Suggestions and Requests

[Leoreth]

I have considered something similar. I think Farms should still allow faster growth simply because otherwise they would be pointless, but after they get +1 from Chemistry, Towns should also get more food later on. I don't like this effect on a civic because it is so strong that it would be basically mandatory to adopt.

 

[1SDANi]

I have considered something similar. I think Farms should still allow faster growth simply because otherwise they would be pointless, but after they get +1 from Chemistry, Towns should also get more food later on. I don't like this effect on a civic because it is so strong that it would be basically mandatory to adopt.

What if Towns got bonus yields based on the Culture Level of the city that works it? This would make Farms better for most cities and Towns better for only the best cities in the world.

 

[Leoreth]

That's fair, and would also balance specialist and towns better.

 

[Tigranes]

Can we add Novgorod and Venice to 1700 AD map?

 

[Leoreth]

No, neither of these cities are particularly relevant from 1700 onward.

 

[Tigranes]

Ok, ok...

But I kind of already miss the ability to build units with food, maybe Tributary can do it? Or maybe make universal rule that any unit training require city to slow down in growth at least partially? Because the main capital in wars and military building is human capital. You need people to wage wars not just hummers.

 

[Jarlaxe Baenre]

I have a suggestion that I'm not even sure is a good idea (maybe too complicated, maybe it would slow the game down), to do with trade—specifically, the connection aspect of it.

Basically, I find trade routes and resource connections to be boring in Civ 4. They're oversimplified and rarely come into play. The Harappan goal is the most interesting application of trade routes and city connections I've ever seen. On the other hand, Civ 4: Colonization went overboard, and is basically just a trade route simulator.

So, what if, instead of it being a boolean is/is not connected, distance played a factor? Roads would allow trade to move farther along them, just as they do with units. Resources would only supply nearby cities, and perhaps some buildings (Harbour, Market, etc.) would boost the range of resources connected to that city?

I feel like an example would illustrate both what I mean and how it would affect things.

Greece decides that it wants pigs, so it settles Olbia 1E of the hill iron / 2E of the hill pigs. Let's say that pigs have a range of 5 tiles.

They are connected to Olbia by road, but a road does not connect Olbia to Byzantion.

The pigs travel 2 tiles by road (1/2 movement), and 5 tiles by coast (1/3 movement) into Byzantion. They've got 2.3/5 movement left.

Byzantion has a market, which restores half of the resource's used movement, like how a promotion heals half of a unit's damage. The pigs now have 3.7 movement left.

The pigs travel along the coast to Athenai, with the islands doubling the cost of movement through them. They've got 2 movement left when they reach Athenai, and its market restores them to 3.5 movement left.

Greece also has Massalia, which is 14 coast tiles away. The pigs can't make it to Massalia, so it doesn't get pigs.​

I'm not sure if this is a good idea. It would add a layer of complexity, with civilizations needing to ensure that markets and roads link their cities if they want all of them to benefit from resources.

It would make trade and city connections more interesting, and perhaps encourage civilizations to be somewhat polycentric—train elephants in Carthage, and spearmen in Sur.

However, I suspect it would also hinder performance, since it requires pathfinding to be done.

Just thought I'd throw it out there and see if it stuck. Some elements are already present in some form, such as some resources not being tradable until a certain point.

 

[Leoreth]

Yes I considered something like this. When I said I put a lot of thought into trade I really did mean I put a lot of thought into trade.

 

[Zaddy]

One thing that I think would be quite useful is, when receiving a stability penalty from Outdated Civics, the stability manager tells you explicitly what is and is not "outdated", or at least put this information in the civilopedia. I often find myself getting this penalty and having to simply guess what the "problem" civic is.

 

[catacau]

After a certain point farms could have health bonus instead of food increase. This way empires with a lot of resources could build cottages in their core.

 

[Tigranes]

Ok, ok...

But I kind of already miss the ability to build units with food, maybe Tributary can do it? Or maybe make universal rule that any unit training require city to slow down in growth at least partially? Because the main capital in wars and military building is human capital. You need people to wage wars not just hummers.

Related to this I just came up with universal suggestion: any unit with X must require X to train it and current costs get updated to require -X less s. Obviously nukes and air units are excluded.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Related to this I just came up with universal suggestion: any unit with X must require X to train it and current costs get updated to require -X less s. Obviously nukes and air units are excluded.

I'm intrigued by this suggestion and the additional strategic depth it offers. Siege equipment or mechanized units for example should need way less food if any at all relative to production when compared to a regular infantry unit.

 

[Tigranes]

In the modern world corporations have amazing power, compared to organized religion in medieval time. They need to have a headquarters to reflect that. Spread can still be automatic but countries which discovered the prerequisite tech first should get a headquarters in eligible city.

 

[Leoreth]

I disagree with this characterisation of aircraft carriers. Even in the late game one turn is still one year, and it is easily conceivable to deploy any airborne unit to a different base anywhere on the planet in one year. Ferrying planes across the globe on carriers is kind of silly and not the point of aircraft carriers. What aircraft carriers do provide is a mobile base of operations for an air force. So if anything, the problem is that currently it is too easy to station planes in nearby cities instead of having to rely on carriers. Maybe I should only allow stationing air units in cities of defensive pact partners or vassals instead.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

In More Naval AI, a modmod of Fall From Heaven II, air units only have a limited rebase range equal to double their regular range. Worth stealing, no?

 

[Tigranes]

I disagree with this characterisation of aircraft carriers. Even in the late game one turn is still one year, and it is easily conceivable to deploy any airborne unit to a different base anywhere on the planet in one year. Ferrying planes across the globe on carriers is kind of silly and not the point of aircraft carriers. What aircraft carriers do provide is a mobile base of operations for an air force. So if anything, the problem is that currently it is too easy to station planes in nearby cities instead of having to rely on carriers. Maybe I should only allow stationing air units in cities of defensive pact partners or vassals instead.

yes that is a very worthy idea! As Japann I had a war with Brazil, so I sent my Carrier to Atlantic Ocean in order to wipe our Brazilian infrastructure by bombing them, only to realize that I can simply land planes in Argentina which has closed borders with Brazil and bomb from there! I felt a little gimmicky but still did it

 

[Tigranes]

In the modern world corporations have amazing power, compared to organized religion in medieval time. They need to have a headquarters to reflect that. Spread can still be automatic but countries which discovered the prerequisite tech first should get a headquarters in eligible city.

This can apply to any Corporation in the game except for Trading company, which sort of already has different headquarters for different countries. But for example Silk Road needs to have a headquarter in Chinese capital. I mean, seriously, don't you feel bad for China? All those cities in Eurasia benefit from the Chinese Silk and Chinese government gets no income from that? Apart from one little city in Northwest of China core that gets the company? Right now humans never settle Chinese capital in place they move 2E, but AI get stack with inferior capital. Xian can regain it's importance to human player if you extend the range of Silk road to include Xian and if China discover Compass (or maybe perhaps and earlier tech like Currency) -- then Chinese capital/eastern most Silk Road city will get a Headquarter "Silk road Origin" wonder! Message will say "Silk Road Originated from Xian(China)". If headquarter get 4 gold per Silk Road city -- at most this can be 40-50 gpt. Yes, Imperial China needs to profit somehow from their own Silk! If Persians beat China to Silk Road tech -- it is still ok, let them enjoy headquater showing that somehow their traders took effective control of revenues. The Silk Road represents an early phenomenon of political and cultural integration due to inter-regional trade. "In its heyday, it sustained an international culture that strung together groups as diverse as the Magyars, Armenians, and Chinese " (c) Wikipedia. In the way it the first very decentralized but global corporation and I am happy we have it in the game as such. But just like Silicon Valley, de facto the headquater of Global Computer industry, brings benefits to America -- Silk Road need to bring benefits to the originators not just middle men.

By the way -- in 600AD scenario road is broken at X 88 Y47, is that intentional?

 

[Tigranes]

I'm intrigued by this suggestion and the additional strategic depth it offers. Siege equipment or mechanized units for example should need way less food if any at all relative to production when compared to a regular infantry unit.

Well, but consider all that manpower needed to build them in a first place? Imagine all those workers who build siege towers and earthworks, engineers and sappers that had to be employed to carry out all the numerous types of sieges represented by our simple Catapults, and Trebuchets, and Bombards. Yes, sappers too. Most sieges were very labor intensive projects.

 

[Steb]

In the modern world corporations have amazing power, compared to organized religion in medieval time. They need to have a headquarters to reflect that. Spread can still be automatic but countries which discovered the prerequisite tech first should get a headquarters in eligible city.

I think "corporations" in DoC are more appropriately thought of as generic industries. There is no "world headquarters of the oil industry". You can argue that there are places that have disproportionate importance for a given industry (e.g. Silicon Valley for computers), but these places don't necessarily correspond to where the industries initially developed, and may change over time. I'm not sure that this feature would bring anything interesting.

 

[Tigranes]

I think "corporations" in DoC are more appropriately thought of as generic industries. There is no "world headquarters of the oil industry". You can argue that there are places that have disproportionate importance for a given industry (e.g. Silicon Valley for computers), but these places don't necessarily correspond to where the industries initially developed, and may change over time. I'm not sure that this feature would bring anything interesting.

But it will. And it is not a misnomer to think about "center" of any industry, if it controls disproportionally large market share. Standard's president, John D. Rockefeller, had long since retired from any management role. But, as he owned a quarter of the shares of the resultant companies, and those share values mostly doubled, he emerged from the dissolution as the richest man in the world.

Gamewise this will propel furious competition for founding corporations between AI and human player in late game, reflecting global rivalries even in absence of direct military conflicts. Corporation HQ incomes can help with tech related UHVs on higher difficulties. And finally -- why SHrines provide income but there are no HQs to do so? What good is corporation if it only brings benefit of the host city? Thats not how real life works: "Corporation: (noun) An ingenious device for obtaining profit without individual responsibility."