Suggestions and Requests

[KeeperOT7Keys]

I think city ruins should have a some kind of improvement that gives them a bonus after the research of tourism, but since they are already condiered as an improvement in the game I believe this might be hard to implement. Then they can give some bonuses with the hotels, or with another culture related building. Currently they just got removed by workers and are completely useless with the exception of free research event.

 

[merijn_v1]

I think city ruins should have a some kind of improvement that gives them a bonus after the research of tourism, but since they are already condiered as an improvement in the game I believe this might be hard to implement. Then they can give some bonuses with the hotels, or with another culture related building. Currently they just got removed by workers and are completely useless with the exception of free research event.

The easiest solution is to give if just some raw commerce yield.

 

[Leoreth]

Random thought: The national/cultural makeup of a city could have some additional effects besides unhappiness, revolts and stablity based on your civics.
A multi-ethnic empire like e.g. Habsburg-Austria or the Ottomans could maybe even derive some sort of benefit from having many different cultures in a city, similar to how the Ottoman UP allows drafting units in cities with a non state religion. Perhaps extra commerce or trade could work, similar to what has been suggested often times regarding minor religions and Judaism. A totalitarian nation state meanwhile could gain some tangible benefit from cultural unity, like decreased maintenance.
Similar to religious civics it might make sense to have a civic category about how your civ deals with cultural/ethnic differences.

Oh wow, I had a whole system of interactions cooked up based around this idea. Basically it would be a lot more normal than it is now for culture of civs you are interacting with through trade to seep into your empire, as well as the culture of conquered cities and fallen civs. The more culture of another civ is in your empire, the more you can get from trading with them and tech they have would diffuse into your empire, but on the other hand it would create more unhappiness for going to war with them, and make it easier to use espionage. So there would be more of an explicit choice to close yourself off against certain civs while being open to others.

With the current mechanics though the only cool thing I could think of is to enable you to build the UU and UB of a culture that has a certain percentage in your city.

 

[ozqar]

That's all really cool! It'd be awesome if certain civics (ie, nationalism) could offer choices to homogeneize the population, representing things like imposing the national language, creating a national identity, and limiting immigration. I don't have the latest git version, so can't remember which are the latest civic options in the rooster, but something else should encourage cultural diversity via immigration (increasing the mix). Something else should allow for increased and decreased output (culture, commerce, etc) from different nationalities. So in a way, having a mechanism to increase and decrease the diversity, and a separate mechanism to get benefits or risks (stability) from it.

I think city ruins should have a some kind of improvement that gives them a bonus after the research of tourism, but since they are already condiered as an improvement in the game I believe this might be hard to implement. Then they can give some bonuses with the hotels, or with another culture related building. Currently they just got removed by workers and are completely useless with the exception of free research event.

And about that, any city that has a wonder built could become ruins when razed. Ideally farms and other improvements would not remove the ruins, but just cover them temporarily, so that in the late game they can be used for commerce.

 

[Tigranes]

Not every plantation should remove Forest. Silk comes to mind, and possibly Dye, which can be harvested from plants without large scale deforestation. Forest was mainly chopped for crop farms. And mines.

True, but then it needs to be a different improvement altogether. Any idea what to call it?

Now that we have Orchard improvement it can apply to Silk and possibly Dye and Banana.

 

[Caesar Augustus]

Now that we have Orchard improvement it can apply to Silk and possibly Dye and Banana.

I mean if we're aiming for realism there really shouldn't be any improvement other than farms, pastures, and MAYBE villages. There are really very few areas of the world where the major use of land is anything other than agriculture.

 

[Ogi123]

Random thought: The national/cultural makeup of a city could have some additional effects besides unhappiness, revolts and stablity based on your civics.
A multi-ethnic empire like e.g. Habsburg-Austria or the Ottomans could maybe even derive some sort of benefit from having many different cultures in a city, similar to how the Ottoman UP allows drafting units in cities with a non state religion. Perhaps extra commerce or trade could work, similar to what has been suggested often times regarding minor religions and Judaism. A totalitarian nation state meanwhile could gain some tangible benefit from cultural unity, like decreased maintenance.
Similar to religious civics it might make sense to have a civic category about how your civ deals with cultural/ethnic differences.

That's interesting idea, but after nationalism multicultural empires should suffer greatly. Only in digital era this could return as valid gameplay style.

That's all really cool! It'd be awesome if certain civics (ie, nationalism) could offer choices to homogeneize the population, representing things like imposing the national language, creating a national identity, and limiting immigration. I don't have the latest git version, so can't remember which are the latest civic options in the rooster, but something else should encourage cultural diversity via immigration (increasing the mix). Something else should allow for increased and decreased output (culture, commerce, etc) from different nationalities. So in a way, having a mechanism to increase and decrease the diversity, and a separate mechanism to get benefits or risks (stability) from it.

This is something that could work.

 

[DC123456789]

I mean if we're aiming for realism there really shouldn't be any improvement other than farms, pastures, and MAYBE villages. There are really very few areas of the world where the major use of land is anything other than agriculture.

I mean, orchards are really just a special type of farm.

 

[Tigranes]

Leoreth, could you please include free Great Prophet and Great General in tech tree with the next update? Without it tech tree feels like something was forgotten and many early game UHV strategies might strongly depend on that prophet, assuming you don't make him to Islam founders but rather chose some neutral Classical Era tech, please...

Edit: I did some research and IMO Law is the best tech for Prophet (the Law and the Prophets ) while Generalship is the great tech for GG. On default difficulty by the time of ROman spawn not a single civ had Law while many were 2-3 techs away from researching it. Persia and India could use him to build a shrine, Egypt, Rome or Greece could bulb Orthodoxy, because Ethics requires Law. By the time Ethiopia spawns someone will get that Prophet for sure, making Ethiopian goal less trivial. GG could spearhead some Classical campaign for Greece or for Rome.

 

[Ogi123]

About Labourers and highways, they are pointless busywork. It cost only 10 to upgrade worker to labourer, they cost is similar.
With highways it's only few turns to upgrade selected titles. At this point of game you have pile of unused labourers who can do it quickly.
So why not eliminate both of them? Labour unions get +50% worker speed and towns and workshops get at infrastructure.
Sometimes less is more in my opinion.

 

[Leon Michiel]

About Labourers and highways, they are pointless busywork. It cost only 10 to upgrade worker to labourer, they cost is similar.
With highways it's only few turns to upgrade selected titles. At this point of game you have pile of unused labourers who can do it quickly.
So why not eliminate both of them? Labour unions get +50% worker speed and towns and workshops get at infrastructure.
Sometimes less is more in my opinion.

Highways give workers something to do in late game. Also, they played a huge role on modernisation of industrialized society, so they definitely add something to the game.

As for the upgrade from workers to labourers, they kind of force the player to make a strategic choice on uprading, retaining or deleting. But I'm not sure its really significant.

 

[Tigranes]

Inca's 3rd goal, to put it simply, is not fun. After 2nd UHV one only has 17% of South America with historical Inca Empire. For the next 30 turns one has to rush like 20 Settlers to place them in jungles and found all those 20 cities right before UHV registers , while units go to strike and fake empire is about to collapse. Why not -- no foreign colonies in South America by year 1700? It would be fun to use all that gold to upgrade your Classical Era army and attack colonists, who have firearms and horses, overwhelming them with sheer numbers.

 

[Ogi123]

Highways give workers something to do in late game. Also, they played a huge role on modernisation of industrialized society, so they definitely add something to the game.

As for the upgrade from workers to labourers, they kind of force the player to make a strategic choice on uprading, retaining or deleting. But I'm not sure its really significant.

No, at later game stages this is single burst of activity if you are using cottages. Upgrading workers to labourers is no choice it's so cheap that you always do it.

 

[Tigranes]

Why do we have Uranium in Turkey? As of now there was zero Uranium produced in Turkey and proven reserves are placing Turkey on the bottom of this list. On the other hand we have no Uranium for #4 in that list (Namibia) and #5, South Africa (which actually started and abandoned nuclear project, and many say Israel got nuces using South African uranium). At least one resource can be placed in general South African location (remove it from Madagascar also).

My other observation is that Orthodoxy don't disappear from Western Europe fast enough. The moment Great Schism occur -- ALL cities west of Russia/Balkans/Egypt and north of Balkans should exchange everything (religion, churches, even missionaries) orthodox to catholic in one turn. In some respect this must be even more drastic effect than the one of Reformation which had pro and contra elements even in England. But you never hear about Orthodox-Catholic competition in Merovingian France.

 

[Tigranes]

Created my very first pull request with realistic Uranium distribution. This was more fun and less complicated than I had imagined Git ist gut!

I researched different sites but used this one and my main logic was to represent top 10 reserves with Australia staying with 2 current sources to reflect her huge reserves. Currently there are 12 sources, I am proposing 11. 5 of them left to be in the current positions: Australia(2), Russia, USA, Canada. I erased 7 sources, randomly placed by Rhye I think: Scandinavia, France, Congo, Madagascar, Algiers, Ukraine, Turkey. Added 6: Kazakhstan, Brazil, South Africa, Namibia, Niger, China(in Tibet).

This can change late games a bit, because with Ukrainian mine AI Russia would start nuking her neighbors too easily. Now they will be encouraged to develop that Siberian resource, maybe even settle there, for a change. Run away Ottomans won't be nuking anyone, I hope. South America will finally get it's Nuclear power source. America most likely will complete Manhattan project if unless Dutch don't get nerfed and get there first. Sometimes I am tempted to view late Dutch as South Africa, basically Finally Germany might develop nukes with that mine in their Historical Namibia. Or human German player can get sinister and get Uranium without risking his stability. Finally China can become a nuclear power like she is.

 

[Leoreth]

Created my very first pull request with realistic Uranium distribution. This was more fun and less complicated than I had imagined Git ist gut!

Nice!

Git may seem intimidating but I encourage everyone to try it. You initially need to wrap your head around its way of thinking but once you did things are really easy.

I researched different sites but used this one and my main logic was to represent top 10 reserves with Australia staying with 2 current sources to reflect her huge reserves. Currently there are 12 sources, I am proposing 11. 5 of them left to be in the current positions: Australia(2), Russia, USA, Canada. I erased 7 sources, randomly placed by Rhye I think: Scandinavia, France, Congo, Madagascar, Algiers, Ukraine, Turkey. Added 6: Kazakhstan, Brazil, South Africa, Namibia, Niger, China(in Tibet).

This can change late games a bit, because with Ukrainian mine AI Russia would start nuking her neighbors too easily. Now they will be encouraged to develop that Siberian resource, maybe even settle there, for a change. Run away Ottomans won't be nuking anyone, I hope. South America will finally get it's Nuclear power source. America most likely will complete Manhattan project if unless Dutch don't get nerfed and get there first. Sometimes I am tempted to view late Dutch as South Africa, basically Finally Germany might develop nukes with that mine in their Historical Namibia. Or human German player can get sinister and get Uranium without risking his stability. Finally China can become a nuclear power like she is.

Looks good. I agree that there does not seem to be a lot of rhyme and reason in Rhye's resource placement and we can safely revert it. Also, thanks for including the source map you used. However, I think besides resource output we should also consider which civs historically use a lot of nuclear power or have nuclear weapons. Your changes already go in the right direction here, but I am still concerned about France, England and India.

Therefore I think we should keep the uranium in France. Modern France gets most of its uranium from West Africa, so the Niger source makes sense, but for the AI that is not feasible currently. Not sure what the most important source for the modern UK is though. You could argue they can get their uranium from South Africa or Australia though. There also should be a source on the Indian subcontinent, preferably also accessible to Pakistan.

I will look into your currently proposed changes too in the game, and leave more detailed feedback in the pull request if necessary.

 

[catacau]

Not sure what the most important source for the modern UK is though

Not sure if it's correct, i got it using google...

 

[Leoreth]

Okay, I guess it makes sense then to have them either import it or extract it from Canada/Australia themselves.

I found this for India. Pakistan does not seem to have deposits worth representing.

 

[Tigranes]

I know your reasoning for India and Pakistan. I wanted to be methodical and for the scale of this map include just top 10. As you see India is included in that map with lighter shade as well as Uzbekistan, Mongolia, Jordan, and Ukraine. Our current map has 12 resources, my changes propose 11. I guess for the sake of gameplay we can give India "first runner up" prize of Uranium in Jharkhand. Which most likely to be used by British by the way anyway...

 

[calad]

Just asking does now buildings give any stability effect?