Suggestions and Requests

[Leoreth]

Unfortunately I don't think so. There are two rules for this: cathedrals work on a separate rule because they are a religious building (of which instances exist for every different religion). The rule used for national wonders has been modified in the DLL to scale with civ size so national wonders become attainable for small civs.

 

[emidurand]

So I am done, and started a game to see how it works, and ran into a roadblock: The number of buildings you need for buildings which need a certain number of buildings in order to be built scales with the number of cities you have, which is fine for national wonders and cathedrals, but is pretty bad in this situation where I really want exactly one Import for every Export building. As it stands you may need to build several export buildings to unlock a single import building in larger empires, and it only gets worse the more cities you acquire. Obviously this runs counter to the whole point of this idea, that is empires being able to import food from their colonies to their centers.

Well... suggestions? Apart from removing the mechanic that dynamically increases the number of needed buildings per cathedral like building based on your size?

Well, I' ve a suggestion, but could be complicated. We could create a building that simulates the sale of food. Each building forecasts a decline of a number of units of food reserves of the city but allows the appearance (not the building) of a new unit, a food merchant, who can build in another city a building not constructible in other ways, providing for an increase of the same level of food in the city chosen. It should however also be possible to destroy the building, in case you want to rebuild the structure for export and make reappear the unit, thus changing city.
It's complicated but I think it can make the most of the idea.

 

[sercer88]

Unfortunately I don't think so. There are two rules for this: cathedrals work on a separate rule because they are a religious building (of which instances exist for every different religion). The rule used for national wonders has been modified in the DLL to scale with civ size so national wonders become attainable for small civs.

But that's just cost to build, right? We can worry about cost later, but for now we need to find a way to make a 1-for-1 rule or modify an existing rule to allow us to implement this new system.

Well, I' ve a suggestion, but could be complicated. We could create a building that simulates the sale of food. Each building forecasts a decline of a number of units of food reserves of the city but allows the appearance (not the building) of a new unit, a food merchant, who can build in another city a building not constructible in other ways, providing for an increase of the same level of food in the city chosen. It should however also be possible to destroy the building, in case you want to rebuild the structure for export and make reappear the unit, thus changing city.
It's complicated but I think it can make the most of the idea.

#1) there is the Mayan unique unit which gives +5 food to the nearest city every time it wins a battle.
That might not be something good enough for us, but it is similar in the sense that it can add a one-time food increase.

On the other hand
#2) In v. 1.12 (and maybe 1.13, I just haven't used these units yet in my gameplay of 1.13) slaves could be brought to any city and be sacrificed (or maybe it was a different term) to give a one-time boost of 20 hammers to the city they were in. This action would expend the slave.
This might be the path to go down if we want to expand on this particular idea from emidurand.

There may not be a way, and I certainly wouldn't know how to create the rule. I'm not much help so I'll have to sit the rest of this out.

 

[Leoreth]

No, not just build cost. As you know, in BtS the number of prereq buildings for NWs was constant. The number was usually lower than the number of cities smaller civs usually have in DoC, which was counterproductive since NWs are designed to mostly benefit smaller civs in the first place. Instead of lowering the threshold, which would make obtaining them trivial, I changed the requirement so that X% of your cities would need say a Theatre to build the Opera House NW.

 

[emidurand]

Another solution could be to create buildings of national corporations that, depending on how many resources you have, create wealth, or food production.

For example, a multinational food >> 1 unit of grain >> 3 units of food in the city. And so on for each type of resource.

 

[ezzlar]

Do you guys consider the somewhat stupid AI when you suggest improvements?

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

There are two rules for this: cathedrals work on a separate rule because they are a religious building (of which instances exist for every different religion). The rule used for national wonders has been modified in the DLL to scale with civ size so national wonders become attainable for small civs.

I am pretty sure the required number of temples per cathedral scales with empire size as well in this mod, as I am sure I can remember only needing to build 2 or 3 temples per religion for Korea's UHV.

 

[need my speed]

Well, there are two tags; <PrereqBuildingClasses/> and <BuildingClassNeededs/>. I'm 100% sure you can use the latter to make it so that if you build Building1 in City1, you can then build Building2 in City1. For instance, in my mod, to build a Bank in City1, I'd need to have a Market in City1 (and Supermarket<Grocer, Laboratory<Observatory<University<Library, and possibly more).

What you can't do is build Building1 in City1 and then build Building2 in City2 - that does scale indeed. I'm unsure if you're talking about that though.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Well, there are two tags; <PrereqBuildingClasses/> and <BuildingClassNeededs/>. I'm 100% sure you can use the latter to make it so that if you build Building1 in City1, you can then build Building2 in City1. For instance, in my mod, to build a Bank in City1, I'd need to have a Market in City1 (and Supermarket<Grocer, Laboratory<Observatory<University<Library, and possibly more).

What you can't do is build Building1 in City1 and then build Building2 in City2 - that does scale indeed. I'm unsure if you're talking about that though.

I know that, and the second tag is useless for me. Why would I build an export and import building both in the same city? Defeats the entire point. I might as well just give +1 food to all trade related buildings and be done with it.

 

[Chep]

that might actually be easier since any building that could potentially "kill" your city by starving its population will probably cause lots of problems and exploit-options.

also: how does it work if I "gift"/liberate the food donating city?

 

[need my speed]

I know that, and the second tag is useless for me. Why would I build an export and import building both in the same city? Defeats the entire point. I might as well just give +1 food to all trade related buildings and be done with it.

You'd do that because of the +1/2/3/4 commerce net benefit (in your idea).

But fair enough.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

that might actually be easier since any building that could potentially "kill" your city by starving its population will probably cause lots of problems and exploit-options.

also: how does it work if I "gift"/liberate the food donating city?

All of history is history of exploitation, so I don't see a problem with that.

You will need to build another two export buildings for your next import one I think, but if you don't plan on expanding any more that might be a valid strategy. Come to think of it...

1. Be Western European civ.
2. Found colonies around the world.
3. Spam export buildings in colonies.
4. Spam import buildings in core cities.
5. Liberate colonies.
6. Get extra food in core and let independents foot the bill.

Yeah seems pretty realistic to me.

You'd do that because of the +1/2/3/4 commerce net benefit (in your idea).

I could live with it as a side effect, but I definitely don't want it as the whole point.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

WAIT A MINUTE! On a whim I started a game as 2 city Korea in 1700 AD, and would you look at that, they would need two exports for every import as well, just like 1700 AD England! Could it be that it doesn't scale with number of cities after all, but is only increased from 1 to 2 because of Huge world size? Because I could work with that. If it's this constant, 2 for one, I just need to double the amount of food per import building, or half the amount of negative food per export building.

Let me just playtest a game as Russia real quick and see if the number truly does remain constant even if I spam new cities...

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Good news: I started the 1700AD scenario as several big civilizations, Russia, Turkey and Spain, and for all of them it was the same 2 to 1 ratio of exports to imports.

Bad news: I started a game as England and played for a while to test it out and, well:

Spoiler :

Whenever a import or export building is finished, an overflow error message appears and then shows up again every single turn. Doesn't seem to have any actual effects on the game though, however it is pretty annoying. Apart from that everything seems to be working as intended. Any ideas what might cause it? Could it be because I overlooked something when adding the new buildings? I edited BuildingClassInfos, I edited BuildingInfos and I edited GameText_DoC_Buildings, but since there was no issue until I actually finished a building I believe it might be a graphics issue, seeing as I just copied everything in that regard from the Customs House.

 

[Leoreth]

Whoa, this could be huge. Does it happen every time the building is built? Can you share its XML?

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Whoa, this could be huge. Does it happen every time the building is built? Can you share its XML?

Yes, and whenever I choose to build an import building the game lags a bit, but I can't remember if this overflow error appeared then as well.

I attached all three files I changed just to make sure.

 

[Leoreth]

Thanks, this could help me finally fix that bug. I have never been able to reproduce it before.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Thanks, this could help me finally fix that bug. I have never been able to reproduce it before.

Would that be that ominous overflow bug I have been hearing so much about? I thought fixing that bug was one of the things you did before releqsing 1.13?

 

[Leoreth]

Nah I just waited until everyone forgot about it

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Nah I just waited until everyone forgot about it

So that's what the nerf to Central Planning was about, you needed me to to distract everyone!