Suggestions and Requests

[Leoreth]

why would you make me see this

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

Why would you reply right away, now I missed my chance of posting a "mods are asleep, post ponies" meme.

 

[Leoreth]

mods are rarely asleep (unfortunately)

 

[1SDANi]

mods are rarely asleep (unfortunately)

Mods are awake, post ponies?

 

[Leoreth]

No!

 

[Bernd-das-Brot]

Suggestion Nr. 1:

I think it would better fit the scope of the mod if you could enter the sea tiles of other civs in peace time. In war times ships should still be stopped after entering enemy zones to make naval invasions a bit harder for the human player. And DoW leads to be thrown out of foreign culture even on sea tiles.

Unpassable Channel (blocked by english or french culture) and the like are strange.

Suggestion Nr. 2:

Would it be possible to split open borders for trade and military units?

Open borders to foreign nations armies are historically strange: Allowing foreign merchants in your country is one thing, let whole armies pass your lands another. And the ease to move units around often lead to unwanted AI behaviour, like France killing all its units on independent Kiev or a baltic city, or stacks of units wandering somewhere trying to conquer any independent far away from their core.

So maybe allow traveling of foreign lands with military units only with defense pact or at least a common war enemy. And allow scouts and perhaps civilians to enter with trade allowed.

 

[Leoreth]

Yeah, that's where I'd like to go at some point. History Rewritten is developing a more tiered idea of trade and military agreements right now that I would like to adapt once complete.

 

[Bernd-das-Brot]

Great to know this coming someday.

 

[hnrysml]

I was thinking yesterday about health/unhealth, and how it can be a poor representation of some elements of pollution, power generation, and ecology.
For example a hydroelectric plant doesn't really generate pollution irl, but some have caused the physical and environmental devastation of the regions they are built in, and are a leading extinction threat to many river and lake species. A coal plant irl causes massive amounts of pollution but rarely does this affect the health of the city to which it supplies power, to most accurately represent the effect in DoC (though it wouldn't be good for gameplay and i'm not suggesting this change) would be to have a coal plant greatly harm the yields of a tile adjacent to a city.
What this has me thinking is about the potential for in a split in the health system so that pollution, especially in regards to CO2 pollution, is separate to health.
I would like to know people's ideas or thoughts, of course this has likely been suggested before and I haven't seen it or forgotten.

 

[Oblivionyx]

What would pollution be doing differently from the current system of unhealthiness?

 

[TJDowling]

Okay, so it occurred to me. Why do we HAVE to build something in every city? Why can't we choose to build nothing? Yes you can build science, culture or commerce if you don't really want to build anything else but isn't in possible in reality to have an entirely unproductive region? Now obviously I came to the conclusion that this isn't an option because there is no incentive to do so. You would just have expensive settlements draining the coffers and offering nothing in return but colonies weren't always productive, at least not to themselves.

But, bear with me. What if non-core cities could build food (or give food maybe as a percentage of excess food), or build gold or hammers to core settlements? Now on the one hand you lose the ability to improve your non-core cities for the duration that you are building for the core but on the other hand you can give a modest boost to the core when needed. Say you want to build a wonder quickly but don't have an Great Engineer, you can build hammers in your non-core cities to boost core production.

Benefits:
-Allows you to strengthen and boost your core in times of war/emergency
-can selectively use colonies to complete wonders/projects in core territory by building hammers (this would more accurately reflect wonders and projects that were the efforts of entire nations).
-if you can build/transfer food for the core it can temporarily increase stability
-instead of just building gold on top of the current income (as it is now) you could build gold that can be distributed to core cities that have markets/banks/stock exchanges which increase the gold output

Drawbacks:
-It weakens your non-core settlements and temporarily increases unhappiness there.
-Maybe increases likelihood of collapse to core (if that's still in the game) or colonies declaring independence, especially if food is transferred and unhappiness high.
-if you can build food for the core it decreases population and thus productivity of non-core settlements even further

I think it pretty accurately models certain aspects of colonial history. It is widely understood that England's industrial revolution occurred because of the influx of wealth, resources and food from its colonies and largely at the expense of its colonies. I'm not sure how this could be modelled in order to prevent it from making the core unreasonably strong and without messing with stability too much (the food idea is obviously a stability concern) but I think if the benefits were modest enough it could be made into a reasonable question. Obviously it shouldn't be a 1:1 transfer. You have 20 hammers in non-core city A you get 20 hammers divided between core cities. It should probably be a percentage of the total output which would account for distance, bureaucratic losses, etc. But if it's balanced right it could be cool "Should I build up this colony, or should I exploit it?" Maybe a tile penalty could be applied to colonies that are being exploited in this way? Also, civics could modify the variables. For example maybe colonialism boosts the benefits but increases unhappiness. Maybe nationalism decreases the happiness penalty... and so on.

 

[Enyavar]

What if non-core cities could build food (or give food maybe as a percentage of excess food), or build gold or hammers to core settlements?

I think your system there is too complicated but the general thought is right. Civ 3 had caravans that could provide hammers when disassembled in other cities.

Finish a wonder in 1 turn? Easy, just build 10 caravans and send them to your city right when the new tech comes out...
Which is NOT what I want. So they need to decay if not used, and they need to be national units, like missionaries.

But let's say that for the cost of x hammers, you can build product shipments that are worth half x hammers. (with guilds: enabled, cost 100 worth 50. With logistics: 150 to 75. Machine Tools: 200 to 100. Assembly line: 250 cost for 150 worth. Final stages could be with robotics/automation.)
For each turn these shipments are underway, they lose 5 hammers of their worth. Using them to build a wonder makes them only half their worth.
So they could both represent colonies supporting core as well as the other way around.

Also, food shipments. You have to build a shipment for say, 50 hammers (surplus food goes right in), and then fill it with 50 food from the cities granaries. Off it goes to feed your starving cities elsewhere. I never understood why we "open our foodstores" to help other civs, but our own cities are left starving. And Rome grew big on grain shipments from Egypt. That said, maybe enable a 20 food version for ye olde classical times and the 50 food version with refridgeration.

And for what it's worth, trade shipments could also be nice. Enabled with economics, you build a 100 hammer unit that conducts a trade mission like a 1/10th great merchant, or something. (is it just me? I am never using GMs for trade missions if I can use them for stock exchanges)
This could be implemented in UHV goals of trade orientated civs as well. The Tamils come to mind, who could get their unique unit with that ability.

 

[JHLee]

How about supply crawlers that were present in Alpha Centauri?
You could build a crawler, send an settle it on a high yield plot outside of the city radius, and add that yield to the city every turn.

 

[AOS9001]

What this has me thinking is about the potential for in a split in the health system so that pollution, especially in regards to CO2 pollution, is separate to health.
I would like to know people's ideas or thoughts, of course this has likely been suggested before and I haven't seen it or forgotten.

Here's an idea that just came to me. I don't know how functional it would be or how difficult it would be to implement, but here's the gist of it:
Pollution-producing buildings contribute a number of pollution points to a global pool each turn (or every few turns). As the pollution point pool grows, you get closer to crossing global climate change thresholds. As more countries industrialize, more points add to the pool, and you start hitting the thresholds about ~150 years after industrialization really kicks off. Deserts start expanding, one tile islands might start submerging, extreme weather events become more common, resources disappear (like fish or deer), you might even have migration events to deal with as you please (foreign culture and population boost like immigrants for America, or build a wall and keep your culture pure, or whatever). The problem is, most of this stuff hasn't happened IRL yet besides the resource loss and extreme weather events, so it's all speculative and I don't know if that's a place the developer wants to take this mod. Food for thought.

Also, food shipments. You have to build a shipment for say, 50 hammers (surplus food goes right in), and then fill it with 50 food from the cities granaries. Off it goes to feed your starving cities elsewhere. I never understood why we "open our foodstores" to help other civs, but our own cities are left starving. And Rome grew big on grain shipments from Egypt. That said, maybe enable a 20 food version for ye olde classical times and the 50 food version with refridgeration.

That sounds like a great idea. I understand it as sending an amount of food to a city, and the city uses this added food to grow beyond its size limit, so if you don't keep getting shipments, the city starves and shrinks (like Rome in the 6th century or Germany/Austria-Hungary in WWI or Japan in WWII).

 

[adhiraj.bose]

Can the pagan victory condition of 15 temples be toned down ?

 

[Oblivionyx]

one tile islands might start submerging

This seems a bit much. Imagine if Portugal players suddenly lost Ponta Delgada... there goes a third of your core population...

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

This seems a bit much. Imagine if Portugal players suddenly lost Ponta Delgada... there goes a third of your core population...

Hate to break it to you, but the way things are going in real life just about everyone is going to lose a third of their core population due to climate change.

 

[AOS9001]

This seems a bit much. Imagine if Portugal players suddenly lost Ponta Delgada... there goes a third of your core population...

Yeah, it's pretty rough. Maybe too rough for this game, but there's entire island nations that will likely disappear this century, so... yeah. But climate change as a global end-game crisis you can either tackle together or ignore for short-term economic gains could be pretty neat, I think. But as I said in my prior post, this may be beyond the scope of this mod. We're about historical victories here, after all, not the days to come.

On another note, so that's what Ponta Delgada is useful for. I don't like cities with no production and no commerce, Ponta Delgada's got none. I think it deserves a sugar or a wine resource considering the history of the Azores.

 

[Leoreth]

Well if you're Portugal, Ponta Delgada is surrounded by 2F3C tiles which isn't the worst I'd say.

 

[hnrysml]

I think any island loss mechanic would be great. The loss of several island groups such as the Solomon Islands, Maldives, and Micronesia are all but guaranteed for the next century or so. However, I think it's important that we consider how the world map in this mod really is meant to represent the actual world and it's not rfc rand or such, and so it can't be just any one tile islands that are susceptible to being submerged.. after all, the Azores and Cabo Verde, for example, represented by flatland tiles, actually have peaks over 2.5km. The islands that are able to be affected by such a mechanic (which would be most fun if randomised) should be prescribed.