Suggestions and Requests

[Leoreth]

I know, I have some ideas on this, and posts where I describe them in some degree are scattered across this board. However I think other features are more important at the moment.

 

[1SDANi]

I know, I have some ideas on this, and posts where I describe them in some degree are scattered across this board. However I think other features are more important at the moment.

I believe a few of those posts were in response to my posts IIRC. I just love the idea of a Trade Economy and I won't stop reminding everyone every chance I get!

In more serious lines of thought, do you have any idea when you may be adding the previously discussed civic changes or something to a similar effect? I can't wait to see them be an official part of the mod.

 

[Leoreth]

Maybe later today. I prioritise genuine fixes over content changes like this but after yesterday there isn't a lot of that left.

 

[ales_]

Obviously more of 1.6 and beyond considerations than 1.5 ones

Just a reminder that both 1.5 and 1.6 were already released years ago.

 

[Tigranes]

Just a reminder that both 1.5 and 1.6 were already released years ago.

He obviously meant v 1.15 and 1.16 . It is unkind to nitpick on typos.

 

[Ogi123]

So we are talking about civics? In all honesty changing them isn't that difficult just some XML editing, well unless you want to get fancy.

Anyway my main problems are:

1) Conquest: this is civic witch ironically doesn't reward conquering, it's just as good for civ that don't cottage and want better units for defence. My proposition here is to reward aggressive players and made it pointless for peacemonger.

-> +100% when taking a city - this isn't as powerful as it seems conquering new big city is not that common occurrence in classical era.
-> -25% XP needed for unit level up or +100% XP gain for units -> you will be rewarded for combat making it easier to build experienced army.

2) Republic: currently only use of this is for Carthage due to they UP other civs almost immediately should switch to despotism or monarchy. Early there isn't enough / or specialist slots for this civic to be useful.

-> + per specialist - I really liked that effect in some previous versions, with some initial building investment it allowed me to run early specialist economy.
-> can hurry units with - no change here.

3) Colonialism: My main problem here is +XP for water units it's rarely useful drydocks are usually enough for purpose of navy building. Secondary, costs of colonial empire can balloon really quickly and + per colony isn't enough to offset it.

-> remove +4Xp for water units add: reduces colonial maintenance - should be enough for building large colonial empire.

4) Multilateralism: Bunch off effects that aren't that well put together, and defensive pacts with AI are rarely good idea. But honestly here I don't have good idea.

Okay then so how about:
- Vassalage: +1 production per Farm
- Central Planning: old school +1 food per Workshop, Watermill
- Ideology: +1 production per Workshop, Lumbermill
- Nationalism: +1 production per Town

This is good but then I will vote for removing vassalage fort and castle bonus, nationalism fort bonus. Just to make it less cluttered.

 

[Tigranes]

So we are talking about civics? In all honesty changing them isn't that difficult just some XML editing, well unless you want to get fancy.

I would guess editing XML is the least of the worries, the problem is to predict how every single civ will respond to this changes and how the world will ultimately evolve. Lot's of things to balance with civics!

 

[need my speed]

- Central Planning: old school +1 food per Workshop, Watermill
- Ideology: +1 production per Workshop, Lumbermill

I have no objections, but I never really understood the reasoning behind this, so I thought I'd ask - why? Do Workshops represent the proletariat? And Watermills, then? How do these even differ from Farms, actually (yes, they could be hydroelectric dams in the late-game)? Do Lumbermills represent paper, and thus, the spread of the ideological message?

 

[Leoreth]

Yes! These pamphlets may be written with the blood of the proletariat but they are also written on the corpses of our trees!

 

[Genghis Khaiser]

Something that I find inaccurate, especially in the late game, is that a city surrounded by farms grows faster than one that is surrounded by villages and towns.

In order to reflect on this urbanization that started with the Industrial Revolution, the Town improvement should have +1 or +2 food, triggered either by an Industrial Era technology or a late-game Civic.

 

[1SDANi]

Something that I find inaccurate, especially in the late game, is that a city surrounded by farms grows faster than one that is surrounded by villages and towns.

In order to reflect on this urbanization that started with the Industrial Revolution, the Town improvement should have +1 or +2 food, triggered either by an Industrial Era technology or a late-game Civic.

Agreed, a +2 Food improvement is just so good, it lets you have a larger core city, and thus more of both specialists and foreign cities. The best place for Farms ATM is within core territory, and the best place for Cottages is outside of core, which is the opposite of what should be happening.

 

[Tigranes]

The truth is that trade routes should supply core with food, not just farms. North Africa was feeding lazy Romans not nearby farms. Civ5 tried to implement it with rather clumsy Caravans and Cargo Ships. Civ4 has more elegant automatic routes, which may take a lot of calculations for PC but free's human player from looking into city lists. When two internal cities trade they can send to the core city one food per food resorce in non core city's radius.

 

[KeeperOT7Keys]

History Rewritten has Redistribution civic, gives half of the trade yield as growth to the city, it is a simple but a nice example.

I have no objections, but I never really understood the reasoning behind this, so I thought I'd ask - why? Do Workshops represent the proletariat? And Watermills, then? How do these even differ from Farms, actually (yes, they could be hydroelectric dams in the late-game)? Do Lumbermills represent paper, and thus, the spread of the ideological message?

I think it's because they are all sources of production, which in the game is associated with order/central planning. Actually I think we can buff mines too, but mine production is usually something related to the early stages of capitalism/industrialism instead of socialist states.

 

[Visard]

Highways could give one for towns instead of one .

 

[Leoreth]

I have considered something similar. I think Farms should still allow faster growth simply because otherwise they would be pointless, but after they get +1 from Chemistry, Towns should also get more food later on. I don't like this effect on a civic because it is so strong that it would be basically mandatory to adopt.

 

[1SDANi]

I have considered something similar. I think Farms should still allow faster growth simply because otherwise they would be pointless, but after they get +1 from Chemistry, Towns should also get more food later on. I don't like this effect on a civic because it is so strong that it would be basically mandatory to adopt.

What if Towns got bonus yields based on the Culture Level of the city that works it? This would make Farms better for most cities and Towns better for only the best cities in the world.

 

[Leoreth]

That's fair, and would also balance specialist and towns better.

 

[Tigranes]

Can we add Novgorod and Venice to 1700 AD map?

 

[Leoreth]

No, neither of these cities are particularly relevant from 1700 onward.

 

[Tigranes]

Ok, ok...

But I kind of already miss the ability to build units with food, maybe Tributary can do it? Or maybe make universal rule that any unit training require city to slow down in growth at least partially? Because the main capital in wars and military building is human capital. You need people to wage wars not just hummers.