Pigumon
Chieftain
I think Floyd came July or August, 1999.
For three years, I have not had any threatening hurricane. Fortunately!
For three years, I have not had any threatening hurricane. Fortunately!
Succession Game Open: Need Three Players
- Thread starter dojoboy
- Start date
Txurce
Deity
I was able to download it as well this way. It allowed me to look more carefully at what you'd done, Pigumon, and again, I think we're in a very promising position. We have a lot of gold saved up, and eight cavalry already in a world where no one else has it.
Since we have a moment before Dojoboy plays his round, I thought I'd raise a couple of questions to kick around, since formulating strategy is one of the benefits of a succession game. First, a procedural question: are we playing 20 turns or 200 years? I know how we got to where we are, and am open to either approach... just wanted us to be aware of the choice we have.
Now as to strategy: we are far behind in tech, and our monopoly on MT pretty much dictates that we fight our way close to tech parity. So the question is, do we attack Babylon or Zululand? Neither is particularly attractive, because our borders with the Zulus are very long and we don't have railroads for rapid defense deployment, and the Babylonians have a huge cultural edge that will make it hard to keep their cities.
Regardless of who our target is, it makes sense to strike quickly, before they get cavalry or even more riflemen. Note that Babylon's supply of saltpeter and horses are very close together - razing one or two of their cities and building one of our own would eliminate them as military threats at least until the advent of infantry. It could be worth staging a quick strike at Babylon in which we destroy their knights and cripple their ability to rearm, then wheel around for a major war against the Zulus, with the intent to reduce them to minor-power status. To do this, we have to really crank out cavalry...
Which means we're neglecting the building of universities and banks. We'd be engaged in a balancing act where we gain territory and tech, but would probably want to still be focusing on the TOE. We won't know how far behind we are in its pursuit until we enter the industrial age. (We also won't know until we establish communications with the other tow civs, but that can probably wait to be a spoil of victory as well.) This likely won't be an issue until it's my turn again, but it might be worth kicking around in the meantime.
What do you guys think about where we are, where we ought to be heading, and how to get there?
Since we have a moment before Dojoboy plays his round, I thought I'd raise a couple of questions to kick around, since formulating strategy is one of the benefits of a succession game. First, a procedural question: are we playing 20 turns or 200 years? I know how we got to where we are, and am open to either approach... just wanted us to be aware of the choice we have.
Now as to strategy: we are far behind in tech, and our monopoly on MT pretty much dictates that we fight our way close to tech parity. So the question is, do we attack Babylon or Zululand? Neither is particularly attractive, because our borders with the Zulus are very long and we don't have railroads for rapid defense deployment, and the Babylonians have a huge cultural edge that will make it hard to keep their cities.
Regardless of who our target is, it makes sense to strike quickly, before they get cavalry or even more riflemen. Note that Babylon's supply of saltpeter and horses are very close together - razing one or two of their cities and building one of our own would eliminate them as military threats at least until the advent of infantry. It could be worth staging a quick strike at Babylon in which we destroy their knights and cripple their ability to rearm, then wheel around for a major war against the Zulus, with the intent to reduce them to minor-power status. To do this, we have to really crank out cavalry...
Which means we're neglecting the building of universities and banks. We'd be engaged in a balancing act where we gain territory and tech, but would probably want to still be focusing on the TOE. We won't know how far behind we are in its pursuit until we enter the industrial age. (We also won't know until we establish communications with the other tow civs, but that can probably wait to be a spoil of victory as well.) This likely won't be an issue until it's my turn again, but it might be worth kicking around in the meantime.
What do you guys think about where we are, where we ought to be heading, and how to get there?
dojoboy
Tsalagi
Well, I've not yet played my turn, but I'm thinking an offensive v. Babylon would be best. We could remove ourselves from a very vulnerable position - major fronts w/ Babylon & Zululand. We definitley would need to capture Babylon and starve the population down, or raze it depending on what GWs lie within. I don't recall at the moment.
I'm thinking the Zulu are stacked to the gills w/ old impi warriors, giving the AI's reluctance to upgrade often. Also, since Babylon and Zululand already are at odds, we could maybe secure an alliance w/ Zululand v. Babylon. They might get 1-2 Babylonian cities, which would be easy picking later.
The ToE has got to be a target of ours, and if we're warring, a GL may be just the ticket.
Procedure: I say we stick w/ 20 turns for a few reasons.
(1) appears to be the standard of all succession games, not that we can't change.
(2) 20 turns keeps game-play manageable among different players re: note-taking, adjustments, and interest.
(3) if I blow my 20 turns, the game might still could be rescued.
???
I'm thinking the Zulu are stacked to the gills w/ old impi warriors, giving the AI's reluctance to upgrade often. Also, since Babylon and Zululand already are at odds, we could maybe secure an alliance w/ Zululand v. Babylon. They might get 1-2 Babylonian cities, which would be easy picking later.
The ToE has got to be a target of ours, and if we're warring, a GL may be just the ticket.
Procedure: I say we stick w/ 20 turns for a few reasons.
(1) appears to be the standard of all succession games, not that we can't change.
(2) 20 turns keeps game-play manageable among different players re: note-taking, adjustments, and interest.
(3) if I blow my 20 turns, the game might still could be rescued.
???
Txurce
Deity
Then twenty turns it is. Your leaning toward war with Babylon makes sense, especially in tandem with the Zulus. You may be able to get a (cheaper) mutual protection pact with the Zulus, since they probably already have nationalism, and then declare war. And Babylon has two wonders, so starving it down makes more sense. We amy not be able to starve them all down, though.
Now guess what we forgot? To build a FP. I think you're right about saving a GL for the TOE just in case, so maybe you should select a potential site based on what you hope to conquer.
Now guess what we forgot? To build a FP. I think you're right about saving a GL for the TOE just in case, so maybe you should select a potential site based on what you hope to conquer.
dojoboy
Tsalagi
OMG - tunnel vision!
Okay, do we want it in the "Province de Babylon" or save it for a balanced continent? I'm thinking somewhere in Babylon's lands, so we can have two production centers sooner and to confront the Zulus with.
???
Pigumon
Chieftain
Either way.
Attack Babylon to secure our backside, which means destroy them? I do not want to have them survived in the same continent. It remains a risk of flipping back of conquered cities, since Babylons are far advanced in culture. I do not see any railroad yet, that means ,I think, nobody has it researched. Thus, we are three tech behind, and we can buy them all.
Attack Zulu to get their eastern cities to secure northside, then make peace to catch up in techs (we should buy physics. We can get both Magnetism and TOG, hopefully, for peace treaty). We can enter Industrail Age which bring Nationalism to defend more easily. After that, again we can attack either civs, this time we will conquer them.
I think both war need allying with the other. dojoboy's plan is more straightforward, but what about techs? Of course we can buy. With latter plan, we can catch up in techs (hopefully). But make ally with Zulu after attacking them may be difficult. In worst case, both civs make alliance against us, which should be avoided.
Again, either way we can go.
Save GL for TOE makes sence. But when we get FP built, we cranck up our tech research and production. We can finish our initial war quickly and with some purchase, we can catch up in techs. We can start building palace somewhere to stock shield for TOE, once we enter the Industrial Age.
Ah, maybe I am confused. What do you think?
And what the other folks reading this thread think?
Attack Babylon to secure our backside, which means destroy them? I do not want to have them survived in the same continent. It remains a risk of flipping back of conquered cities, since Babylons are far advanced in culture. I do not see any railroad yet, that means ,I think, nobody has it researched. Thus, we are three tech behind, and we can buy them all.
Attack Zulu to get their eastern cities to secure northside, then make peace to catch up in techs (we should buy physics. We can get both Magnetism and TOG, hopefully, for peace treaty). We can enter Industrail Age which bring Nationalism to defend more easily. After that, again we can attack either civs, this time we will conquer them.
I think both war need allying with the other. dojoboy's plan is more straightforward, but what about techs? Of course we can buy. With latter plan, we can catch up in techs (hopefully). But make ally with Zulu after attacking them may be difficult. In worst case, both civs make alliance against us, which should be avoided.
Again, either way we can go.
Save GL for TOE makes sence. But when we get FP built, we cranck up our tech research and production. We can finish our initial war quickly and with some purchase, we can catch up in techs. We can start building palace somewhere to stock shield for TOE, once we enter the Industrial Age.
Ah, maybe I am confused. What do you think?
And what the other folks reading this thread think?
Txurce
Deity
I second putting the FP in your immediate target, as my unscientific sense is that building the FP sooner than later is more important than maximal placement.
Pigumon makes a good argument for using a GL on finishing the FP, rather than saving it for the TOE. We can definitely do a prebuild that will get us a long way there. It's a close call, and should probably be decided by when - if ever- we get a GL, and how close we are at that point to finishing the FP.
We are at least four techs behind, because both our neighbors have riflemen, hence nationalism. My sense is that we'll pick up a tech or two after winning a war, and will buy the rest, so which order this occurs in doesn't matter.
We all agree that we need an ally for our first war, if only because we may not survive our neighbors allying against us. I suggest signing a cheaper MPP right away, just to play it safe. However, if we do make an alliance, are we willing to break it by going for a quick peace? Maybe, since the other two will keep on beating each other up, and given that we're on the biggest continent, we probably won't need an ally again. (We also won't be able to trade gpt for anything.)
Let's assume that we are open to a quick war. Following Pigumon's instinct, we could line up our cavalry outside each of the Zulus' eastern cities, which probably have less upgraded units, and take them in a turn or two. Then we just need to hold against the onslaught - and there will be an onslaught - for a few more turns, and they'll agree to peace. We could then make sure we're on track for the TOE, reinforce our cavalry, and go after either of our war-weary neighbors pretty soon after.
The advantage of attacking Babylon first is that, with a strike aimed at their resources and then the wonder-filled capital, we are talking about permanently crippling them by taking just two or three nearby cities. We'd need more cavalry than against the Zulus in the east, but not much more. If we pursue this tack, we would probably need to raze one or two cities (line up a settler) and have a large enough force to garrison the capital until we shrink it down to size. I believe we could permanently hold the capital with such a garrison, but Babylon's cultural edge makes me nervous. As with the Zulus, I would again go for a quick peace, screwing our ally the Zulus, let them fight for awhile... and then, in this case, come back to take out Babylon for good. That culture is too unsettling.
It's your turn, Dojoboy, and there's no strong consensus, so I believe that you should have the final say. But keep in mind that both our neighbors are building riflemen, who don't go down so easily against cavalry. Our window isn't that big.
Pigumon makes a good argument for using a GL on finishing the FP, rather than saving it for the TOE. We can definitely do a prebuild that will get us a long way there. It's a close call, and should probably be decided by when - if ever- we get a GL, and how close we are at that point to finishing the FP.
We are at least four techs behind, because both our neighbors have riflemen, hence nationalism. My sense is that we'll pick up a tech or two after winning a war, and will buy the rest, so which order this occurs in doesn't matter.
We all agree that we need an ally for our first war, if only because we may not survive our neighbors allying against us. I suggest signing a cheaper MPP right away, just to play it safe. However, if we do make an alliance, are we willing to break it by going for a quick peace? Maybe, since the other two will keep on beating each other up, and given that we're on the biggest continent, we probably won't need an ally again. (We also won't be able to trade gpt for anything.)
Let's assume that we are open to a quick war. Following Pigumon's instinct, we could line up our cavalry outside each of the Zulus' eastern cities, which probably have less upgraded units, and take them in a turn or two. Then we just need to hold against the onslaught - and there will be an onslaught - for a few more turns, and they'll agree to peace. We could then make sure we're on track for the TOE, reinforce our cavalry, and go after either of our war-weary neighbors pretty soon after.
The advantage of attacking Babylon first is that, with a strike aimed at their resources and then the wonder-filled capital, we are talking about permanently crippling them by taking just two or three nearby cities. We'd need more cavalry than against the Zulus in the east, but not much more. If we pursue this tack, we would probably need to raze one or two cities (line up a settler) and have a large enough force to garrison the capital until we shrink it down to size. I believe we could permanently hold the capital with such a garrison, but Babylon's cultural edge makes me nervous. As with the Zulus, I would again go for a quick peace, screwing our ally the Zulus, let them fight for awhile... and then, in this case, come back to take out Babylon for good. That culture is too unsettling.
It's your turn, Dojoboy, and there's no strong consensus, so I believe that you should have the final say. But keep in mind that both our neighbors are building riflemen, who don't go down so easily against cavalry. Our window isn't that big.
dojoboy
Tsalagi
1130 AD - GA ended.
1140 AD - Stationed offensives w/ Cavalry & Immortals; investigated potential Alliances & MPPs. No one would ally, but would sign MPPs.
1160 AD - Signed MPP & RoP w/ Babylon (no conditions). Politics demanded Babylon as an ally rather than Zululand. Simply put, Babylon would agree, Zululand would not w/out MT. Wouldn't be prudent! Trade luxury to Babylon for Printing Press.
*DOW on Zululand; captured New Zimbabwe & Gordium; moved cannons to border cities.
1170 AD - Babylon DoW on Zululand {thought - once these guys get communism, it could be all over w/ the AI's tendency to pop-rush themselves to death}.
*captured Zarqum & Zunguin
*Zululand signs trade embargo w/ India against us
1180 AD - Zulu stack moves on Hamadan; make adjustments to frontlines; Babylonian troops entering Zululand; Zulu refuse our diplomatic efforts; maybe the capture of 2-3 more eastern cities may bring them to the table.
*Zulu capture Hamadan & raze Bactra
1190 AD - Recapture Hamadan & captured New Bapedi but lost Zunquin
1200 AD - War continues; however, Perisan WW begins.
The Zulu only willing to surrender Physics for peace, nothing more. Only 7 turns into a 20 turn MMP agreement w/ Babylon. Should we take Physics and rearm or continue w/ war? Each turn could yield a better deal. Odds are we'll be right back in the war due to the MPP, but maybe not since Babylonian troops are away from their territory.
1210 AD - Saved at start of turn.
Physics is the only tech available from the Zulu that will get us closer to the next age. Obviously, Shaka has more, but we can't negotiate for techs beyond our current reach. The only other techs we can try to get in a peace deal are democracy, navigation, etc. We could sign peace for physics, then offer up MT to them for the other techs, then offer MT to Babylon for other advanced techs. Reasoning, the other civs are closer to MT as each turn passes - eventually. Currently, we've gained 4 cities from Zululand.
???
1140 AD - Stationed offensives w/ Cavalry & Immortals; investigated potential Alliances & MPPs. No one would ally, but would sign MPPs.
1160 AD - Signed MPP & RoP w/ Babylon (no conditions). Politics demanded Babylon as an ally rather than Zululand. Simply put, Babylon would agree, Zululand would not w/out MT. Wouldn't be prudent!
Trade luxury to Babylon for Printing Press.*DOW on Zululand; captured New Zimbabwe & Gordium; moved cannons to border cities.
1170 AD - Babylon DoW on Zululand {thought - once these guys get communism, it could be all over w/ the AI's tendency to pop-rush themselves to death}.
*captured Zarqum & Zunguin
*Zululand signs trade embargo w/ India against us
1180 AD - Zulu stack moves on Hamadan; make adjustments to frontlines; Babylonian troops entering Zululand; Zulu refuse our diplomatic efforts; maybe the capture of 2-3 more eastern cities may bring them to the table.
*Zulu capture Hamadan & raze Bactra
1190 AD - Recapture Hamadan & captured New Bapedi but lost Zunquin
1200 AD - War continues; however, Perisan WW begins.
The Zulu only willing to surrender Physics for peace, nothing more. Only 7 turns into a 20 turn MMP agreement w/ Babylon. Should we take Physics and rearm or continue w/ war? Each turn could yield a better deal. Odds are we'll be right back in the war due to the MPP, but maybe not since Babylonian troops are away from their territory.1210 AD - Saved at start of turn.
Physics is the only tech available from the Zulu that will get us closer to the next age. Obviously, Shaka has more, but we can't negotiate for techs beyond our current reach. The only other techs we can try to get in a peace deal are democracy, navigation, etc. We could sign peace for physics, then offer up MT to them for the other techs, then offer MT to Babylon for other advanced techs. Reasoning, the other civs are closer to MT as each turn passes - eventually. Currently, we've gained 4 cities from Zululand.
???
Pigumon
Chieftain
Get Physics from Babylonian, then we can negotiate Magnetism and TOG for peace.
What the current luxury rate? Ususally, we can tolerate up to 30%.
I think we had better pick up Zulu's eastern cities. That makes a lot of cities that do not need defenders. But how strong Zulu force?
What the current luxury rate? Ususally, we can tolerate up to 30%.
I think we had better pick up Zulu's eastern cities. That makes a lot of cities that do not need defenders. But how strong Zulu force?
Txurce
Deity
First off, good general planning, including making use of those cannon. I knew the Zulus wouldn't be easy. Our options are either settling in for a long war, or abandoning Babylon. I say abandon Babylon at the right moment. If you think you can squeeze out more than one tech, bear with the ww luxury costs, and buy physics from Babylon first. Then you can get both magnetism and ToG from the Zulus, even if some gold is required.
Yes, you will get dragged back into the war soon enough by the MPP, and the Babs will be pissed regardless. I would hope that by then the Zulus don't have enough firepower to attack you in a meaningful way, and you can ignore them while focusing on ToE and, eventually, turning on Babylon. With luck, the inaction will scale down some of that ww. And then we can end the MPP as soon as it expires.
Yes, you will get dragged back into the war soon enough by the MPP, and the Babs will be pissed regardless. I would hope that by then the Zulus don't have enough firepower to attack you in a meaningful way, and you can ignore them while focusing on ToE and, eventually, turning on Babylon. With luck, the inaction will scale down some of that ww. And then we can end the MPP as soon as it expires.
dojoboy
Tsalagi
Doh! I never even considered this as an option.
Currently, the setting is 9-0-1. I'll bump up the luxury rate if the war continues. What do you guys think about an 8-1-1 ratio. I find when I'm at least working towards a tech, it gets cheaper and cheaper (for purchasing) as each turn goes by.
There are two eastern Zulu cities remaining. I'll try to get them before signing a peace deal. I think the Babs will keep Shaka distracted, but its going to take a couple turns for the cavalry to arrive.
I'm seeing a few knights, and as many horsemen, among the Zulu forces. It looks as if the Babs actually have the larger force, which is good.
I've got a family video night on tap first, then I'll knock my turn out after the kiddies go down.
I'm going to try and upload a coupl pics from the last save.
Txurce
Deity
Taking the eastern cities sounds like a good end goal for this war. The 8-1-1 strategy is dependent on just how much faster it gets. In this case, we're talking about one of the three first-level industrial techs. (I tend to skip nationalism, but that may not be wise now.) Given that we're charging for ToE, what are the odds that you can buy steam power, safely wait for the tech you're researching at 10%, then buy electricity and scientific method in time? On the other hand, if we discover that no one has medicine yet when we enter the industrial age, then it could be worth gunning for that with a lot more than 10%. I think we need to be in the next age before deciding the strategy for building the wonder that will ice the game.
dojoboy
Tsalagi
Pigumon
Chieftain
Wow, good job, dojoboy.
I did not imagine such a big success coming after 20 turns. Now I believe that 20 turn interval is decent.
I am not sure 10% science is worth or not. But, when we enter the Industrial Age, research Medicine (if no one has it) and exchange with Steam Power or something is a good idea.
Txurce>
Persia has scientific trait that brings Nationalism automatically.
I did not imagine such a big success coming after 20 turns. Now I believe that 20 turn interval is decent.
I am not sure 10% science is worth or not. But, when we enter the Industrial Age, research Medicine (if no one has it) and exchange with Steam Power or something is a good idea.
Txurce>
Persia has scientific trait that brings Nationalism automatically.
Txurce
Deity
Good point about nationalism, Pigumon. And watch out at Antioch, Dojoboy!
dojoboy
Tsalagi
Okay, don't freak out. But, I can be a bit of a risk taker, sometimes. 
This picks up in my eighth turn (1210 AD).
1210 AD - Purchased Physics from Babylon at 475 gold; signed peace w/ Zululand for Magnatism & ToG, throwing in 375 gold to seal the deal; traded MT to India, w/ map & 370 gold for Steam Power, set up MPP also; traded MT to Babylon, gpt deal, for medicine (My feeling is they were going to get MT sooner or later and it wasn't proving to be a decisive edge); began researching Electricity; set sliders to 8-1-1.
[We have 3 coal resources = trade bait]
1255 AD - Established communications (Chinese galley rowed by) w/ China (traded dye for gold & communications w/ Japanese).
1265 AD - China landed and DoW on Zululand.
1270 AD - Purchased Electricity from India for gpt & 570 gold; began palace prebuild in Susa (45 turns); set sliders to 6-3-1.
1275 AD - Traded coal to Babylon for Monarchy & 80 gold (probably a mistake, but wanted gold for rushing cavalry or purchasing tech) China captured Isipezi (Zulu); made alliances w/ Zulu v. China for Economics & Navigation; Persia captures Isipezi.
1280 AD - Traded dyes to Japan for 13 gpt; set sliders to 5-4-1 (Scientific Method 18 turns away).
1290 AD - MPP w/ Babylon activated v. Zulu = war w/ Zulu; MPP w/ India activated = India DoW on Zululand; captured Zunguin & Swazi.
Summary: Immediate concern is Sardis, its surrounded by 13 Zulu units and defended by 6 Persian units (mix); Babylon is under a monarchy & Zululand is in anarchy ; there are three Persian cavalry outside of New Ulundi (eastern most point - peninsular region); still no FP or GL; tech parity reached where it matters; the MPP w/ Babylon should be up when Txurce starts his turn. I recommend canceling it and signing an alliance, if necessary. This way we can break the alliance, if needed.
Pic - 1290 AD
Emailing saved game to Txurce. Pigumon, how did you link your saved game? I've got pics figured out, but not saved games.
If you want to try and find it at the upload link , scroll for macsuccession.SAV or macsuccession, 1290 AD.SAV. I did it twice but couldn't get it to work when setting up a link.
This picks up in my eighth turn (1210 AD).1210 AD - Purchased Physics from Babylon at 475 gold; signed peace w/ Zululand for Magnatism & ToG, throwing in 375 gold to seal the deal; traded MT to India, w/ map & 370 gold for Steam Power, set up MPP also; traded MT to Babylon, gpt deal, for medicine (My feeling is they were going to get MT sooner or later and it wasn't proving to be a decisive edge); began researching Electricity; set sliders to 8-1-1.
[We have 3 coal resources = trade bait]
1255 AD - Established communications (Chinese galley rowed by) w/ China (traded dye for gold & communications w/ Japanese).
1265 AD - China landed and DoW on Zululand.
1270 AD - Purchased Electricity from India for gpt & 570 gold; began palace prebuild in Susa (45 turns); set sliders to 6-3-1.
1275 AD - Traded coal to Babylon for Monarchy & 80 gold (probably a mistake, but wanted gold for rushing cavalry or purchasing tech) China captured Isipezi (Zulu); made alliances w/ Zulu v. China for Economics & Navigation; Persia captures Isipezi.
1280 AD - Traded dyes to Japan for 13 gpt; set sliders to 5-4-1 (Scientific Method 18 turns away).
1290 AD - MPP w/ Babylon activated v. Zulu = war w/ Zulu; MPP w/ India activated = India DoW on Zululand; captured Zunguin & Swazi.
Summary: Immediate concern is Sardis, its surrounded by 13 Zulu units and defended by 6 Persian units (mix); Babylon is under a monarchy & Zululand is in anarchy
; there are three Persian cavalry outside of New Ulundi (eastern most point - peninsular region); still no FP or GL; tech parity reached where it matters; the MPP w/ Babylon should be up when Txurce starts his turn. I recommend canceling it and signing an alliance, if necessary. This way we can break the alliance, if needed.Pic - 1290 AD
Emailing saved game to Txurce. Pigumon, how did you link your saved game? I've got pics figured out, but not saved games.
If you want to try and find it at the upload link , scroll for macsuccession.SAV or macsuccession, 1290 AD.SAV. I did it twice but couldn't get it to work when setting up a link.
Txurce
Deity
Dojoboy, I'll open the game in the morning, but it sounds like you won the game for us. My first non-military task will be to build rr in the ToE prebuild city and make sure we get it first; my second to build rr in the future FP city just to speed the game along. I would wager that we could win if we go peaceful from here on out... but where's the fun in that, given this is a succession game and you have us in the driver's seat? I will cancel my MPP with Babylon, and quit fighting the Zulus as soon as we take what resources they have (since they no longer have tech to give us). Since I wouldn't fight again by choice until I have some tanks, my turn should be mostly peaceful, serving Pigumon the ToE on a platter.
You're a lot more active than I would normally be... which is part of what makes this fun. For example, I wouldn't have bothered signing an MPP with India, because they're not much use to us on their island. And I would have let China fight the Zulus for a while before booting them off our continent, since I'd rather build the ToE, an FP, and maybe Hoover's rather than Adam Smith's (economics). None of this has any negative effect, though - it's just a different way of playing. And your very aggressive trading moved us from the bottom of the tech heap to parity. Once again, great job.
You're a lot more active than I would normally be... which is part of what makes this fun. For example, I wouldn't have bothered signing an MPP with India, because they're not much use to us on their island. And I would have let China fight the Zulus for a while before booting them off our continent, since I'd rather build the ToE, an FP, and maybe Hoover's rather than Adam Smith's (economics). None of this has any negative effect, though - it's just a different way of playing. And your very aggressive trading moved us from the bottom of the tech heap to parity. Once again, great job.
dojoboy
Tsalagi
My thought re: the MPP w/ India was that we would likely be back at war w/ the Zulu, and if so, India would DoW Zululand = no trade relations between the two. I did get nervous, worrying about India DoW on Babylon. This would've been a mess.
Re: Alliance w/ Zululand. It was probably a lot for just one city. But, I wanted to secure the eastern region, plus get some techs in trade. This is where my game-play is weak. You're far more practical than I am. My problem is, is that I don't notice it while I play. You make great sense. Why do we need those two techs when our goal is through another approach. I don't think we're going to be building banks anytime soon.
Maybe to shore up the economy during peace, but who knows.I'm looking forward to seeing what you do w/ Susa, as far as how you tweak the city for wonder-production.
Txurce
Deity
Actually, banking gives you banks; economics gives you Smith's. I'll continue the palace prebuild for ToE in Susa and start the FP. My plan had been to build it where I think Bactra used to be (near iron, on the east-west road), so now I'll rush a courthouse in Sidon, and build it there.
As far as potential military targets before peace, border cities Umtata and Mpondo have coal, iron and a luxury. We don't need any of them, but it puts us in a stronger potential trading position, and really cripples the Zulus.
Now let's see what we can do about saving Sardis...
As far as potential military targets before peace, border cities Umtata and Mpondo have coal, iron and a luxury. We don't need any of them, but it puts us in a stronger potential trading position, and really cripples the Zulus.
Now let's see what we can do about saving Sardis...
dojoboy
Tsalagi
Uh, ... I was .... just seeing if you guys were paying attention.
Hey, is pop low because of the emperor level? Or, because we've not had time to improve our cities? Jusy wondering.
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