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Suggest City Name Maps changes in Google Docs

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by Leoreth, Oct 17, 2016.

  1. Finbros

    Finbros Chieftain

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    Good, I registered to ask for method to propose name changing, and it is already answered.

    So, another question.
    In Russian language map city names in Balkans representate not Russian translations for original names, as in rest of Europe, but original names themselves.
    E.g.: Beograd (Serbian, correct Russian form should be Belgrad), Romanian Bucuresti and Constanta (Bukharest and Konstanca) and Albanian names with diacritics (Durres, Tirana and Vljora in Russian).
    I think, that it was made in original RFC for representation Southern Slavs, Romanians and Albanians (or Eastern Bloc at all, maybe). Should it be preserved or replaced with transliteration?
     
  2. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Good question. I think I'd prefer if the native local names are kept there instead of their Russian equivalents. These languages won't be represented at all otherwise.
     
  3. Makudomi

    Makudomi 初春型四番艦

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    Yay! Instead of painstakingly renaming every city I settle/conquer as Japan in each individual playthrough, I can influence the mod content directly.

    For Japanese, do you mind if I just unload a list of Romaji for foreign cities based on their modern equivalents? I'll gladly fill the whole map, though figuring out which tile is which will be a little troublesome. It pains me to use pure Wapuro, but I guess that in the absence of macrons it's inevitable.

    Also, it's not "Riberudaje". It's "Riberudaaji" (リベルダージ). And do we want to keep using names like "Shou Toukyou", "Ritoru Oosaka", "Oumu no Dochi", et cetera? If you ask me, that's not what a hypothetical Japanese settlement in either continent would be called, but I'll leave them if you'd prefer.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2016
  4. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    I think those names fall under the easter egg provision I mentioned in the opening post. If you have a better name for those tiles go ahead and suggest them, otherwise having the current ones is preferable to nothing.
     
  5. Makudomi

    Makudomi 初春型四番艦

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    Yeah, I figured as much. "Oumu no Dochi" in particular has a very large range, which I'd object to -- in the event of a hypothetical Japanese conquest of British-held Australia, doesn't that mean the first city would gain that name and all subsequent others in the zone would retain their former, English ones?

    I'm not a big fan of that; when I play as Japan and settle/annex Australia, I end up having to rename cities by hand even if I do keep the first one that becomes Oumu no Dochi. Brisbane→Burisuben, Darwin→Daawin, et cetera. Perhaps the zone for that particular Easter Egg can be reduced to a smaller area in NSW, given that it refers to parrots?
     
  6. hnrysml

    hnrysml Warlord

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    Maybe Rhye made these names to represent the Japanese colonising Australia first, rather than annexing cities (in which case I agree the names should change to reflect the Japanese language).

    I couldn't work out exactly what Oumu no Dochi meant, but if it's something like Land of the Parrot, or such, this would be a good hypothetical name for if Japanese colonists had been the first to settle northern and eastern Australia

    (edit) This discussion made me decide that my avatar should be a parrot- a Major Mitchell's Cockatoo!
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2016
  7. Makudomi

    Makudomi 初春型四番艦

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    I don't mind honouring the old RFC-era name here purely for tradition's sake, but I should probably mention that "Oumu no Dochi" isn't even an accurate translation of what I believe they were going for ("Land of Parrots", an English nickname for Australia). 「オウムの土地」 isn't proper Japanese. :p You just don't use 土地 that way; that name unfortunately reeks of direct translation from English.

    Personally, I'd suggest the following:
    1) Change "Oumu no Dochi" to Goushuu 豪州, which is the actual Japanese name for Australia (I should mention that this name is for the entire continent, but given that the previous name also refers to the entire continent I assume that's not a problem).
    2) Reduce the range of the name to a small area so that it doesn't override other names for Australian cities.

    Edit: Sorry, I absentmindedly typed 同地 (douchi) from muscle memory. Fixed.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2016
  8. Makudomi

    Makudomi 初春型四番艦

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    Okay, passed 100 comments at some point...taking a break for now.

    Tried to concentrate the bulk of my efforts on areas historically relevant to Japanese history, so:
    -Translated a handful of SEA city names that were still in their original language
    -Translated most major Australian and New Zealandian cities
    -Translated most relevant South Asian cities, only used modern cities obviously
    -Added Japanese names for the cities in Brazil with the highest population of Nikkei-Burajirujin
    -Made suggestions for a couple of locations in the Pacific of special importance to the IJN (i.e. naval bases); the names would look similar to the American names for European/Turkish cities if you used them
    -Minor areas of IJN interest/operation such as Alaska, Madagascar, Hawaii and Panama

    I also added TLs for some random capital cities and most of the American East Coast because why not. I was gonna try to have a "what if" name for New Zealand too (assuming a Japanese discovery) but the oldschool kanji for the area 新西蘭 literally reads as "Nyuu Jiirando", lol.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2016
  9. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    You're right, Oumu no Dochi is a special case. It's more similar to stuff in the Latin map like simply "America" for the entire American coastline. I don't think names for regions (real or imaginary) should never be used for cities, and this practice should be removed on the grounds of the 4x4 rule alone.

    By the way, I have been thinking of another mechanism to use in the absense of a name in the city map: a "native language" for a tile is determined (based on cores, or if the tile is in nobody's core, the civ with the highest settler value). So for example, for Australia, the native language is English based on England's settler values there. Then if a civ without a name for a tile settles there, the native language name is used and translated into the civ's language IF it has its own translation for that name.

    This way, we only have to define things like Brisbane -> Burisuben in the Japanese rename dictionary, without having to do it again in the founding map. Instead, Japanese would found on the Brisbane tile without having a defined name for it, then we would see that the native language name (English) for the tile is Brisbane and see that Japanese has a name for Brisbane, so we use that instead.

    I'll see if that works, if so, I'll work in those kind of suggestion that way.
     
  10. Makudomi

    Makudomi 初春型四番艦

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    Ah, I'm quite glad you agree. ( `ー´)ノ Although in the case of very small islands, I think an exception can be made when necessary. Like Seychelles, which is cursed with having a place named Victoria for a capital AND largest city.

    That sounds quite convenient. If you do pursue that method, let me know: I'd gladly translate every city for your rename dictionary's utility. If this were in a list format (as in a list of "native language" names for cities) rather than a map, I could work much more efficiently.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2016
  11. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Yeah, the rename dictionary is basically just a list of "original name" -> "translated name". I want to bring them up to Google Docs soon as well.
     
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  12. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Update: rename dicts are available now too, I've updated the OP including some explanation. I hope everything is sufficiently clear.
     
  13. DarkLunaPhantom

    DarkLunaPhantom Prince Supporter

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    Do you want to keep the current American names for European and Turkish cities? I think it's silly and immersion-breaking for them to be named after military bases and USA should just use English names there.
     
  14. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Agreed, no military bases.
     
  15. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Deity

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    Where are the rename dictionaries located on the sheets?
     
  16. soul-breathing

    soul-breathing King

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    It's not so convienient to use Google doc in China, so I modify China CNM with new China map we discussed in May(http://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/a-suggestion-better-chinese-map.567047/page-2). If necessary, I can upload a CNM Excel of China.

    This CNM shows all cities' names in China and some Chinese neighbouring countries, all in Chinese. As for the in-game era based naming system, we can refer to Qiu's reply in that thread for the moment, also can be expanded afterwards.

    Spoiler :


    The saves is compatible with hrtechs.
     

    Attached Files:

  17. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Sorry, forgot to add the link, the OP is updated now.

    That's unfortunate, then someone else needs to integrate your suggestions into the Google sheets.
     
  18. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    I tried to retroactively edit the map formatting, without success. I think you have to live with the lack of peaks/rivers.
     
  19. merijn_v1

    merijn_v1 Black Belt

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    You can copy the layout from my docs (use the template tab) and paste them in your template tab. I created a small script (copyOverlay) which copies the layout from the active tab to all other tabs. (See the script editor. If you can't open the script editor from my docs, let me know and I will copy it to the forums so you can use it yourself)
     
  20. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Deity

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    Rome and Byzantium could use Greek as a secondary language, and vice versa for Greece (i.e. Latin as secondary for Greek), given the close relationship between Roman and Greek culture in antiquity.
     

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