Suggestions and Requests

[Steb]

My point is that they're abstract industries, not individual corporations. A given industry that spreads in Moscow doesn't necessarily have any relationship to an instance of the same industry that spreads in New York. (Especially if the former is communist and the latter is not.) So it would make no sense that one would get a benefit for the spread in the other.

But maybe a system of that kind would make the gameplay more interesting. I don't know.

 

[Leoreth]

In More Naval AI, a modmod of Fall From Heaven II, air units only have a limited rebase range equal to double their regular range. Worth stealing, no?

No, for the reasons I mentioned before.

 

[Tigranes]

When only Hungarian lands are left from "Austrian Empire" -- can we call it Hungary? In a way Austria was merged to Germany is contested province in our mod but Hungarian lands are Foreign core. Let's say if you playing 3rd Reich it is good to see your vassal called Hungary -- the only "vassal" that stood with Germany until bitter end.

 

[Zaddy]

I just want to say that Central Planning and Ideology are now much better than they were before. I still think Ideology is slightly weak compared to Constitution, but it's definitely an improvement over what it was previously, and anyways it's usually better to take small, incremental buffs as opposed to changing something drastically.

 

[Tigranes]

Great updates lately! But what we are going to do about Hippodrome? Make it to replace Amphitheatre with 1 happy face per 5% culture but no +25%? Because now it replaces Theatre with 1 happy face for 10%, and Artist. and Horse, and 25% culture (which is actually important for UHV)... If you think about it Hippodrome is more Amphitheatre than Theatre anyway...

 

[Genghis Khaiser]

Countries' dynamic names should be based on how states would be named in real life, rather than their political parties, ruling bodies, or ideologies. This happens especially with fascist or communist names. For example:
-British Workers' Commonwealth.
-Nationalist China.
-National Synarchist Union of Mexico.
-National Socialist Iran.

And so on. It's like calling the UK "The British Crown", or "Labourer/Conservative Britain", or "Parliamentary Britain".

 

[Leoreth]

Great updates lately! But what we are going to do about Hippodrome? Make it to replace Amphitheatre with 1 happy face per 5% culture but no +25%? Because now it replaces Theatre with 1 happy face for 10%, and Artist. and Horse, and 25% culture (which is actually important for UHV)... If you think about it Hippodrome is more Amphitheatre than Theatre anyway...

But considering it helps the UHV it makes sense to have it that way. In ancient Rome (and medieval Byzantium) Hippodromes and Amphitheatres obviously coexisted.

Countries' dynamic names should be based on how states would be named in real life, rather than their political parties, ruling bodies, or ideologies. This happens especially with fascist or communist names. For example:
-British Workers' Commonwealth.
-Nationalist China.
-National Synarchist Union of Mexico.
-National Socialist Iran.

And so on. It's like calling the UK "The British Crown", or "Labourer/Conservative Britain", or "Parliamentary Britain".

Most of these are holdovers, and are used because no historical examples exist. Suggestions for better names are welcome.

 

[Genghis Khaiser]

Most of these are holdovers, and are used because no historical examples exist. Suggestions for better names are welcome.

Using these instances, mine are:
-British Socialist Commonwealth.
-Chinese Nation/Nation of China.
-Synarchist Union of Mexico/Mexican Empire/Neo-Aztec Empire.
-Iranian Nation/Iranian Empire/Pan-Iranian Empire/Neo-Persian Empire.

 

[DC123456789]

Using these instances, mine are:
-British Socialist Commonwealth.
-Chinese Nation/Nation of China.
-Synarchist Union of Mexico/Mexican Empire/Neo-Aztec Empire.
-Iranian Nation/Iranian Empire/Pan-Iranian Empire/Neo-Persian Empire.

Is "British Socialist Commonwealth" really better than "British Worker's Commonwealth"? It seems to me that it's even more of naming it after its ideology.

 

[Leoreth]

I also like Worker's Commonwealth. If we come up with nonhistorical names they might just as well be less generic than the two dozen Socialist we have already.

 

[1SDANi]

Why did you have to bring back the Unit Production using Food penalty? You produce settlers and workers using food because said units create or improve cities, so by making cities stagnate while training them balances it out. It's a penalty. It's not a good thing. WHY DO YOU DO THIS TO ME!!!

1

 

[Zaddy]

Why did you have to bring back the Unit Production using Food penalty? You produce settlers and workers using food because said units create or improve cities, so by making cities stagnate while training them balances it out. It's a penalty. It's not a good thing. WHY DO YOU DO THIS TO ME!!!

It's conditionally a good thing, for civs that have a low happy cap and would otherwise grow into unhappiness. It has a use. Niche, but a use.

 

[1SDANi]

It's conditionally a good thing, for civs that have a low happy cap and would otherwise grow into unhappiness. It has a use. Niche, but a use.

But do the majority of civs that historically used the Civic plagued by a low happiness cap? Civics are meant to be most useful for those who historically implemented them, so as to encourage historical play. If an effect on the civic hurts it's historical users then it's a penalty, regardless of it's niche utility for ahistorcal civs.

EDIT: Also, did you just refuse to quote my 1?

 

[Zaddy]

But do the majority of civs that historically used the Civic plagued by a low happiness cap? Civics are meant to be most useful for those who historically implemented them, so as to encourage historical play. If an effect on the civic hurts it's historical users then it's a penalty, regardless of it's niche utility for ahistorcal civs.

EDIT: Also, did you just refuse to quote my 1?

I would say that most Europeans suffer from a low happy cap compared to their Asian counterparts and will find a good use for the food mechanic. Even then, for Asian civs it's really not that bad. Excessive use of Despotism can easily cause you to need to use the food as production ability. I'd say it's a mechanic that's overall somewhat awkward to play around but is generally a buff. I cut out your one because it oddly irritated me and I presumed it to be a typing error. My apologies if it was supposed to be of some significance.

 

[Tigranes]

Why did you have to bring back the Unit Production using Food penalty? You produce settlers and workers using food because said units create or improve cities, so by making cities stagnate while training them balances it out. It's a penalty. It's not a good thing. WHY DO YOU DO THIS TO ME!!!

1

Look, it is not so bad. I was playing Poland and they have zero Luxury resources in Eastern Europe. I literally was using avoid growth after first UHV because all my taxes would go to pacify population that was breeding like rabbits. At the same time all the wars Poland gets involved in require constant stream of units. That extra food during Golden Ages could go into unit production instead of being wasted. Same goes for low production Paris. You need to levy people for your military, I even proposed universal rule -- X food for ever X strength.

 

[Fresol]

It's interesting to adopt the Tributary civic without the need to have any vassals. I wonder where the tribute part comes in.

 

[Zaddy]

It's interesting to adopt the Tributary civic without the need to have any vassals. I wonder where the tribute part comes in.

It could be minor/unrepresented vassals. For example, France for the majority of the game's timeline was a decentralized collection of vassals led by the King of France, whose crown lands were remarkably smaller than the French core in DOC. Due to the scale of the mod, this can't really be represented, so instead we have to opt for abstraction.

 

[Tigranes]

It's interesting to adopt the Tributary civic without the need to have any vassals. I wonder where the tribute part comes in.

Maybe we can add -- can train vassal's UU?

Also remember that last missing GG in our tech tree -- the Prophet? I just realized that it would really help if it could be within Persian reach somewhere. They need to research 3 techs for UB, use culture slider for 7%, need a shrine for another UHV, pay enormous maintenance in early game, and they need natural spread of their religion. One Prophet can help with all of this.

A good tech for it is Priesthood. Right now if anyone beats Persia to it -- they will not found Zoroastrianism because they don't own a city in the historical domain. But at least can be rewarded with GP. But if all goes good -- Persia will get a boost from the start --like Arabia used to get when their shrine was up and running from the very beginning.

 

[1SDANi]

Look, it is not so bad. I was playing Poland and they have zero Luxury resources in Eastern Europe. I literally was using avoid growth after first UHV because all my taxes would go to pacify population that was breeding like rabbits. At the same time all the wars Poland gets involved in require constant stream of units. That extra food during Golden Ages could go into unit production instead of being wasted. Same goes for low production Paris. You need to levy people for your military, I even proposed universal rule -- X food for ever X strength.

I would say that most Europeans suffer from a low happy cap compared to their Asian counterparts and will find a good use for the food mechanic. Even then, for Asian civs it's really not that bad. Excessive use of Despotism can easily cause you to need to use the food as production ability. I'd say it's a mechanic that's overall somewhat awkward to play around but is generally a buff. I cut out your one because it oddly irritated me and I presumed it to be a typing error. My apologies if it was supposed to be of some significance.

Guess I should play more European Civs then. I've been playing France by building a 2 workers in all starting cities, then a settler in the capital, work boat in both western coastal cities, a catapult in the southern coastal city, harbors in the western coastal cities, and a catapult in capital and southern coastal city. This gives me enough workers to improve the entirety of my core in time for my acquisition of Italy, enough catapults to easily take Rome, and a fourth core city on the northwest peninsula.

With a constant stream of Crossbowmen I can just barely keep my cities constantly happy while my starting units march through and vassalize Holy Rome, then Poland, and finally Russia. By the time my cities hit the point where Monarchy alone can't support them, I should have got enough to support my cities with a single unit due to Notre Dame and a bunch of other factors I don't understand. This means I can upgrade all of my Crossbowmen into arquebusier and march into and conquer Spain and Portugal at the same time as the invasion of Russia.

After that all I need to do is take out Italy should they have flipped Naples, and then conquer the Ottomans and Iranians. Then I march back up and take the Dutch and finally the Prussians.

That's as far as I've gotten in my French games, I keep underestimating the natives.

So I've never found myself using the avoid growth command in my games as France, despite the fact my cities are constantly growing. If the effect is useful for other civs then I guess it should be in the game. I've just never played a civ that needed it. (I've played the Ottomans, France, and Carthage ever since getting good at the game)

The 1 was because I put in !!!, but I didn't want to do the cliche !!1, so I did

!!!

1

 

[Zaddy]

As promised, here's some thoughts on Totalitarianism:

In a vacuum, Totalitarianism is actually a pretty decent civic. It has a niche. Unfortunately, when looking at civics, its pretty important to look at what other civics it's "competing" with in it's column. In this case, in the late game Totalitarianism competes with Individualism and Egalitarianiam. Both of these civics are incredibly power and often the player builds their entire economy and civic set-up around these two civics. Either you build cottages everywhere with Individualism or try to emphasize specialists with Egalitarianism. Totalitarianism does not do this. It is not a "build-around" civic that influences that choices of your other civics. Totalitarianism does not provide the amazing economic benefits of Individualism or Egalitarianism. Instead, Totalitarianism wants you to build units and really beat up your cities.

Okay, thats pretty cool, its different from the other civics. Here's the fundamental problem: in 99% of circumstances, the player has no trouble, especially in the production-rich late game, building enough units. The real constraint in DOC isn't units, its economy: runaway inflation, city maintenance, etc all mean that the real thing civics need to do for you is either provide stability or give you economic boosts. Preferably both. While this is true, any civic that so uniformly focuses on unit production, rather than economy, is more or less doomed to be significantly worse than a civic that gives your economy a boost.

So what can we do? I can think of a few things.

One of:

- Make Totalitarianism give worthwhile economic benefits
- Make factors like inflation or city maintenance less punishing
- Nerf Individualism and Egalitarianism.

Of these given options, I'm taking the "Make Totalitarianism give worthwhile economic benefits" option, because it is a) less contentious, and b) is far easier to implement.

My time is a bit short, so I'll give a few options that I think would make the civic more useful and let you toss my ideas around in your head. I'll come back later today and give a more focused idea:

No unrest in newly conquered cities

Unhappy citizens still work tiles

No/halved maintenance cost from number of cities (taken from State Party)

Sacrificing population and drafting causes at most one unhappiness per action

1 hammer per unhappiness in a city (similar to Public Welfare, except going the other way. Say a city has 20 happiness and 5 unhappiness. The city would get 5 extra hammers)

You get the idea.