Suggestions and Requests

[Leoreth]

Stable should provide experience for light cavalries too, especially the Mongolian Ger.

True.

I find lumbermill might get another tech related upgrade, either in money or in production. The way it is, it never changes productivity except from railways. Compared to windmills or watermills, this seems underpowered.

I'll think about it.

 

[Ecthy]

For a while I was thinking maybe lumbermills represent some pre-industrial form of production, and thus forest squares deserve to be replaced by cottages in all cases. Then I remembered playing SSI's Imperialism and the huge lumber-related output the player achieves during the late game.

I guess the real question is how to factor in hill-situated lumbermills between mines and windmills, production-wise. Maybe make sure they're always less productive than mines, at least after industrial age.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

If Lumbermills grant less production than Mines, I feel it should get some commerce to compensate. After all, it's not as if in the 21st century nobody is using wood anymore. The table my computer is on is made out of wood, literally all my furniture is, many music instruments are, I think all these consumer applications can be represented with commerce.

Maybe the final yields for the hill improvements, disregarding civic boosts, should look like this:

Mine: 4 Production, 1 Commerce, some unhealth
Lumbermill: 3 Production (technically 2 but the third hammer comes from the forest), 2 Commerce, some health from forest
Windmill: 1 Food, 2 Production, 3 Commerce

 

[Ecthy]

That would mean one additional commerce. Question is, how would the situation of the forest square wrt rivers factor in? Also, what about watermills?

 

[Fresol]

Leoreth, you may want to refine the siege restriction that does not allow siege weapons to attack beyond the city defence percentage. Problem lies with the turkish siege of Constantinople where the city defence (pre-gunpowder) is as high as 200%. Gunpowder based siege weapon should be able to penetrate the 200% and only get restricted by the 60% defence provided by culture, but that's not the case.

Also while sieging Constantinople, the Byzantines love to send out cataphracts and horse archers to pick off my siege stack one by one. I guess there's just no direct counter to it. The siege can still be won, it just takes like 4 turns to completely blow up the defence.

 

[Leoreth]

Leoreth, you may want to refine the siege restriction that does not allow siege weapons to attack beyond the city defence percentage. Problem lies with the turkish siege of Constantinople where the city defence (pre-gunpowder) is as high as 200%. Gunpowder based siege weapon should be able to penetrate the 200% and only get restricted by the 60% defence provided by culture, but that's not the case.

That's not intended, let me fix.

 

[Leoreth]

Okay, let's compare mines vs. hill lumbermills:

Mine with no river: +2 production, +1 unhealth
Lumbermill with no river: +2 production, +0.5 health

Mine with river: +2 production, +1 unhealth
Lumbermill with river: +3 production, +0.5 health

So these base values favour Lumbermills, even more so if there is a river. Railroad has no effect here. Paper makes Lumbermills even better. When Geology is available, Mines arguably gain in utility with production being more valuable than commerce. With rivers I'd probably still prefer lumbermills.

Looks like the best reason to build mines is that you can chop the forest. Which is great, the main reason to introduce early lumbermills was to make chopping a tougher decision.

Civics wise, State Property equalises the production/commerce imbalanced introduced by techs. Which is a gain for lumbermills imo. Slavery favours mines though, especially being available early in the game.

Overall considered it seems about right balance wise, especially considering health. Any change would unbalance things more than improve balance or add more interesting choices. So it's staying as is.

 

[Fresol]

I think the Persians need to be exempt from the religious disunity stability penalty. The Zoroastrianism spread region is just small compared to the size of the Persian empire, even Shush cannot keep the religion from disappearing. Alternatively there should be ways to enforce you state religion so that it does not just disappear regularly.

Well, I just checked, Shush IS in the Zoroastrianism core... This shouldn't happen! I blame Judaism which is also in the city.

 

[star15389]

The wonders requirement already makes using Pantheon extremely tempting for Persia, and the reality that Zoroastrianism spreads so little that adopting it will hurt your stability makes it even more of a no-brainer. So the only reason to ever adopt it as your state religion is if you're going for the URV, which is effectively impossible because of how quickly Zoroastrianism vanishes, even when it's your state religion

 

[mccp77]

I'd like to see the Byzantines spawn at war with whoever the Romans are at war with. As an unstable Rome, I was at war with Persia, then my cities flipped (I let them go for historicity's sake), and my troops then got relocated (forgot about those troops) bc they were inside the new Byzantine borders. I didn't appreciate that. It saved Babylon (the city) and screwed me.

 

[Malchar]

Maybe the reason why the Byzantines split away was because they opposed the Roman war and wanted peace.

 

[mccp77]

Maybe the reason why the Byzantines split away was because they opposed the Roman war and wanted peace.

Sounds like a bunch of whiny children ...... also unhistorical.

 

[Malchar]

Alternatively, maybe they wanted to have the exclusive priviledge of subjugating Babylon for themselves. The point is that once they declare independence, they should not be beholden to the foreign policy decisions of Rome. If you want to keep the Roman army in Byzantine territory, then you must declare war on them.

 

[mccp77]

Alternatively, maybe they wanted to have the exclusive priviledge of subjugating Babylon for themselves. The point is that once they declare independence, they should not be beholden to the foreign policy decisions of Rome. If you want to keep the Roman army in Byzantine territory, then you must declare war on them.

I agree with you in principle that they shouldn't be beholden to the foreign policy decisions of Rome AFTER independence, but on independence they should have the same foreign policy as Rome. Constantine didn't change his foreign policy when he moved the capital.

 

[Genghis Khaiser]

I have a question: Why aren't the Sphinx and Khajuraho pre-built in the 600 AD and 1700 AD scenarios?

 

[1SDANi]

I'd like to see slaves being useful in more improvements than just slave plantations. With the reasons their building ability was removed in mind, perhaps they could be spent for things like increasing the work speed of a single worker on the same tile for a number of turns, spent to reduce the time until an improvement is build, or spent to give a temporary yield bonus to an improved tile. Any of these would be find, I just want to see some out of city use besides plantations.

 

[Genghis Khaiser]

I'd like to see slaves being useful in more improvements than just slave plantations. With the reasons their building ability was removed in mind, perhaps they could be spent for things like increasing the work speed of a single worker on the same tile for a number of turns, spent to reduce the time until an improvement is build, or spent to give a temporary yield bonus to an improved tile. Any of these would be find, I just want to see some out of city use besides plantations.

I agree, especially Native Slaves. Plantations in America and Africa aside, they are useless.

 

[Ecthy]

Slaves are already useful for rushing city improvements. Just figured that out very recently. They have a great engineer-like rushing button

 

[1SDANi]

Slaves are already useful for rushing city improvements. Just figured that out very recently. They have a great engineer-like rushing button

Yes I know, but they previously could build improvements, and I'd like them to have a similar ability again

 

[Visard]

Players should not be able to grant independence to cities before a certain appropriate tech.
Also not before you flip new cities at the start.