Suggestions and Requests

[Leoreth]

Speaking of performance, when reading through the Plague code I realised how inefficient it is, which would also explain why the game slows down even more when plague is spreading. I could optimise that relatively easily without changing the behaviour noticeably. Right now I don't want to touch it, because maintaining these changes before merging the new tech tree is probably too much handle, but I'd like to get back to it later on.

 

[Temujin8k]

I am! I was thinking our UP could be something like gaining some amount of production from trade routes that pass through sea tiles, and then they could toss on some more fish/clams/crabs all around the islands.

IMO they're both relevant in today's world, definitely at least as relevant as Brazil, Colombia, or Argentina. Aside from just being convenient to take up some space on the map, they've also had significant economic thrust and contributed heavily to military campaigns ever since WWII, meaning nearly throughout their whole history.

Nice! I'd be interested to meet you in person. Filipino RFC players like us seem like rare gems.

Well, you've got a great point there. We also have to emphasize the importance of the Philippine archipelago as a major trade hub with the Arabs, Indians and Chinese since the 9th century (hello, Makabayan/Araling Panlipunan lessons ). Might sound too OP except if it manages to expand outward but I think that for its UP, if ever, aside from the one you said, all cities in core area should get +2 trade routes.

Problem is that its spawn date will be too late if we treat it similarly to Mexico, Argentina, Colombia, Brazil and Canada. 1898 will be the earliest we can set historically. Unless if we can treat it somewhat like how EUIV does colonial nations, then we could have it in 1565, though it must spawn as a vassal of Spain.

 

[ozqar]

Can vassals have vassals? Because then the Philippines in 1565 should spawn as a vassal of Mexico / New Spain

In all seriousness, playing as a vassal should be part of the game, and the starting condition for all colonial civs, as well as for all the old world civs that were colonized.

 

[inthesomeday]

Philippines Civ:
Spawns as a Muslim Civ in Mindanao, not sure which city, sometime in the 10th century CE. chance to eventually become "Sultanate of Sulu" or "Sultanate of Maguindanao".

Leaders could include an early Sultan, Lapu Lapu (contentious, but hey, if Ragnar's in), Jose Rizal/Andres Bonifacio, one of the modern presidents, probably Magsaysay, Commander Dante as Communist leader.

UP: 50% of overseas commerce is transferred to production.
UU: Moro pirate, or Katipunero
UB: ???

The Spanish could still get Manila for their Trading Company, as the city was mostly built on Spanish trade and the Muslims were mostly in Mindanao, or a conqueror event if it's been settled already. There could be some sort of historical goal to encourage converting to Catholicism in the colonial period, though the earliest Filipino Civ should definitely be Muslim. This could also help with the spread of Islam to Indonesia, which I never see in my games.

UHV: 1. Open Borders and a resource export with two Asian civs and two middle eastern civs in 1400
2. Sink 25 European ships by 1700
3. Make Manila the largest city in the world, with a palace and a Catholic cathedral, by 1950

 

[Tigranes]

Leoreth, I have a special request that will help players to save many minutes and nerves if they play hours of DoC every week.

Imagine how often we, human players, meet new leaders in this game. And then we are presented with the same tired, useless pseudochoice, which is extremely redundant: declare a war the moment we met the guy or there will be peace in our times. Please, please give us a real choice and save our precious time: (a) Welcome new leader! (opens trade dialog) (b) Please accept greetings and gifts (offers gold gift just enough to change initial attitude by +3 which will allow to open borders and opens trade dialog) (c) Hi and bye! (closes new leader window without any interactions).

Perhaps this is not a high priority thing for a developer. But players need effective UI to avoid doing redundant things and use their time for fun, not mechanical actions. Look, there are zero cases in real game when you absolutely need to declare a war on newly discovered leader without even checking him out in trade screen. Why, then, we need to see that stupid "choice" "Declare War" every time we meet a leader? Don't you want to make our life easier? Please replace this dialog with something intelligent to work with. Opening borders with the new leaders is often the very first thing human player has to do, which involves the same procedure -- give the new kid initial minimal bribe, improve relations for the very short term just to open borders. It used to be standard 10 golds, sometimes 20, in 1700 AD game it takes 90 gold to gain +3 relations, enough to go from Cautious to PLeased and open borders. Let's streamline the drill please

 

[Leoreth]

I completely agree. However, the diplo screen is notoriously hard to mod, so I don't know if that is possible at all. I'll see what I can do.

 

[Cosmos1985]

Not sure where this should go (=in which thread), but with the combination of mercantilism being changed and the AI civs demanding fair deals when it comes to trading resources, is it no longer worth the effort to have vassals? Maybe those two things is too much a nerf in combination - no longer having to rely on vassal civs for foreign trade routes, and not being able to get their resources easily anymore. Could vassals maybe be changed to follow the old AI logic for trading resources? Or somehow in another way be more eager to trade with their master civ.

About AI and trade in general, I think perhaps the change has been too harsh compared to the old system. It makes sense for them to not be naive and now realize a 1-to-1 trade usually will benefit you more than them, but... a lot of times, a trade would benefit both civs, but not equally, and that should not always be a no go, especially for a distant and "minor" civ. Say if I'm France, it makes sense for Spain or England to not want to help me and deny a trade, but Indonesia or Inca would to a higher degree prioritize self-interest, and gain advantage for themselves, and not care that it would be of even greater benefit to me. If I have something they need, and they have something I need, they should want to make that deal to a higher degree than it is now even if the gain is bigger for me. I hope my line of thinking makes sense :/

 

[Leoreth]

The idea is to get the idea to generally accept equal gain trades, but it's rather hard to actually evaluate the gain correctly, so that's more likely the issue is. It's been a while since I touched the code for that but I think I also made vassals more willing to trade. Apparently both need more balancing though.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Maybe Mercantilism should double trade route yield from vassals?

 

[Tigranes]

Can Park please provide 1 instead of 1 per Town? I mean, in Europe Forest gets replaced with Cottage on Grassland. They later grow to Towns and yes, they produce . But Urban planners designate green areas and parks in order to keep things green and nice. This will simply cancel the pollution in suburbs, but authorities still need to provide happiness for city center. They better do it with spending on culture and making culture slider useful, instead of building a Park in city for happiness, when we have so many buildings that provide happiness...

 

[Leoreth]

I see the logic behind this, but for every improvement unhappiness/unhealth there is a building to counteract it. We have Parks for Town unhappiness and Public Transportation for Village/Town unhealth, and in that light public transportation makes more sense in counteracting the unhealth from towns, and parks as a tool against unhappiness from overpopulation.

 

[inthesomeday]

Italy spawn at some time in the 6th century as either Lombard kingdoms or Papal States?

 

[Leoreth]

The Italian spawn is in 1167, representing the Lombard League.

 

[Tigranes]

Leo, how strong do you feel about Distillery? Another happiness building but this time on expense of badly needed health! And again, keep in mind that happiness can be controlled with culture slider (and make it more useful), while for health we cannot do the same!. Plus, if League of Temperance is any indication, for every happy alcohol consumer there is an angry lady somewhere. In 1895, Russia established a state monopoly on alcohol, which became a major source of revenue for the Russian government. There is a Systembolaget in Sweden even in 21 century! With this in mind I suggest Distillery to become a source of income for the state (5% gold for each Sugar (Rum), Wine (wine), Wheat (Vodka) and Rice (Sake) on the expense of 1 and 1. (Banana wine is not a very popular booze ).

In general, we have too many happiness buildings and they are not fun. Ideally you want every building to have variable effect -- not all the Banks are the same, not all the Universities are the same, not every Theater is the same, and they have different influence depending on civilization and civics in real life. Parks are an example of buildings with variable effect, and I would like them if they provide anything else except happiness. Becase again civs have to be forced to use culture slider.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Becase again civs have to be forced to use culture slider.

I'm sorry for being out of the loop, I haven't yet gotten around to checking out the HR tech branch, but I thought there were talks of making culture more useful in other ways?

 

[Leoreth]

I don't know if I agree with your premise that civs should be forced to use the culture slider. Also right now there is no mechanism to give percentage increases per individual resource, and that would probably be abusable with power stacking.

Point taken about overabundance of happiness buildings.

I'm sorry for being out of the loop, I haven't yet gotten around to checking out the HR tech branch, but I thought there were talks of making culture more useful in other ways?

Not yet, but there will.

 

[Tigranes]

I don't know if I agree with your premise that civs should be forced to use the culture slider. Also right now there is no mechanism to give percentage increases per individual resource, and that would probably be abusable with power stacking.

Well, perhaps not "forced" but encouraged just a little more. After all it's a hard coded game mechanics, we have buildings like Theater and Amphitheater designed to work with it, and finally we witness this reoccurring reality in history, when the state tries to control minds of citizens with expensive entertainment instead of real reform. Think Roman panem et circenses or Pentagon’s strengthening grip on Hollywood . Finally, with Distillery and Rice, Wheat, Sugar, Wine I meant same thing Oil and Aluminium do for Industrial Park or Iron and Coal do for Ironworks...

I don't know if we should provide all the feedback about new HR inspired changes (other than techs) here or in the dedicated thread? But I just have to mention somewhere about new Cruiser unit. It comes way, way too early, compared to other ships. Cruiser somehow is Industrial Era Warship, while destroyer is Global era. This resource has a pretty accurate tree of evolution for warships. Two key warship development stages are missing in our game: Dreadnought battleships and Gunboats. As it stands now there is a significant period of time in game when Cruiser suddenly becomes most powerful ship, which it never was. There were always some pre-dreadnought battleships that could defeat early cruisers. In addition, the very button for current cruiser makes it stand apart from other ships: most ships use blue shades for their icons' background , while cruiser has white. Also a Submarine comes way too early, while Destroyer -- way too late, so for a very long time there is no good method to detect a Submarine, except with another Submarine.

I propose simple and methodical way to keep relevant ships in their respective eras. Last Sail Ships belonged to Renaissance Era, as they should . Now make all Coal ships available in Industrial Era, while all the Oil ships in Global Era! First Coal Ship is Ironclad (which can serve as a Gunboat), while Cruiser is replaced with Armored Frigate (with lower stats) and last coal ship being pre-Dreadnought battleship (replacing the slot of the Torpedo Boat, which we don't really need in Global mod like DoC). Then we swap Transport with Submarine, making former an Industrial Era ship (Galleons serve as transports the entire Industrial Era in present, which is strange), while latter becomes a Global Era ship, as it should. So overall we will have only 4 Coal ships: Ironclad, pre-Dreadnought battleship (call it Turretship if you like), Armored Frigate and Transport.

Now Destroyer moves to Radio (which requires Refining --> Oil, so very fitting), and it will be be at the same tech level as Submarine (which was swapped with Transport and now in Infrastructure). Modern Battleship may stay in Synthetics. Finally current Cruiser moves to Macroeconomics (Cruisers were thought to be ocean going commercial raiders destined to cripple enemy's economy in the era of Global maritime commerce). So the first set of Global Era Techs provide us with Oil powered Warships: Submarine, Destroyer, Battleship and Cruiser, with Carriers coming as they are now, with the same (second) set of Global techs as Aviation.

Finally since we have early plane -- biplane, we should also have early armored unit: Early Tank. Starting with Panzers the moment Germany enters Global era feels too overpowered. Early Tank can be available with Psychology, while Tank come during the second Global Set, perhaps with Electronics or Power Projection.

 

[Leoreth]

Okay, that makes more sense for the Distillery, in general I like the concept of trading commerce bonus for unhappiness/unhealth, and it's definitely more interesting than just more happiness. I don't think Wheat or Rice would work though, they're too common.

For the ships, this seems to be mostly about terminology. Cruisers are your early industrial oil powered ship, the capital ship counterpart to Torpedo Boats. I can think the names over, but ship names are complicated in that regard, as they mostly refer to role as opposed to technology, and are usually not related to specific eras. In doubt, clarity trumps verisimilitude here.

Good point about the Early Tank, having Tanks at the same tier as Infantry seems wrong.

 

[merijn_v1]

In the migration event, starving old world cities are negated to be a source city. I think it makes sense a starving city should be more likely to be chosen as a source city. People do not want to live in a place where there isn't enough food and want to go to a place where there is. (I assume this check is included to prevent starving target city to be chosen, but is integrated badly)

America is in the list lCivBioOldWorld, but Argentina, Brazil and Canada are not. Is there a reason for this?

The Canadian UP code does include the Great General and Great Spy as well. But both are global Great People. So cities don't have a threshold for them.

 

[Tigranes]

On 600 AD start can we please have 2 small non-Indy Indian AI kingdoms, for example (Tamil) Hindu Chalukya dynasty in South-West and (Indian) Buddhist Pala dynasty in Ganges valley. There were many middle ages kingdoms in India, all of them represented by Indy civs on 600 AD start which makes any trade with India impossible, and this was never a case in real life. For example Indonesian game is very different for 600 AD start compared to 3000 BC start. At 3000 BC start pre-Islamic human Indonesia can be influenced by India greatly and all that interaction feels very historically immersive. But at 600 AD start the only way to interact with entire India subcontinent before the arrival of Mughals is to declare war! 2 non-indu AI civs would illustrate Indian diversity. I can understand that many civs will arise around 600-1000 AD, so one might want to "save" 2 Indian slots for some other civs on 600 AD start, but I think we still have enough civ slots.

Also, I am not sure how we have arrived to the starting dates of Indonesia and Khmers? If anything Indonesia has to spawn first (650 AD for Srivijaya), while Khmers emerge only in 800 AD. So Indonesia needs to spawn before Khmers, by all accounts!