Suggestions and Requests

[Steb]

The recent discussions on natural wonders as a way to reward exploration gave me a half crazy idea: what if there was a new type of great person called Great Explorer?

I imagine Great Explorers to function similarly to Great Generals and Spies: the more you explore, the closer you are to getting one. Each newly discovered land tile could grant some points towards a threshold. The amount of points can be modulated: higher if using an explorer unit, lower if you are not the first to discover the tile, etc. Discovering a natural wonder or a faraway civilization could grant extra points. Discovering land through a map trade grants nothing. This way, original exploration is rewarded with more than just knowledge.

What would Great Explorers do? I’m not sure yet. They could be settled like any other great person, have an associated building, and maybe conduct a « great expedition » akin to Great Merchant trade missions, granting science or other things according to how remote you send them. Think of expeditions like Darwin’s or Amundsen’s. Great Explorers could also be used for exploring although that would be a little circular (then again, generals and spies do work in a somewhat circular fashion). I think they should also be able to start golden ages, as empires devoting resources to exploring the world is characteristic of prosperous periods. Another idea is that they could play a role in colonization, maybe founding cities on other continents without consuming a settler or upstarting such cities.

Eventually there will be a shortage of things to discover, and no more Great Explorers will be born. This is realistic.

What I like most about this is that we'd be able to grant figures like Columbus and Magellan and Cook the status they deserve. Usually they are lumped with the merchants (or artists for Polynesia) but it doesn’t really fit all that well.

(It goes without saying that I volunteer to research Great Explorer names if this idea is ever adopted)

 

[Leoreth]

Oh that is interesting! I don't have many concrete thoughts to add at the moment but I will definitely keep it in mind when thinking about this whole exploration and natural wonders complex.

 

[ozqar]

Eventually there will be a shortage of things to discover, and no more Great Explorers will be born. This is realistic.

Amazing idea! Just had to reply on this that... well, we're not done yet exploring even the bottom of the ocean, and "the space is the ultimate frontier".

 

[1SDANi]

What if Trading Companies could only be built by a Great Explorer

EDIT: Other ideas.

Settled Great Explorers grant +X Culture per Trade Route
Can perform a mission to gain +X Relations with civs you currently have contact with and regain contact with all previously contacted civs

 

[Steb]

Amazing idea! Just had to reply on this that... well, we're not done yet exploring even the bottom of the ocean, and "the space is the ultimate frontier".

Yeah, I know, but these things are different enough from exploring in the traditional sense that they wouldn’t be covered with this mechanic anyway.

 

[JHLee]

It is very hard to know how much additional gold I am taking from sacking cities.
Could a message be added that tells me that?
Possibly with the coins sound effect?
(the one that plays when you finish a bank or blockade enemy cities)

 

[KeeperOT7Keys]

I think a sportsman speicalist can be added into the game as well. maybe it can grant happiness, similar to the doctor specialist (iirc it was giving health or growth in HR).

 

[1SDANi]

I think a sportsman speicalist can be added into the game as well. maybe it can grant happiness, similar to the doctor specialist (iirc it was giving health or growth in HR).

So basically a per-city way of changing happiness at a moment's notice, as opposed to the empire-wide use of the culture slider? The main thing I'm concerned about is that allowing the city-specific tweaking of happiness would just end up making culture even less relevant than it already is.

On that topic, adding more % features to the sliders sound interesting.

Not sure what for which though. Random ideas I had include:

Culture: +X% GPP per turn
Commerce: Health per city, hastening cottage growth
Espionage: Reducing periphery population instability, increasing enemy war weariness

 

[JHLee]

I don't like the idea of adding new GP types, their branches can easily become narrow.
It's not like that you would be able to use them a lot anyway, especially if you are aiming for UHVs,
since you'll most likely be pumping out Great Artists/Merchants all the time.

 

[KeeperOT7Keys]

imho most uhvs related to great artists can be transferred to the great sportsman if we include it. and we might add uhvs for some civs like brazil as well. it's not going to be a complete separate mechanic and I think would be easy to integrate.

 

[Edmund Ironside]

I know that these UHVs are left over from the original Rhye's and Fall, but should at least 1 of the UHVs for each of the Egyptians and Babylonians be changed? As things currently stand both civs UHVs can be completed with only 1 or at most 2 cities. It doesn't encourage the kind expansionist play you would expect of 2 civs known for their empire building (especially the Babylonians).

 

[Leoreth]

Egypt historically really isn't an empire building civ.

 

[Edmund Ironside]

Well they did a bit during the New Kingdom particularly under Ramesses II. But okay the case for Egypt is weaker. But the Babylonians certainly are rapid empire builders, with the first empire under Hammurabi, and than the later Neo-Babylonian empire. Yet when I last played as them I was able to complete nearly all the UHVs with just 1 city.

 

[Enyavar]

The scope of the world map doesn't allow for these empires.

I have bemoaned it before, but really Hammurapi ruled over (west) eastern Syria, that is 1E of Tyre, (north) Mesopotamia (Ninive) and (south) Sumer. That doesn't include Shush/Susa (east). His empire lasted 3 turns (60 years). The neo-babylonian empire lasted again 100 years (5 or 6 turns), and we can add Tyre and Jerusalem do the extents. All other times, Babylon-city was only controlling Babylonia and often also Sumeria. As it is, Babylon is overrepresented with one overlarge city.
Niniveh and Assur were the powerful rivals to the North, and the Hittites were another powerful civilization for centuries. Yet even their empires are hardly worth more than two cities within this game and (old) worldmap. Elam (Shush) is properly represented as independent all the time until Persia starts.

And don't let me start about misrepresentation of Egypt, they should start with two settlers and/or a worker and finish the pyramids in their first twenty turns.

 

[Leoreth]

Yeah, I read this ask with the new map already in mind. Where it's more feasible to represent empires originating from Mesopotamia. I just think that not all UHVs can represent all aspects of a civ's history, and sometimes focused UHVs are better than those who have a little bit of everything. Maybe in the future an Assyrian civ can represent the more militaristic history of ancient Mesopotamia.

 

[Edmund Ironside]

Maybe in the future an Assyrian civ can represent the more militaristic history of ancient Mesopotamia.

Hmmmm, is this an official teaser that Assyria are one of the new civs planned to be added in a future DOC release!?

His empire lasted 3 turns (60 years). The neo-babylonian empire lasted again 100 years (5 or 6 turns)

Well for me its not so much about realism as game play. I'm not one of these people who feels every minute detail in history needs to be included in DOC. I just thought a UHV or 2 for Babylonians that encouraged a bit more expansive play would both more reflect their mentality and also make for a more fun game for them.
I thought I would just throw it out there in case the UHVs are reviewed when the new map is released.

 

[Leoreth]

There are no concrete plans to add any civ to the game but a lot of civs have been discussed here and I have thought of a lot more so if you count that as planned then it is planned to the point where being planned doesn't mean much

As for the UHVs, the new map basically impacts all existing UHVs anyway. Conquest based ones are the most obvious, but even all other goals depend on your economic capabilities which again are tuned to what the current map provides, so they all need to be revised in their entirety. Many goals are also chosen because of limitations of the current map that may no longer exist, so maybe they will be replaced. But I don't think the map will change the overall theming of the goals (e.g. Babylonia being culture/population/tech).

 

[Cosmos1985]

I hope we wont ever see a DOC release on the planned new expanded map. It will be the end of both my professional and social life.

 

[Leoreth]

Sometimes I feel like it requires the death of mine to get there.

 

[cmakk1012]

I’m concerned it’ll melt my computer in the last era or two.