backwards.

Since we already weakened Arabia, we need to launch an attack against them to try to sue them after America. I think something like this may work:

Sue America for peace.
Declare war against Arabia.
Declare war against America.
Sue Arabia and America for peace.
Finish off America and declare war on Arabia.
Sue Arabia again.
Finish off Arabia.

Again, a guess, but it would be nice if we could get a few techs each round of suing. Both civs are weakened and ideal targets to snipe cities off of. Every other civ near us is basically suicide (they have cavalry and/or rifles, lots of knights/muskets already, and better production/research than us).

I know by seeing cannons that America has Metallurgy, so we should be able to get well towards the IA by suing.

Only downside I think is no leaders, despite my best attempts to get one.

Also, India has not captured any Carthaginian cities yet, but that is perhaps because their army was up in Persia. They have so much gold (11k) and Leonardo's Workshop, so I wouldn't count out all of their War Elephants getting upgraded to Cavalry. :eek:

In any case, India scares me a lot...truly, I don't know what we will do. My only hope is that the AIs will continue to go wild with war. I wish they stacked against India instead of Carthage, though.

Notes to next player: Seattle (their new capital) should ready to attack in a turn or two. Miami should be ready to be taken next turn. Incense in Boston would be nice to take before suing. I think suing for Theology, Chivalry, and Invention is a good goal. Right now, we can almost get two of those.

Any troops you make should be sent towards the Arabian borders. I have just started to do so. Hopefully we can make Knights soon instead of MDI. I believe we have enough troops in America to do whatever we want to them. Keep building settlers in non-core cities to try to fill gaps...we need them in American lands badly, and will in Arabia. I have been capturing cities and quelling resisters to prevent poaching, but I see places where it could still happen.

Lastly, border cities will probably want to make temples or defenders, depending on their location and need.

Best of luck. :)

Roster:

Elear (just played)
Elephantium (up)
ThinkTank (on deck)
Overseer (in the hole)

The save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/104555/Elear01_570AD.SAV
 
As always, take your time. These turns take awhile now, because we have so little of anything to work with, that losing just one unit is a blow to our efforts.

So, I take quality over speed. :)

p.s. - I just remembered another reason I want that incense and possibly another luxury soon: to lower the luxury rate. We don't have the cash to afford to buy luxuries and still have any chance at the tech race. America has a fourth luxury beyond the incense, but it is in the NE end of their empire, so it will most likely be taken in the redeclaration of war after their peace concession.
 
Elephantium said:
IIRC, we can get Spices from the Arabs as soon as we declare war - we just need to plant a city in the wake of our invasion.
Click to expand...

I think these were already poached in Overseer's last set, you can see that (barely) in the screenshot in that set.
 
Pre-turn:

We're doing okay. We have America on the run, so we can keep :hammer: on them until they cough up the techs we need.
Likewise, we should be able to :deadhorse: Arabia without any troubles; they're backward like us.

I think our next war needs to be Carthage, though. With the wars they're in, we can seize the moment and add another layer to our core (and retake Intombe!) without worrying that they'll descend on us like a horde of locusts.

I was disturbed when I checked out F3. We've been facing Muskets at def. 4 already, and it will be a while before we can get Cavs vs. the AI Rifles we'll be seeing soon. We desperately need at least another dozen Trebs to help bomb down defenders and keep our MDIs alive. Knights aren't a magic bullet; although they're nice, they won't suddenly make our problems go away.

Finally, we should work on stockpiling gold and making steal attempts on civs like Egypt, Netherlands, Babylon, and Persia. Short wars from failed attempts won't be a problem due to distance, and it will help us (along with our techs-for-peace program) to leapfrog to the IA.
 
We really need to build the FP. Does anyone have thoughts on where to put it?

Tugela or Muscat seem like good options - they have some mountains and/or hills to work. Houston or Seattle or St. Louis also seem like good spots.

Edit: Also, we have an extra source of Ivory now - I killed our Ivory/Iron deal with Carthage. Our best bet for trading it off looks like buying Theology or Chivalry or Invention from the Vikings in exchange for Iron + Ivory. Team, what do you think?

I'm going to hold off on playing my turns until we've had time to discuss.
 
I'm not against that sort of trade to the Vikings. Right now, we need anything we can get.

For the FP, Muscat or Seattle seems good. They are on about 2.5 cities out from the capital, and although Seattle has a cattle, Muscat may provide better productivity to some of our native cities in the east.
 
I'll make the trade with the Vikes and start the FP in Muscat or Seattle, depending on which looks better once I review the save again.

Edit:

America has been brought to its knees. I think we need to sign peace right now or risk having her destroyed before we can extract any techs from her.

Lincoln will offer Gunpowder, Theo, OR Chivalry straight up. Getting all three will cost 92 gpt.

I favor including all three; with luck, Gandhi and Willie will take Lincoln's last two cities and relieve us from the gpt payments.
 
Elephantium said:
I favor including all three; with luck, Gandhi and Willie will take Lincoln's last two cities and relieve us from the gpt payments.
Click to expand...

I agree. If we can afford it, let's take all three. Even if the deal lasts the full 20 turns, 1840 gold does not sound too bad a deal.
 
Switch New Ulundi, Dallas, New Bapedi to Trebs.
Switch Isandhlwana to MDI.
Switch Bukhara to Settler
Move a couple of units out of cities to avoid losing them in the event of a flip.

Since we now have our own source of Iron, Dial up Hannibal and cancel our Ivory-for-Iron deal. It saves us 24gpt, too.

MM cities a bit. We're doing okay, but I fiddle with most of the American cities a bit.

Trade Ivory+Iron to the Vikings in exchange for Invention + 11g + terr. map.

IT:

Rome and India sign MA vs. Carthage.
Scandinavia and Carthage sign MA vs. Arabia and against Egypt.
Houston deposes us. :wallbash:

Turn 1 (580 AD):

vMDI kills redlined musket in Miami and promotes, we own the city.
Hire clowns in Aden and Isandhlwana to prevent riots.

IT:

Arg, India just conquered Seattle.
Dutch want MA vs. Carthage and RoP. No thanks.
India and Scandinavia sign MA vs. Egypt.
Babs and Carthage sign MA vs. Egypt
Muscat: Treb->FP

Turn 2 (590 AD):

Move troops to retake Houston.
America will now offer Chivalry or Theo for peace.

IT:

India warns us about troops in their territory. We automove.
Carthage + India = peace treaty.
India attacks Boston and loses a cav.
Scandinavia and Carthage sign MA vs. the Dutch.
America suicides a longbow vs. our Pike outside Boston.
Babs and Rome sign MA vs. Carthage.
Ulundi: MDI->Longbow
Bapedi: MDI->Longbow
Mpondo: Pike->Longbow
Amatiku: Treb->Treb

Turn 3 (600 AD):

Bombard and kill one Pike in Houston. There's a second one there, though.
and WTH, our MDIs didn't move with the Treb stack to 1N of Houston last turn. I can't believe America didn't capture them!

IT:

Boston falls to India.
India and Scandinavia sign MA vs. Persia.
Two Arab MDIs get whacked by zerks in former American territory.
America declares war on Arabia.
American longbow kills one of our horses near x.
Zimbabwe: MDI->Longbow
Hlobane: MDI->Longbow
Aden: Settlers
Swazi: MDI->Longbow
Shiraz: Settler->Settler

Turn 4 (610 AD):

Kill an American longbow with a vHorse, promotes.
Atlanta:
Kill musket with army
Kill musket with other army
the city is ours! Just in time, too, the Dutch had 6 knights and an eLongbow within attack range of the city!
MDI kills pike in Houston, we retake the city.

Sign peace with Lincoln. He gives us Theology, Chivalry, Gunpowder, and 7 gold in exchange for 91gpt.

Since I've had the game for nearly two weeks at this point, I'm going to pass it off to the next player. We can honorably declare war on Arabia next turn - we have one turn left on our peace treaty with them.

elear_end_610.JPG
 
Sorry guys did not find the time for my turnset. Right now I will not be able to play until Sunday. So skip me.
 
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